Hi Geoff,

This is probably beating a dead horse, but here goes.

Your anti-sea-lawyer solution won't work. The definition of "mark" says,
"An object the sailing instructions require a boat to leave on a
specified side . . . ." There is no option to allow a "mark" to have
anything but ONE specified side. Changing definitions is not allowed.
Rule 28.1 could be changed to modify "sailing the course", but it would
need to avoid the use of "mark". Sounds like a real mess.

Mid-course start/finish lines can be useful in several situations.
However, it is necessary to either leave the line "open" or jump through
a bunch of hoops in the SI's to try to "close" the line.

Regards,
Gene Fuller



R. G. Newbury wrote:
A closed line only makes sense where the line lies between the
windward and leeward marks. To avoid the problem entirely, just ensure
that leeward mark is either upwind of the line, level with the line,
or uses the non-RC end as the leeward mark. However, it is easier to
separate boats by just dropping a finish mark a short distance to
starboard (usually) of the RC boat. If any line needs to be 'closed'
it can be that one, unless your conditions are such that you may still
be starting boats while prior starters may be transiting the area
(presuming you still have the leeward mark to leeward of the line).

If all this fails or cannot be done, there is one method which will
beat the sea-lawyers:

You must define each non-starting/finishing leg as requiring that BOTH
of the RC and the Start mark must be left, (at the helmsman's option)
either to port or to starboard.
'... from mark 3 to mark 4 leaving both of mark 1 and the Race
Committee vessel to starboard, or both of mark 1 and the Race
Committee vessel to port...'

This allows 'un-stringing' in case of error and protest ("did not
string") in case of failure.

In the Toronto area we gave up on this sort of idiocy about 20 years
ago....It is MUCH simpler to restructure things to completely obviate
any need for.

Geoff

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:54:00 UTC, Gene Fuller
wrote:

Hi Geoff,

This is probably beating a dead horse, but here goes.

Your anti-sea-lawyer solution won't work. The definition of "mark" says,
"An object the sailing instructions require a boat to leave on a
specified side . . . ." There is no option to allow a "mark" to have
anything but ONE specified side. Changing definitions is not allowed.
Rule 28.1 could be changed to modify "sailing the course", but it would
need to avoid the use of "mark". Sounds like a real mess.


Well, it will always have to be a 'mark' because the we are requiring
it to be left on a specified side.. And my formulation does not change
the definition, only the manner in which the specified side is
determined. And that is quite clear.
There is nothing in the rules which requires that a mark have only one
'side' *under all circumstances*. The instructions can require that a
mark may have a differing required side under differing circumstances.
In this case, the required side is that side chosen by the helmsman
which leaves both marks on the same side. In effect, the helmsman
specifies the side, for both marks.

Your interpretation would make it impossible to allow yachts to round
any group of marks in either direction, and would make it impossible
to stage a race from a start to and around an island, *in either
direction* as in one direction the island would be left to port, and
in the other, to starboard.


Mid-course start/finish lines can be useful in several situations.
However, it is necessary to either leave the line "open" or jump through
a bunch of hoops in the SI's to try to "close" the line.

I have never been able to figure out any of those 'useful' situations.
Even with fixed mark courses, it is simpler to set the line at the
leeward end of things, or just start at one point and finish
elsewhere. Most excuses for using the mid course setup amount to a
lack of RC capabilities (boats, marks etc) which are reasonably
avoidable or surmountable. If they can set up in the middle they can
do so at the bottom. If there is no working space at the bottom, then
start at the middle, but do not attempt to finish there! Then there
is no start line after the start and therefor no problem.

But closed midcourse start/finishes are just a problem waiting to
happen and should not be used. Anyway, mid-course lines rarely easily
handle any sort of wind shift leading to lousy racing... And RC's do
not set out with the intention of providing lousy races... well at
least we certainly hope so! VBG

Geoff