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Sirius/XM
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: On 8/16/17 3:33 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 13:20:06 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:52:11 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: I don't mind the commercials if I am listening to a commercial radio or TV station...the commercials pay the bills. Without advertising, every piece of 20-year-old stuff you own would have been more expensive. Bull****. If you compare the price of heavily advertised products to products that seldom advertise, the advertised product is always more. Someone needs to pay for those ads and it is not like we would stop using toilet paper if they did't have that bear on TV telling us to. Another example is beer. Most people could not tell the difference between Budweiser and Busch if it was served in a glass. Both come from the same brewery, using essentially the same ingredients but the Bud is a couple bucks more expensive, because of that frog. Sell that to your libertarian buddies. I know better. What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. === It depends on the product or service. Yes, if advertising increases market share and leads to economy of scale (assuming the savings get passed along), no otherwise. In the case of Budweiser it has led to increased market share for an inferior product, at no obvious cost benefit. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Sirius/XM
On 8/16/2017 5:29 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:52:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 3:30 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:56:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 11:11 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:23:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I have a USB powered hard drive that some friends put together for my birthday that has just about every group, band and song ever recorded. I think it's a 200 Gig drive and it's just about full. I listen to it once in a great while. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around this. I have a little over 30 gig of music and that is more than 6000 songs. That includes some I have never and probably never will hear. I can't imagine what you could have that gets you up to 200 gig and that you have actually listened to 40,000 songs. That is about 200,000 minutes of music. (3300 hours). If you started playing that list it would take 4 1/2 months going 24/7. I hope you have clipped out much smaller subsets of this catalog to make it useful. How do you manage a list like this? It does make you and Harry much more prolific pirates than me and I thought I was Black Beard. (mostly gray now) ;-) The songs on the hard drive is a collection that my luthier/lawyer friend has been putting together all his mature life. He played in a garage band in the mid-sixties and his group had a "hit" that made it to number 80 on the charts. Name of the band was "The Nightcrawlers" from Daytona Beach, FL. He has them all arranged in folders by band/group with at least one album ... often several for each. Starts with 40's Big Band stuff, the 50's, 60's and 70's where it sorta dies off although there are some from the 80's. I don't think I've listened to 10 or 20 percent of what's on the disk. It's fun to browse through it though and find songs I haven't heard in years. Some are fairly rare recordings that never made the charts. Once in a while I'll hook it up to my computer (used to use the little XP machine I've mentioned) and create a playlist from the drive. It may be worth getting a thumb drive, 8g is usually plenty and putting your favorites out there. Plug that into your car player and you may never turn the radio on again. I've been meaning to try plugging in the hard drive my lawyer friend gave me into one of the USB ports in the Canyon. I don't know if it will work or how it will be displayed on the truck's screen (assuming it will). === Not sure but I'd guess the USB ports are jusr for charging cell phones and the like. Owner's manual would tell you if they could be used as an aux source. Most new vehicles can be linked to your phone via Blue Tooth and you can play music that way. Some older cars have a 3mm aux jack hidden away somewhere - my wife's M-B has one in the glove compartment. If you don't want to store MP3s on your phone you can always bring up Pandora for free - much better choices and audio quality than Sirius/XM in my opinion. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com I just looked it up. At first I thought I could do it. The manual says: "A USB mass storage device can be connected to the USB port." But three sentences later it says: "Hard disk drives are not supported." Then it says: To play a USB device: Connect the USB. Press the MEDIA button until the connected device is shown. While the USB source is active, press the corresponding faceplate button for the icons on the screen to operate USB function. USB Menu Press the MENU knob to display the USB menu and the following may display: Browse : Select to display the files and folders on the USB device. I might try it anyway. I don't think it will hurt anything. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/16/17 4:17 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 3:05:51 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:46:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: FM is pretty much line of sight. I know that even here in Florida where there are no real hills FM is tough. On a clear night I can get the FM station out of Marathon (Fl Keys) but that is across the water about 100 miles. I start losing the Tampa stations and FT Myers stations about 70 miles away. There is a dead zone around Venice where I don't get either of them. Now if you are talking AM, the clear channel 50KW stations can be heard 1000 miles away at night. There used to only be a handful of them but the last time I looked there are a **** load of them. I guess as AM popularity faded, they started allowing more big ones. Unfortunately it seems most AM is either sports, news or Spanish. HD FM range is much less than regular FM. WBZ in Boston is one of the original clear channel stations. I picked it up in Denver Colorado at night. Obviously skip. We were AM DXers when I was a kid ... sort of. I had a 100' long wire antenna out back, connected to a 5 bottle radio and we could pick up WLS WBZ and WOWO just about every night. There were only about 5 or 6 clear channel stations then and the ones out west were usually not available to us. I got started after being in Lake of the Ozarks with the Teamsters and being introduced to Dick Biondi by the locals. I was thrilled to get him on my radio in DC. I have picked WLS in my car driving down I-95 in the middle of the night but it was far from 5X5. I used to get WLS in SC at night. Conditions had to be right. Years ago I had the biggest TV antenna Channel Master made on a rotor at the top of a ~30ft pole. After midnight I could turn it towards Atlanta and pick up WKLS 96 Rock and it was listenable. That was nearly 200 miles away. When I was growing up in New Haven, we had Channel 8, WNHC, the local ABC affiliate. If you wanted more than that, you had a switch on the back of your TV to switch to another antenna that was aimed towards New York City, from which you could get very good reception of New York stations, including Channel 2 (CBS), Channel 4 (NBC) Channel 5 (Dumont), Channel 7 (ABC), Channel 9 (WOR), Channel 11 (WPIX) and Channel 13 (forget the affiliation). Channel 3 was a Hartford station and CBS affiliate. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/16/2017 7:45 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: On 8/16/2017 5:29 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:52:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 3:30 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:56:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 11:11 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:23:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I have a USB powered hard drive that some friends put together for my birthday that has just about every group, band and song ever recorded. I think it's a 200 Gig drive and it's just about full. I listen to it once in a great while. I really have a hard time wrapping my head around this. I have a little over 30 gig of music and that is more than 6000 songs. That includes some I have never and probably never will hear. I can't imagine what you could have that gets you up to 200 gig and that you have actually listened to 40,000 songs. That is about 200,000 minutes of music. (3300 hours). If you started playing that list it would take 4 1/2 months going 24/7. I hope you have clipped out much smaller subsets of this catalog to make it useful. How do you manage a list like this? It does make you and Harry much more prolific pirates than me and I thought I was Black Beard. (mostly gray now) ;-) The songs on the hard drive is a collection that my luthier/lawyer friend has been putting together all his mature life. He played in a garage band in the mid-sixties and his group had a "hit" that made it to number 80 on the charts. Name of the band was "The Nightcrawlers" from Daytona Beach, FL. He has them all arranged in folders by band/group with at least one album ... often several for each. Starts with 40's Big Band stuff, the 50's, 60's and 70's where it sorta dies off although there are some from the 80's. I don't think I've listened to 10 or 20 percent of what's on the disk. It's fun to browse through it though and find songs I haven't heard in years. Some are fairly rare recordings that never made the charts. Once in a while I'll hook it up to my computer (used to use the little XP machine I've mentioned) and create a playlist from the drive. It may be worth getting a thumb drive, 8g is usually plenty and putting your favorites out there. Plug that into your car player and you may never turn the radio on again. I've been meaning to try plugging in the hard drive my lawyer friend gave me into one of the USB ports in the Canyon. I don't know if it will work or how it will be displayed on the truck's screen (assuming it will). === Not sure but I'd guess the USB ports are jusr for charging cell phones and the like. Owner's manual would tell you if they could be used as an aux source. Most new vehicles can be linked to your phone via Blue Tooth and you can play music that way. Some older cars have a 3mm aux jack hidden away somewhere - my wife's M-B has one in the glove compartment. If you don't want to store MP3s on your phone you can always bring up Pandora for free - much better choices and audio quality than Sirius/XM in my opinion. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com I just looked it up. At first I thought I could do it. The manual says: "A USB mass storage device can be connected to the USB port." But three sentences later it says: "Hard disk drives are not supported." Then it says: To play a USB device: Connect the USB. Press the MEDIA button until the connected device is shown. While the USB source is active, press the corresponding faceplate button for the icons on the screen to operate USB function. USB Menu Press the MENU knob to display the USB menu and the following may display: Browse : Select to display the files and folders on the USB device. I might try it anyway. I don't think it will hurt anything. How is the hard drive powered? USB powered. |
Sirius/XM
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. |
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On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:52:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: It may be worth getting a thumb drive, 8g is usually plenty and putting your favorites out there. Plug that into your car player and you may never turn the radio on again. I've been meaning to try plugging in the hard drive my lawyer friend gave me into one of the USB ports in the Canyon. I don't know if it will work or how it will be displayed on the truck's screen (assuming it will). It will work and you will be able to manipulate the files on the screen but with 30,000 songs out there it is pretty useless on the road. Better is just to make a subset of the songs you like on a thumb drive. You can put them in separate directories and select them a directory at a time or just play the whole drive, sequential or random. I have a few different drive images on separate thumbs that are easy to deal with. Then it is just a super sized cassette. You can also burn MP3s on a DVD and get 4.5 gig or so of music that will play on newer machines. On vacation we usually have a thumb drive of music I build for each trip but I have my laptop with the whole catalog if I change my mind. I also carry a couple of MP3 players for the plane to use with our sound canceling head sets. They are a lot smaller than a phone. My new ones are about the size of a pack of matches with far more capacity than I will ever fill. The LiON battery lasts for 30 hours or more. |
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On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:02:40 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: When I was growing up in New Haven, we had Channel 8, WNHC, the local ABC affiliate. If you wanted more than that, you had a switch on the back of your TV to switch to another antenna that was aimed towards New York City, from which you could get very good reception of New York stations, including Channel 2 (CBS), Channel 4 (NBC) Channel 5 (Dumont), Channel 7 (ABC), Channel 9 (WOR), Channel 11 (WPIX) and Channel 13 (forget the affiliation). Channel 3 was a Hartford station and CBS affiliate. DC had 4 WRC NBC 4, WTTG 5 Independent WMAL(later WJLA) ABC 7 WTOP CBS 9, Later they added WETA the PBS channel 3 and Ch 20 another independent. You could get 2, 11 and 13 from Baltimore but it was snowy and the same stuff as the 3 networks in DC had most of the time. If you put a big antenna on a pole with a rotor, you could spin around and get a Redskins game from Richmond (Ch 6) but it was not a very good picture. That was before they lifted the blackout ban. I remember when they came out with "Super TV" Channel 50, a subscription service. There was always someone hacking that signal. Originally they just buried the horizontal (vertical?) sync pulse in the sound track and that was trivial to hack. They it got more complicated. I had the first box but it wasn't worth it to chase it when they changed. By then I had a BetaMax (circa 75-6) and I was getting my movies on tape shortly after that. Originally it was just a few early Beta people swapping tapes around and then when the Beta 2 came out (77-8?) they started video clubs where you paid to rent movies, one way or another. Some had a big subscription rate with all you can eat included, others were pretty cheap to join and you paid per movie, |
Sirius/XM
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:07:14 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: On 8/16/17 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. "Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. " Think that through for a while and get back to us. I did and I stay with my original statement. People can charge more for products that get the false value presented in the ads. I repeat the example of Busch vs Budweiser. It is basically the same beer, they don't advertise Busch and it is $2 cheaper than Bud. |
Sirius/XM
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:03:22 -0400, wrote:
That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) === Generally production efficiency goes up with higher production volumes (economy of scale). So if you can grow your top line faster than the bottom, profits increase as does the possibility of decreasing prices. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:22:18 -0400,
wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:03:22 -0400, wrote: That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) === Generally production efficiency goes up with higher production volumes (economy of scale). So if you can grow your top line faster than the bottom, profits increase as does the possibility of decreasing prices. === Just re-read that and it's worded incorrectly. Should be: So if you can grow your top line faster than the cost of production, profits increase, and raises the possibility of decreasing prices. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Sirius/XM
On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:22:18 -0400,
wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:03:22 -0400, wrote: That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) === Generally production efficiency goes up with higher production volumes (economy of scale). So if you can grow your top line faster than the bottom, profits increase as does the possibility of decreasing prices. That assumes the ads generate enough more volume to bring on the extra volume and that economy of scale but you are still passing on that cost to the customer. The ad fairy is not leaving the extra money under your pillow. In an attempt to drag this back on point, how many times do I need to see/hear this ad before it stops being informative and just becomes a pain in the ass? I wasn't going to buy a magic pillow the first time I saw the ad and I am even less likely to buy one the 100th time I see it. (I feel the same way about politicians who call me on the phone or interrupt my TV show). If ads were so valuable to customers, why is there such a market for "ad free" services like satellite radio, HBO and the various media products like DVDs, streams and MP3s? I am sure Harry could see most of the movies he stores on his server on "free" ad based TV but he chooses to watch them without ads. Maybe that is how he got a legal copy that he could copy freely. He recorded it from broadcast TV with the ads. |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. |
Sirius/XM
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 1:22:23 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:03:22 -0400, wrote: That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) === Generally production efficiency goes up with higher production volumes (economy of scale). So if you can grow your top line faster than the bottom, profits increase as does the possibility of decreasing prices. While I certainly understand your point, I believe there are few examples of the price of an in-demand product's price being reduced. If a company creates a product and it takes off in the market (higher production volumes), that means it's selling well at the current price point and there would be no reason to reduce price (profit). About the only thing that would drive that would be a competitor who takes market share away from you based on lower price or better quality/value. |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote: On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 1:22:23 AM UTC-4, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:03:22 -0400, wrote: That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) === Generally production efficiency goes up with higher production volumes (economy of scale). So if you can grow your top line faster than the bottom, profits increase as does the possibility of decreasing prices. While I certainly understand your point, I believe there are few examples of the price of an in-demand product's price being reduced. If a company creates a product and it takes off in the market (higher production volumes), that means it's selling well at the current price point and there would be no reason to reduce price (profit). About the only thing that would drive that would be a competitor who takes market share away from you based on lower price or better quality/value. There is no better example of that than the highly advertised drugs. The only time the price goes down is after patents expire and there is a generic ... that is not advertised at all. They still continue with the ads and those branded drugs continue to be priced much higher than the generic, even though they are chemically identical. Now let's see Harry defend the drug companies ;-) |
Sirius/XM
On 8/17/2017 11:03 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:22:18 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:03:22 -0400, wrote: That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) === Generally production efficiency goes up with higher production volumes (economy of scale). So if you can grow your top line faster than the bottom, profits increase as does the possibility of decreasing prices. That assumes the ads generate enough more volume to bring on the extra volume and that economy of scale but you are still passing on that cost to the customer. The ad fairy is not leaving the extra money under your pillow. In an attempt to drag this back on point, how many times do I need to see/hear this ad before it stops being informative and just becomes a pain in the ass? I wasn't going to buy a magic pillow the first time I saw the ad and I am even less likely to buy one the 100th time I see it. (I feel the same way about politicians who call me on the phone or interrupt my TV show). If ads were so valuable to customers, why is there such a market for "ad free" services like satellite radio, HBO and the various media products like DVDs, streams and MP3s? I am sure Harry could see most of the movies he stores on his server on "free" ad based TV but he chooses to watch them without ads. Maybe that is how he got a legal copy that he could copy freely. He recorded it from broadcast TV with the ads. Those "magic pillows" are pretty good. I bought one to try out at Bed, Bath and Beyond. I like it. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. |
Sirius/XM
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 2:22:28 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. I think it's because of the type of business you had... you weren't making thousands of the same gadget for consumer use, you were bidding on commercial projects via RFPs (if I understand correctly what you've previously described). The company I work for operates in a similar manner. We build a "standard" product that is used by various industries and organizations, but nearly without exception this kind of stuff is purchased by competitive RFP/RFQ. We have a standard price for the hardware and software that can be discounted in certain cases (like when selling through a dealer), but the only wiggle room is in professional services and NRE (non-recurring engineering). Of course the prices are set to make a profit, and there have been a couple of small increases over the past few years to cover rising costs. In some cases we elect to discount the bid in order to win the business, always mindful that we need to keep the payroll and bills paid and the doors open. We used to give away support for free, but in recent years we've had to go to a yearly maintenance fee for support. It cost a lot to feed an engineering staff of ~75 people. The end product is mostly software now. Our advertising costs are mainly trade shows and a website, with occasional ads and sponsorship in trade magazines. The cost of running the business and providing a profit to the owners is built into the price of the goods. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/17/2017 3:16 PM, Its Me wrote:
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 2:22:28 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. I think it's because of the type of business you had... you weren't making thousands of the same gadget for consumer use, you were bidding on commercial projects via RFPs (if I understand correctly what you've previously described). The company I work for operates in a similar manner. We build a "standard" product that is used by various industries and organizations, but nearly without exception this kind of stuff is purchased by competitive RFP/RFQ. We have a standard price for the hardware and software that can be discounted in certain cases (like when selling through a dealer), but the only wiggle room is in professional services and NRE (non-recurring engineering). Of course the prices are set to make a profit, and there have been a couple of small increases over the past few years to cover rising costs. In some cases we elect to discount the bid in order to win the business, always mindful that we need to keep the payroll and bills paid and the doors open. We used to give away support for free, but in recent years we've had to go to a yearly maintenance fee for support. It cost a lot to feed an engineering staff of ~75 people. The end product is mostly software now. Our advertising costs are mainly trade shows and a website, with occasional ads and sponsorship in trade magazines. The cost of running the business and providing a profit to the owners is built into the price of the goods. My business was similar but probably not as sophisticated from a pricing point of view. It was really two business areas ... the design an fabrication of large stainless vacuum vessels and the electronics/software control systems that performed the "process" within the vacuum vessels. We could design many standard components and parts and gain the benefit of non-recurring engineering in future systems but the overall configuration and controls were mostly custom for each project. That's why the "not invented here" syndrome that seems to affect mechanical engineers and designers used to **** me off. Every time they decided they had a better mousetrap it cost the company money. |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:22:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. In the end, all costs were passed on to your customers or it was just an expensive hobby. You might have robbed Peter to pay Paul but between them they paid your bills. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/17/17 2:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. Sorry, fellas, but this is another of those hilarious discussions. Keep on keeping on. |
Sirius/XM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 18:32:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: Sorry, fellas, but this is another of those hilarious discussions. Keep on keeping on. I think the most salient point would be comparing heavily advertised drugs to generics. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/17/2017 6:32 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/17/17 2:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. Sorry, fellas, but this is another of those hilarious discussions. Keep on keeping on. You're right. I was unable to obtain the success you have in business. Maybe it's because I never kissed any politician's ass. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/17 6:42 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/17/2017 6:32 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/17/17 2:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. Sorry, fellas, but this is another of those hilarious discussions. Keep on keeping on. You're right. I was unable to obtain the success you have in business. Maybe it's because I never kissed any politician's ass. The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/18/17 6:42 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/17/2017 6:32 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/17/17 2:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/17/2017 11:06 AM, wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:00:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/17/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 21:49:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:02 PM, wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:34:43 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: What part is wrong? BTW that is not a libertarian issue at all but I know it is your go to brain fart Your belief that advertising does not lower prices for products and services. How does that work? I add a large line to my expense column and somehow I can lower prices and still make a profit. It is clear you never actually looked at a P&L statement or owned a business. Ads may generate more business but it is still a cost of doing business that gets passed on to the customer. That's not always the case Greg. Advertising can simply be to increase market share ... or simply compete for business in the first place. The idea that all business costs are "passed on" to the customer is simply not true. Who pays them? If you are not covering your expenses with your revenue you are on the fast track to bankruptcy court. (or you are the government) If you are profitable with your existing business, some of those profits can be re-invested in advertising to increase your market share. In some businesses margins may have to be cut simply to get a contract to begin with. Yes, if you can't cover your overall cost of doing business long term you will eventually go bankrupt but the point I am making is that costs are not necessary "passed on" to the customer as you keep repeating. It depends on the type of business. If I had tried to increase my margins in order to pay for start up costs, advertising and other non-direct expenses, the number of contracts I received would have suffered. It's called competition and in my business it was primarily evaluated on technical responsiveness to the RFQ, price and delivery schedule. In time reputation also became a major factor. In the early days I took some contracts at break-even just to get the company recognized, "in the door" and eligible for future contracts. I didn't always break even either. One hick-up in the project and I'd lose money. You have to have a long-term plan and goal although I don't believe in formal one or five year "business plans". They are for investors, not the business owner or person who is actually running the company. I never borrowed money or even had a bank line. I learned that lesson from watching another person try to build a company using "other people's money". He ended up in bankruptcy and investors and vendors got hurt. All growth in my company was organic with the exception of one person who wanted "in" badly and bought himself a 10 percent equity position. He was a tremendous asset, holding two Phd's in physics and helped get the company a lot of exposure. Otherwise, I relied on technical competence, delivering what was promised and earning repeat business. Growth, margins and the rest took care of themselves. I've often thought about businesses and what I believe to be some of the mistakes people make. My experience isn't typical, for sure, and it was not the management of a fully mature, on-going, typical business where the scorecard are the P&L statements or quarterly returns. If I made some money on a project I invested it into the company's growth. I never paid myself a big fat salary. My goal was always to create something of eventual value to someone else and it paid off. Eventually all of that cost was passed on to the customer. You just had enough "bank" to eat it during your start up. I don't know how you figure that but so be it. In the business I was in you didn't have the luxury of passing on any and all costs other than maybe increasing prices somewhat annually or so. Some projects we made a nice profit. Others not so much. Sorry, fellas, but this is another of those hilarious discussions. Keep on keeping on. You're right. I was unable to obtain the success you have in business. Maybe it's because I never kissed any politician's ass. The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. |
Sirius/XM
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:34:57 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. He doesn't understand how RFPs work... or even businesses for that matter. We've had government contracts. In every case, the only contact we had with *anyone* until after it was awarded was to send multiple copies of our proposal to a specific address. You either requested, in writing, the RFP or downloaded it from a site. I think he's confusing government contract with *union* contracts. :) |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/2017 9:18 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:34:57 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. He doesn't understand how RFPs work... or even businesses for that matter. We've had government contracts. In every case, the only contact we had with *anyone* until after it was awarded was to send multiple copies of our proposal to a specific address. You either requested, in writing, the RFP or downloaded it from a site. I think he's confusing government contract with *union* contracts. :) Oh, he'll be here shortly to inform us of his vast experience in obtaining government contracts. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/17 9:18 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:34:57 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. He doesn't understand how RFPs work... or even businesses for that matter. We've had government contracts. In every case, the only contact we had with *anyone* until after it was awarded was to send multiple copies of our proposal to a specific address. You either requested, in writing, the RFP or downloaded it from a site. I think he's confusing government contract with *union* contracts. :) Perhaps there is less of it in the boondocks, but there was plenty of it taking place when the ad agency I worked for handled military recruiting promotion...Plenty of ass-kissing, lunches, receptions, and to a much lesser degree when I was writing and producing videos for several federal agencies. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/17 9:44 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/18/2017 9:18 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:34:57 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. He doesn't understand how RFPs work... or even businesses for that matter. We've had government contracts. In every case, the only contact we had with *anyone* until after it was awarded was to send multiple copies of our proposal to a specific address. You either requested, in writing, the RFP or downloaded it from a site. I think he's confusing government contract with *union* contracts. :) Oh, he'll be here shortly to inform us of his vast experience in obtaining government contracts. I had a few contracts in the 1980s...small ones and one really large one. |
Sirius/XM
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 9:53:10 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/18/17 9:44 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 9:18 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:34:57 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. He doesn't understand how RFPs work... or even businesses for that matter. We've had government contracts. In every case, the only contact we had with *anyone* until after it was awarded was to send multiple copies of our proposal to a specific address. You either requested, in writing, the RFP or downloaded it from a site. I think he's confusing government contract with *union* contracts. :) Oh, he'll be here shortly to inform us of his vast experience in obtaining government contracts. I had a few contracts in the 1980s...small ones and one really large one. You did a lot of ass-kissing? |
Sirius/XM
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 06:52:31 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. .... and I will continue to have disdain for it, particularly when it is interrupting my entertainment trying to sell me something I do not want and do not need. (with the same ad, over and over again). I know you are in the business and you think it is music to your ears when someone screams at you with lies about some useless product. One of the most attractive features of video recorders is the ability to watch TV and skip the commercials. I do not even want to watch live TV and seldom do. That has been true for me for over 40 years. |
Sirius/XM
On 8/18/2017 9:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/18/17 9:18 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:34:57 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 7:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 8/18/17 7:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 8/18/2017 6:52 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: The hilarious part is Greg repeatedly regurgitating his disdain for advertising. As to whether you kissed political ass, well, if you were a government contractor, you surely did, even if you were unaware of it or refuse to acknowledge it. You certainly know how to stretch a lie. Are you saying that Greg hasn't repeatedly regurgitated his disdain for advertising, or that there was no ass-kissing involved in your obtaining government contracts? I wasn't high enough in the food chain to do any ass kissing. He doesn't understand how RFPs work... or even businesses for that matter. We've had government contracts. In every case, the only contact we had with *anyone* until after it was awarded was to send multiple copies of our proposal to a specific address. You either requested, in writing, the RFP or downloaded it from a site. I think he's confusing government contract with *union* contracts. :) Perhaps there is less of it in the boondocks, but there was plenty of it taking place when the ad agency I worked for handled military recruiting promotion...Plenty of ass-kissing, lunches, receptions, and to a much lesser degree when I was writing and producing videos for several federal agencies. I suppose if you are a "me too" company with nothing to differentiate yourself from your competition some elbow bending, ass-kissing and smoodging is required. |
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