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Pathfinder update
Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. |
Pathfinder update
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/2/2017 8:44 AM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. Airlock in the heater core? What kind of dummy do they think you are? Just came back from talking to the service people at the dealership and to the tech who is working on the car. He acknowledged that an air lock in a brand new car would be unusual but they just follow the recommended "fix" in the Nissan service manuals. They've tried three times now and, when I told him my theory, he agreed and said they'd replace the control valve next. He said that the 2017 versions a little different than past models and this is the first time they've encountered this problem. He also looked at the note that the counter guy had written. He put, "customer states he smelled a burning odor". I explained to him that it wasn't a normal "hot" odor of a new car with new pipes, etc. I said it was the distinctive electrical odor of something like a locked motor burning up it's windings. Saw the light bulb go on in his head. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/2/2017 9:43 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. He mentioned that they can exercise just about everything via the ECM but it didn't report any problems. When I explained everything that I just replied to Justin with, he said he would go ahead and replace the coolant valve anyway. He thinks my theory is probably correct. I am surprised a fuse didn't blow though. He said they were all ok. I am thinking the motor windings were bad and they just burned up and opened. The ECM would confirm a voltage was being sent, but it may not report that nothing happened. |
Pathfinder update
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 10:15:12 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/2/2017 9:43 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. He mentioned that they can exercise just about everything via the ECM but it didn't report any problems. When I explained everything that I just replied to Justin with, he said he would go ahead and replace the coolant valve anyway. He thinks my theory is probably correct. I am surprised a fuse didn't blow though. He said they were all ok. I am thinking the motor windings were bad and they just burned up and opened. The ECM would confirm a voltage was being sent, but it may not report that nothing happened. These days the cars even monitor when a bulb burns out, and that's done by measuring current flow, not voltage. Some of the early LED lighting kits would set error codes because they didn't pull enough current. The newer kits fixed that. Good luck! |
Pathfinder update
On 6/2/2017 9:43 AM, Its Me wrote:
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. One problem that exists in service departments at dealerships is that because warranty work is reimbursed by the manufacturer, the techs are required to follow the recommended manufacturer's procedures to fix the problem. They allow a certain amount of hours to affect the repair as well. It's only after the recommended procedure fails that they can do anything else, and they have to coordinate additional work with the manufacturer in order to receive payment. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/2/17 10:14 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/2/2017 9:43 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. He mentioned that they can exercise just about everything via the ECM but it didn't report any problems. When I explained everything that I just replied to Justin with, he said he would go ahead and replace the coolant valve anyway. He thinks my theory is probably correct. I am surprised a fuse didn't blow though. He said they were all ok. I am thinking the motor windings were bad and they just burned up and opened. The ECM would confirm a voltage was being sent, but it may not report that nothing happened. Gosh, never had an ECM problem on my 1953 Aero Willys hardtop. :) A ton and a half of automotive mastery, with a 90 hp engine and a three speed on the column. When something broke, a quick trip to the junkyard for a "new" part. I have a memory of it not having an oil filter as standard, and my dad and I installed one. Or that might have been on some other Willys vehicle he liked and owned, maybe a 1949 Jeep wagon or Jeepster. Hazy memories. :) |
Pathfinder update
On 6/2/2017 10:33 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/2/17 10:14 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 6/2/2017 9:43 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. He mentioned that they can exercise just about everything via the ECM but it didn't report any problems. When I explained everything that I just replied to Justin with, he said he would go ahead and replace the coolant valve anyway. He thinks my theory is probably correct. I am surprised a fuse didn't blow though. He said they were all ok. I am thinking the motor windings were bad and they just burned up and opened. The ECM would confirm a voltage was being sent, but it may not report that nothing happened. Gosh, never had an ECM problem on my 1953 Aero Willys hardtop. :) A ton and a half of automotive mastery, with a 90 hp engine and a three speed on the column. When something broke, a quick trip to the junkyard for a "new" part. I have a memory of it not having an oil filter as standard, and my dad and I installed one. Or that might have been on some other Willys vehicle he liked and owned, maybe a 1949 Jeep wagon or Jeepster. Hazy memories. :) Yeah, I remember those days also. Great fun to visit the local junkyards looking for stuff to either fix or add to your jalopy. In those days they let you roam around the yard, find whatever you wanted, remove it, take it back to the office and negotiate a price. I haven't seen an active junkyard in years. |
Pathfinder update
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 11:02:27 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/2/2017 10:33 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/2/17 10:14 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 6/2/2017 9:43 AM, Its Me wrote: On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 7:09:37 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You may be correct in your diagnosis, but a couple of things come to mind. 1. They know about that valve and what it does. That would be one of the first things any half-assed tech would look at. 2. If a control motor is burned out, it's hard to believe it's not throwing a code. Modern cars can tell if you farted in the seat. Let us know what their final determination is. He mentioned that they can exercise just about everything via the ECM but it didn't report any problems. When I explained everything that I just replied to Justin with, he said he would go ahead and replace the coolant valve anyway. He thinks my theory is probably correct. I am surprised a fuse didn't blow though. He said they were all ok. I am thinking the motor windings were bad and they just burned up and opened. The ECM would confirm a voltage was being sent, but it may not report that nothing happened. Gosh, never had an ECM problem on my 1953 Aero Willys hardtop. :) A ton and a half of automotive mastery, with a 90 hp engine and a three speed on the column. When something broke, a quick trip to the junkyard for a "new" part. I have a memory of it not having an oil filter as standard, and my dad and I installed one. Or that might have been on some other Willys vehicle he liked and owned, maybe a 1949 Jeep wagon or Jeepster. Hazy memories. :) Yeah, I remember those days also. Great fun to visit the local junkyards looking for stuff to either fix or add to your jalopy. In those days they let you roam around the yard, find whatever you wanted, remove it, take it back to the office and negotiate a price. I haven't seen an active junkyard in years. There's one about 15 miles from here that "specializes" in 60's, 70's and some 80's model cars and trucks. I've roamed that yard a few times and have found a few pieces for my old Torino. Everything is pretty picked over. I did find a remote control sport side mirror. The remote is the kind with a small "joystick" that attaches to cables that go out to the mirror housing and move the mirror around. If you don't have one, they're not easy to find. The best stuff comes from Arizona and the southwest in general. No rust. But you pay for it. |
Pathfinder update
Been a while since I've toured a junkyard up here. The last time I needed a mirror for my 1995 Plymouth Voyageur, they had a computer system that connected all the major junkyards. If you needed a part your search went far and wide while you sat at your phone. They even had a guy here in the city where you could pick up your part at his house...as long as you didn't go at his supper time.
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Pathfinder update
On 6/2/2017 2:02 PM, True North wrote:
Been a while since I've toured a junkyard up here. The last time I needed a mirror for my 1995 Plymouth Voyageur, they had a computer system that connected all the major junkyards. If you needed a part your search went far and wide while you sat at your phone. They even had a guy here in the city where you could pick up your part at his house...as long as you didn't go at his supper time. Junkyards had become too organized by that time. I am remembering the 60's and maybe early 70's although I wasn't in the USA much. |
Pathfinder update
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 14:10:46 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 6/2/2017 2:02 PM, True North wrote: Been a while since I've toured a junkyard up here. The last time I needed a mirror for my 1995 Plymouth Voyageur, they had a computer system that connected all the major junkyards. If you needed a part your search went far and wide while you sat at your phone. They even had a guy here in the city where you could pick up your part at his house...as long as you didn't go at his supper time. Junkyards had become too organized by that time. I am remembering the 60's and maybe early 70's although I wasn't in the USA much. === Even in the 1960s a lot of junkyards were connected to a teletype network where they could send out requests for a part, or entire sub-assemblies like engines and transmissions. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Pathfinder update
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:09:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. You sound right to me. That "air lock" thing is BS unless the plumbing to the heater core is radically different than any car I have ever seen. |
Pathfinder update
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 11:02:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: I haven't seen an active junkyard in years. They are rare and big ones ever rarer. We do go looking in our travels because that is the best source of vintage license plates for our collection. We scored this time just south of Waynesville in a small yard with several dozen junked cars and a bunch of other metal stuff. I am guessing trucking it out of here holds down the price of scrap metal. The biggest junkyard we have been in for a long time was Montana, closely followed by one in New Zealand. Junkyards are the same world wide tho. Nasty old guys with nasty old dogs. I seem to get along with both fairly well tho. ;-) The New Zealand guy started off pretty rough but as soon as he figured out why we were there he switched over to the normal Qiwi "No worries, help yourself mate" I couldn't even get him to take any money. |
Pathfinder update
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Pathfinder update
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 20:09:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: You sound right to me. That "air lock" thing is BS unless the plumbing to the heater core is radically different than any car I have ever seen. We'll see. As I've mentioned in other posts the delay in fixing it is because they have to get authorization from Nissan to do anything other than what is in the standard, recommended repair instruction for a given problem. The dealership won't be compensated for a warranty repair otherwise. After 15 days it will be subject to Massachusetts Lemon Law issues. I don't expect that nor do I want it but it becomes an option at that point. The other Lemon Law qualifier is an attempt to fix a problem 3 times on 3 different occasions. Back in 1997 I bought a new Dodge Ram pickup from the same dealership. I soon discovered that at exactly 42 mph it started to buck and hop as if I was pulling a heavy trailer. I took it back and initially they did the "cannot duplicate problem" response until I took the service manager for a ride and demonstrated it. He agreed something was wrong and they tore the engine apart looking for something in the troubleshooting section of the Dodge service manual. Reassembled the engine and the "hop" was still there. They finally contacted the regional Dodge rep who came out and took a ride with me as I demonstrated the problem. He acknowledged that there was definitely something wrong and said he'd report back to Dodge about it. He said that in the meantime I could go back to the dealer and pick out a new truck. He then called me and asked if I'd be willing to allow them to try one more thing. I said sure. They replaced the whole rear end of the truck, complete with axle, differential, wheels, ... the whole thing. Hop was now gone. A month later they sent me a letter. The original rear end had been inspected by Dodge and the problem turned out to be a faulty limited slip differential. I had a similar issue with my jeep and it turned out to be a cracked gear carrier in the rear axle. They can do strange stuff. I figured mine out by removing the drive shaft to the rear and running it as a FWD for a few days, no failure. Then I pulled the bucket from the rear and saw the problem. Fortunately that was a pretty standard Borg Warner part and I could get one locally. 2 or 3 times in and out to get it shimmed right and I was good as new. |
Pathfinder update
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:09:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. Dealerships don't seem to like folks who can read. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/3/2017 5:59 AM, Poco Deplorevole wrote:
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:09:21 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Car is still at the dealership (since Tuesday morning). They told me that the heater core was airlocked and they had drained the coolant, purged and replaced it and thought it was fixed but when they tested it, no heat again. Repeated the purging process without success. Still no heat. The service manager told me they have a call in to Nissan for assistance in finding the problem. I am going to go there later this morning and let them know what the problem is. When I picked up the car last Saturday evening and drove it home I noticed a slight electrical burning odor coming from the engine compartment. I noticed it again on Sunday but then it went away. Didn't smell it again. I informed the service manager of the odor when I brought it in on Tuesday but they sorta brushed it off saying the car was new and it was probably just things getting hot for the first time. Maybe, but I know the difference between a new "hot" odor and an electrical burning odor. Anyway, after doing some Google "research" I discovered that there is a motor driven coolant control valve in the engine compartment, mounted on the firewall. When the climate control calls for heat, the motor opens the valve, allowing coolant to flow through the heater core. When no heat is called for or air conditioning is being used, it closes. I think the valve was stuck or jammed shut from the factory. When the little motor tried to open it, it first overheated and eventually burnt out which accounts for the electrical burning odor that then went away. It also accounts for no heat, obviously. Need to be diplomatic though. Sometimes you can **** people off by trying to be helpful, especially when *they* are supposed to be the experts. Dealerships don't seem to like folks who can read. These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-) |
Pathfinder update
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 08:03:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-) I ran into a similar thing with Mercury on my old 60 EFI outboard. Unfortunately they ended up selling me some parts I did not need in the flow chart (thermostat, impeller etc) but I saved the original ones and reused them on subsequent maintenance so I just ended up eating some labor. In the end I had isolated the problem down to a few things that they could not ignore and they finally admitted it was a problem mating the Mercury "big foot" L/U cooling water to the Yamaha licensed power head. They knew about it and thought they had the problem fixed ... it wasn't. My local guy came up with the fix that was adopted for all of them until subsequent new manufacture used a different interface. Essentially the water tube broke loose at the top and it was done by the dealer on the first 100 hour (in 2002). That was the last time I ever took a motor to a dealer for routine service although it was a pretty common problem on all of the "big foot" Mercs that used Yamaha power heads around that time. The local guy had just gone through this on a smaller motor but he still had to convince Merc it affected the 40-60s. By then I had the folks in corporate involved and I was beating them up pretty bad on the boat BBs. They gave him free rein to fix the problem and when he was successful they wanted to know what he did. Bottom up, field engineering ;-) |
Pathfinder update
On Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:25:02 UTC-3, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 08:03:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-) I ran into a similar thing with Mercury on my old 60 EFI outboard. Unfortunately they ended up selling me some parts I did not need in the flow chart (thermostat, impeller etc) but I saved the original ones and reused them on subsequent maintenance so I just ended up eating some labor. In the end I had isolated the problem down to a few things that they could not ignore and they finally admitted it was a problem mating the Mercury "big foot" L/U cooling water to the Yamaha licensed power head. They knew about it and thought they had the problem fixed ... it wasn't. My local guy came up with the fix that was adopted for all of them until subsequent new manufacture used a different interface. Essentially the water tube broke loose at the top and it was done by the dealer on the first 100 hour (in 2002). That was the last time I ever took a motor to a dealer for routine service although it was a pretty common problem on all of the "big foot" Mercs that used Yamaha power heads around that time. The local guy had just gone through this on a smaller motor but he still had to convince Merc it affected the 40-60s. By then I had the folks in corporate involved and I was beating them up pretty bad on the boat BBs. They gave him free rein to fix the problem and when he was successful they wanted to know what he did. Bottom up, field engineering ;-) Wow! I had no problem with my 'Made in China' 2012 Mercury 60 BigFoot. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/3/17 12:41 PM, True North wrote:
On Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:25:02 UTC-3, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 08:03:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-) I ran into a similar thing with Mercury on my old 60 EFI outboard. Unfortunately they ended up selling me some parts I did not need in the flow chart (thermostat, impeller etc) but I saved the original ones and reused them on subsequent maintenance so I just ended up eating some labor. In the end I had isolated the problem down to a few things that they could not ignore and they finally admitted it was a problem mating the Mercury "big foot" L/U cooling water to the Yamaha licensed power head. They knew about it and thought they had the problem fixed ... it wasn't. My local guy came up with the fix that was adopted for all of them until subsequent new manufacture used a different interface. Essentially the water tube broke loose at the top and it was done by the dealer on the first 100 hour (in 2002). That was the last time I ever took a motor to a dealer for routine service although it was a pretty common problem on all of the "big foot" Mercs that used Yamaha power heads around that time. The local guy had just gone through this on a smaller motor but he still had to convince Merc it affected the 40-60s. By then I had the folks in corporate involved and I was beating them up pretty bad on the boat BBs. They gave him free rein to fix the problem and when he was successful they wanted to know what he did. Bottom up, field engineering ;-) Wow! I had no problem with my 'Made in China' 2012 Mercury 60 BigFoot. Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) |
Pathfinder update
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote: On Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:25:02 UTC-3, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 08:03:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: These guys are pretty good. As I previously posted, I visited them on Thursday to see how things were going. When I mentioned the control valve the tech acknowledged that it was the first thing he thought of but they are obligated to follow the recommended "fix" procedures by Nissan in order to be compensated for parts and labor by the manufacturer for warranty repair. In order to replace the control valve they have to get further authorization from Nissan. Makes sense but if they were free to do what *they* think should be done I would have had the car back on Wednesday. Now it will be sometime next week. Ok with me. The loaner they gave me is nice and better equipped. Might even see if I can strike a deal to keep it instead. :-) I ran into a similar thing with Mercury on my old 60 EFI outboard. Unfortunately they ended up selling me some parts I did not need in the flow chart (thermostat, impeller etc) but I saved the original ones and reused them on subsequent maintenance so I just ended up eating some labor. In the end I had isolated the problem down to a few things that they could not ignore and they finally admitted it was a problem mating the Mercury "big foot" L/U cooling water to the Yamaha licensed power head. They knew about it and thought they had the problem fixed ... it wasn't. My local guy came up with the fix that was adopted for all of them until subsequent new manufacture used a different interface. Essentially the water tube broke loose at the top and it was done by the dealer on the first 100 hour (in 2002). That was the last time I ever took a motor to a dealer for routine service although it was a pretty common problem on all of the "big foot" Mercs that used Yamaha power heads around that time. The local guy had just gone through this on a smaller motor but he still had to convince Merc it affected the 40-60s. By then I had the folks in corporate involved and I was beating them up pretty bad on the boat BBs. They gave him free rein to fix the problem and when he was successful they wanted to know what he did. Bottom up, field engineering ;-) Wow! I had no problem with my 'Made in China' 2012 Mercury 60 BigFoot. I am sure after 10 years, they shook out all of the bugs. Honestly, that was the only real design defect I had in 3000 hours. Other than that I just had one bad HP fuel pump and two bad IAC valves. The pump caused the engine to start leaning out around 3000 RPM with low rail pressure on the injector rail. The IAC valve keeps it from idling, it is OK once the throttle opens a bit. On those motors, the throttle is closed on idle and the air all comes from the IAC, controlled by the computer. It is a $40 part that is real easy to change (one hose, one connector and one screw, all out in the open). That is what makes the "paca paca" sound when it is idling. The HP pump is a little harder but not much. You need to open up the vapor separator. You might be able to do it without removing the VST but I just took it off (3 screws). Easy job in the driveway. |
Pathfinder update
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. |
Pathfinder update
On Saturday, 3 June 2017 18:17:34 UTC-3, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc My "first" outboard that I got to use for the summer when I was about six was a 1-1/2 hp that I put on the back of a pram. The next summer, when I was seven, I got a slightly used Mercury Super Hurricane he took in on trade. It was a 10 hp, but in reality it might have had twice that much hp. Put it on a 12' Penn Yan. That old motor strangely looks a bit like my 1954 British Seagull 40 Plus. http://www.britishseagullparts.com/40Plus.htm |
Pathfinder update
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. That is not the same one. That looks newer |
Pathfinder update
On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. That is not the same one. That looks newer I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0 horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp at 3000 RPM. Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range. In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude. When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings. Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more bare bones alternative. Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the races and comparisons. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/4/17 7:07 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. That is not the same one. That looks newer I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0 horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp at 3000 RPM. Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range. In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude. When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings. Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more bare bones alternative. Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the races and comparisons. I suggest you look more closely at the fuzzy specs on the photo I posted. It is a 50 hp BIG FOUR cylinder Evinrude and "built-in" gas tanks were common. Note the handles on the engine on both sides and compare with the vids of the similar engine that are available. Here's a vid of an even earlier Evinrude Big Four 50-hp outboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkRHtUZoQI Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/4/2017 8:30 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/4/17 7:07 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. That is not the same one. That looks newer I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0 horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp at 3000 RPM. Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range. In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude. When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings. Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more bare bones alternative. Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the races and comparisons. I suggest you look more closely at the fuzzy specs on the photo I posted. It is a 50 hp BIG FOUR cylinder Evinrude and "built-in" gas tanks were common. Note the handles on the engine on both sides and compare with the vids of the similar engine that are available. Here's a vid of an even earlier Evinrude Big Four 50-hp outboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkRHtUZoQI Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. My apologies. I *did* look closely at the fuzzy specs ... in fact I copied and downloaded the image using Infraview. I could swear the second line says, "3 hp at 3000 RPM. |
Pathfinder update
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2017 8:30 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/4/17 7:07 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. That is not the same one. That looks newer I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0 horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp at 3000 RPM. Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range. In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude. When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings. Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more bare bones alternative. Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the races and comparisons. I suggest you look more closely at the fuzzy specs on the photo I posted. It is a 50 hp BIG FOUR cylinder Evinrude and "built-in" gas tanks were common. Note the handles on the engine on both sides and compare with the vids of the similar engine that are available. Here's a vid of an even earlier Evinrude Big Four 50-hp outboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkRHtUZoQI Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. My apologies. I *did* look closely at the fuzzy specs ... in fact I copied and downloaded the image using Infraview. I could swear the second line says, "3 hp at 3000 RPM. I agree it looks that way to me, too, but the first line seems to say 50 hp. And the rest of the specs indicate an engine much larger than 3 hp, and so fo the vids. -- Posted with my iPhone 7+. |
Pathfinder update
On 6/4/2017 8:30 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/4/17 7:07 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 6/4/2017 1:03 AM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 18:16:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 6/3/2017 5:17 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/3/17 4:02 PM, wrote: On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 13:32:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Greg had the 1912 Evinrude, signed by Ole Evinrude himself and with 210,000 hours on it. :) Funny you say that. I did have a 1924 Evinrude I got for $25 from the same little old lady who sold me the 1974 7.5 HP merc I used on my 12' jon boat for years. (both for $300). I still have the 7.5 but I gave the old 'rude to a collector here. I am sure I could have sold it for a handsome profit but this was a good guy who appreciated it. I am sure it is restored to like new condition by now. It is what he does. My dad always had some really old Evinrudes in the shop, but I don't recall what most of them were. I do remember, though, a 50 hp monster from post WWII that he stuck on a 13' speedboat he built to race around Long Island Sound. Found a photo of one: http://tinyurl.com/y9exrwyc Don't think that's a 50 hp outboard. The spec says "3hp at 3000 RPM. That is not the same one. That looks newer I think Harry must have posted and referenced the wrong image. The one he referenced was definitely *not* a fifty horsepower outboard. It had a built-in gas tank for cripes sake. Maybe when he typed his post he missed putting a decimal point after the "5" and meant to say "5.0 horsepower". None the less, the spec on the image he posted said "3hp at 3000 RPM. Following WWII outboards fell in the 1.5 hp to 25 hp range. In 1958 OMC introduced a four cylinder, 50 hp outboard that used a combination of Johnson designed and Evinrude designed components. The head was aluminum (from Johnson) and the steel parts were from Evinrude. When I was a kid I had a fascination with outboards and the horsepower race between Mercury, Johnson and Evinrude. In those days Johnson and Evinrude were not the same designs even though they were both owned by OMC. They marketed different engines in different horsepower ratings. Evinrude was considered the "higher end" motor and Johnson was the more bare bones alternative. Mercury usually won the horsepower rating race every year as the new lineups were announced. Their "Tower of Power" design won most of the races and comparisons. I suggest you look more closely at the fuzzy specs on the photo I posted. It is a 50 hp BIG FOUR cylinder Evinrude and "built-in" gas tanks were common. Note the handles on the engine on both sides and compare with the vids of the similar engine that are available. Here's a vid of an even earlier Evinrude Big Four 50-hp outboard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkRHtUZoQI Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. When I was a kid (10-13 years old) my family used to spend summers on a small lake that was about a 3/4 of a mile long and maybe half a mile wide. We had a motorboat (14 footer) with a 50 hp Johnson on it that we used for water skiing and generally fooling around. Running wide open or close to wide open a 5 gallon gas tank was good for about 5 or 6 circular circuits around the lake. Don't know how much gas that built in tank held on that early Evinrude but running it like the guy in the video is doesn't seem like you'd have much range. |
Pathfinder update
On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 08:30:55 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:
Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. When I was at that Teamster confab at the Lake of the Ozarks (1960 or so) there was a guy who raced on the Mississippi and he swore the Merc 85hp twins he had were more powerful than the brand new 100 HP motors. They were tricked up a bit tho, His aluminum cat boat would do well over 60 and that was flying in those days. Now days any garden variety flats or bass boat will run 60. (But they are running 200-250 HP outboards) |
Pathfinder update
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Pathfinder update
On 6/4/2017 10:48 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/4/17 10:35 AM, wrote: On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 08:30:55 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. When I was at that Teamster confab at the Lake of the Ozarks (1960 or so) there was a guy who raced on the Mississippi and he swore the Merc 85hp twins he had were more powerful than the brand new 100 HP motors. They were tricked up a bit tho, His aluminum cat boat would do well over 60 and that was flying in those days. Now days any garden variety flats or bass boat will run 60. (But they are running 200-250 HP outboards) Merc was especially famous for outboards labeled 10 hp for lakes that had a 10 hp restriction. They were more like 20 or 25 hp. :) I always got a kick out of the "9.9 hp" ratings. Around here the restrictions were on 10 hp and up. |
Pathfinder update
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/4/2017 10:48 AM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 6/4/17 10:35 AM, wrote: On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 08:30:55 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote: Merc had some engines on which it seriously underrated the output and they sold well for lake use, but they had corrosion problems in those days in salt water use. When I was at that Teamster confab at the Lake of the Ozarks (1960 or so) there was a guy who raced on the Mississippi and he swore the Merc 85hp twins he had were more powerful than the brand new 100 HP motors. They were tricked up a bit tho, His aluminum cat boat would do well over 60 and that was flying in those days. Now days any garden variety flats or bass boat will run 60. (But they are running 200-250 HP outboards) Merc was especially famous for outboards labeled 10 hp for lakes that had a 10 hp restriction. They were more like 20 or 25 hp. :) I always got a kick out of the "9.9 hp" ratings. Around here the restrictions were on 10 hp and up. We had a Magnolia cutty cabin twin O/B in about 1959. Twin 35 mercs and it would run 35-40 mph. They wee ripped off, so,dat replaced with 45's. Seemed like the same performance. Interesting boat. Only problem other than motors stolen, was the same boat that Magnolia ran down the Mississippi. Through the Panama Canal up to Fort Bragg, Calif. was 22-23'. They hit the whistle buoy going in to Richmond Harbor and knocked a hole in the bow. Borrowed our trailer to get it to the repair dealer. Interesting talking to them. 50 gallon barrels of extra fuel. They said was hard to,get fuel on the Pacific Coast after leaving the canal for a few hundred miles. |
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