On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted, who
relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.Â* There's
a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to
shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because some
overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

I felt I had an obligation to serve my country. You?

On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned to
shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because
some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?

I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You?

No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but
that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical,
I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board,
other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address
info I sent.

On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral
who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned
to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because
some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?


I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You?

No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but
that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical,
I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board,
other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address
info I sent.

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country. At least
that's honest.

On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/


They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral
who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned
to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because
some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?


I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You?

No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but
that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical,
I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board,
other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address
info I sent.

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country. At least
that's honest.





Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex.
I don’t believe it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a
war zone and actually saw combat.

On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard admiral
who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned
to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because
some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?


I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You?

No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but
that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction physical,
I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board,
other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address
info I sent.

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least
that's honest.





Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial
complex.
I don’t believeÂ* it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a
war zone and actually saw combat.


Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I
did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my
draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have
shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help
the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and
promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering
corporations, but I didn't think much about that at the time.

On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval officers
regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral
who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with
us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons, INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned
to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because
some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why
would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?


I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You?

No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but
that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction
physical,
I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board,
other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of address
info I sent.

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least
that's honest.





Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial
complex.
I don’t believeÂ* it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in
a war zone and actually saw combat.


Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I
did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my
draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have
shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help
the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and
promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering
corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the time.



Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt
no obligation to serve your country then and obviously have never felt
otherwise since.

That's your right. Others feel differently.

The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need
to find some.

On 8/24/17 7:16 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/24/2017 7:07 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/24/17 7:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:14 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:57 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 8:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 8:00 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 6:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 5:36 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/23/17 12:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/23/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
This article offers some interesting insights into some of the
issues
behind the recent naval collisions:

http://gcaptain.com/separate-equal-look-officer-training-us-navy-merchant-marine/



They make the point that many, if not most, US naval
officers regard
sea duty as something that must be endured on the way to higher
rank,
as opposed to a career goal in and of itself.

My wife and I once met a recently promoted US Coast Guard
admiral
who
expressed exactly those sentiments in a conversation with
us.Â* We
were
surprised by both the attitude and the candor but that was
probably a
reflection of our inexperience with such things.



I don't know of anyone who was in the Navy, officer or enlisted,
who relished sea duty.


Then why sign up for it? One might think that if one is
signing up
for the navy, one relishes the idea of serving on a ship at sea.



Reason number one:Â* It was Navy or the Army.

Actually, the Navy is much, much more than just ships at sea.
There's a vast system for communications, aircraft squadrons,
INTEL
facilities, administration, logistics and supply facilities that
support the mission of the Navy and the fleet.Â*Â* I don't know the
breakdown butÂ* I believe that far more Navy personnel are assigned
to shore duty stations at any one time than assigned to ships.

Typically, the rotation is three years of sea duty and then three
years of shore duty.Â* But it's more complicated than that because
some overseas shore duty may be counted as sea duty for rotational
purposes. I was actually on ships for three years but had two
tours
overseas that also counted as sea duty.Â* My only duty that did not
count as sea duty was time in schools and my last duty station in
Annapolis.





Yeah, I know the navy is more than just ships at sea, but...why
would
you join the navy unless you were into ships at sea?


I felt I had an obligation to serve my country.Â* You?

No. I had a passing interest in going to the Coast Guard Academy, but
that passed. Had I been ordered to report for a pre-induction
physical,
I might have signed up, but I never heard from my local draft board,
other than getting the signed USPS receipts from the change of
address
info I sent.

So "no" means you felt no obligation to serve your country.Â* At least
that's honest.





Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial
complex.
I don’t believeÂ* it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in
a war zone and actually saw combat.


Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I
did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept
my draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would
have shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I
didn't help the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce
billets and promotions, and put profits into the coffers of
war-mongering corporations,Â* but I didn't think much about that at the
time.



Going back to the original point ... your answer is still, No, you felt
no obligation to serve your countryÂ* then and obviously have never felt
otherwise since.

That's your right.Â* Others feel differently.

The rest of your BS are just excuses, typical of those who feel a need
to find some.



Oh, please. If it makes you feel happier to rationalize the assistance
you gave to the military-industrial complex that was involved in killing
hundreds of thousands of SE Asians, hey, go for it. Nothing this country
did in the war against Vietnam served our country.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:07:27 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:


Yeah, I wasn't an enabler, either. You're making more of this than I
did, as usual. I did what the law required...I registered and I kept my
draft board aware of my address. If I had been drafted, I would have
shown up. I wasn't, so I didn't. In retrospect, I am happy I didn't help
the military-industrial complex kill SE Asians, produce billets and
promotions, and put profits into the coffers of war-mongering
corporations, but I didn't think much about that at the time.

You wanted us to support the war monger Hillary Clinton who wanted to
kill more South Asians, Persians and Arabs.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex.
I don’t believe it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a
war zone and actually saw combat.


And if you were in the navy or air force the percentage was even lower
than that. Most of the "Vietnam" air force guys were in support bases
in Thailand, Japan or some other place pretty far away. I think the
majority of the air force was in SAC, MAC or some other duty, nowhere
near SE Asia.
The only navy guys actually in country were SEALs or brown water navy
guys along with the Coast Guard running up the rivers. That is what I
tried for ... twice. I was young and dumb I guess.

wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:00:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Going to SE Asia to kill SE Asians served the military-industrial complex.
I don’t believe it served the country.


Over nine million people served on active military duty during the
Vietnam War.

Of that nine million, one to one and a half million were stationed in a
war zone and actually saw combat.


And if you were in the navy or air force the percentage was even lower
than that. Most of the "Vietnam" air force guys were in support bases
in Thailand, Japan or some other place pretty far away. I think the
majority of the air force was in SAC, MAC or some other duty, nowhere
near SE Asia.
The only navy guys actually in country were SEALs or brown water navy
guys along with the Coast Guard running up the rivers. That is what I
tried for ... twice. I was young and dumb I guess.



Seabees were also in Vietnam. My brother spent two tours building
facilities at China Beach. Is an Agent Orange vet now.