On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:15:01 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:


2:34 PMCalifbill
- show quoted text -
Freon was a banned item. Same reason it went out in car AC?
-----

Sure it was banned but look at the price before it was. excise tax.

You can still buy R12 and it is not even as expensive as you would
expect for a "banned" item.
I still have about 30 pounds of R22 and I was surprised it was not
more valuable. I thought I had a gold mine.

I also wonder it the whole thing wasn't just a scam. The ozone
recovered and there is no indication that CFC production (and release)
world wide actually dropped. As I said China said they were going to
build a billion R12 refrigerators and most of the 3d world, where
recovery will be rare, is still using it.
I see R12 and R22 for sale in China for a little over a back a pound
With a recycle machine going for close to a grand, who would bother
recycling it?
BTW now that the ozone hole everyone had their panties in a wad over
is going away, they decided it was a global warming gas and maybe we
have too much ozone.

Poquito Loco wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 22:59:17 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:48:20 -0500, Alex wrote:

Has anyone used an ultrasonic cleaner for their guns - or boat parts?

I bought one and I'm clear on the cleaning part but have read a lot of
opinions on the best way to lubricate the parts after they are cleaned.
===

I have not used one but it's not clear to me that a special lubricant
would be required - anything suitable for normal lube and corrosion
protection in my opinion.
If you are cleaning a gun, for example, how can you be sure to displace
the water/solvent when you remove it from the tank? There are tiny
areas that wouldn't be a problem with normal cleaning.

I was looking for some firsthand experiences to compare to the differing
opinions on the internet.
My first thought would be to use an air compressor to get the moisture out. Then I would think any
good lubricant would do the job. I then, not wanting to sound completely stupid, went online. Came
across this, which I'm pretty sure you've probably already seen:

"Never use an ultrasonic cleaner unless you completely strip the device prior to submerging, dry the
parts completely, and re-lubricate prior to assembly.

The bath will completely strip grease and lubricants from the parts, dirt and soft residues, but is
not particularly effective at removing hard, baked-on residue from the chamber and feed ramp. It's
impossible to properly apply grease to the shafts and sliding parts in a pistol without disassembly,
much less a revolver.

I've soaked a 1911 barrel for 20 minutes, hardly touching carbon on the feed ramp. On the other
hand, the bolt carrier group of an AR is easy to disassemble and comes out of the bath spotless,
inside and out. Even the gas tube extension comes clean. Cartridges come out spotless inside and
out, but the hard residue in primer pockets is hardly touched.

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.

Gun parts can be dried quickly and effectively with compressed air. That has little effect on wet
cartridges, which I put in a mesh bag and hang over a floor fan for a day.

Everybody has a "secret" formula for a cleaning solution, most of which make no sense from a
chemist's point of view. Commercial cleaners are based on detergents, with EDTA or citric acid for
cleaning brass. Ammonia or vinegar are too weak to do much of anything. (forget "and." Citric acid
neutralizes EDTA and vinegar neutralizes ammonia.) Simple Green works well to remove grease, but
will form a sticky gel if left in the bath for more than a day. "

From:

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=440246

(As you know, I'm really in to 1911's now! The SR1911 is on its way)

I plan on using compressed air but at that point everything is dry. I'm
leaning toward soaking the parts in a very light gun lube like Slick
2000, wiping them dry and applying a conventional oil to the parts that
need them. I guess displacing the water in the solvent is my biggest
concern.

wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:48:20 -0500, Alex wrote:

Has anyone used an ultrasonic cleaner for their guns - or boat parts?

I bought one and I'm clear on the cleaning part but have read a lot of
opinions on the best way to lubricate the parts after they are cleaned.
I would put mineral spirits with a dash of oil in my cleaner. When the
mineral spirits evaporates away, you still end up with a uniform oil
coating. Then wipe all the oil off that you can, knowing it is still
there on the microscopic level. When assembling the gun, lube the
operating surfaces as normal but too much is as bad or worse than none
at all.

It sounds great in theory but it's a 7 liter cleaner and I'm not certain
that dash of oil would make it onto all of the parts. The cleaner has a
heater which will aid in drying but I want to be sure there is no water
left.

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 08:27:32 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.
===

In basic training we used to get sand in the M-14 trigger mechanism
all the time. The unauthorized but effective cure was to wash it
under hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and re-oil immediately.

How did you dry it?

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 12:30:59 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 08:27:32 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.
===

In basic training we used to get sand in the M-14 trigger mechanism
all the time. The unauthorized but effective cure was to wash it
under hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and re-oil immediately.
That was SOP on the M1. The only issue is very hot water and immediate
re oiling
The hot water will certainly help. I've even considered placing them in
the oven set at 215º.

Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 12:30:59 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 08:27:32 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.
===

In basic training we used to get sand in the M-14 trigger mechanism
all the time. The unauthorized but effective cure was to wash it
under hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and re-oil immediately.
We washed our M-14 under hot (really hot) soapy water in OCS. Then we rinsed them in hot (really
hot) water. Each individual then waved the hot pieces around to air dry them. Worked well.

Did you do a full take-down or just separate the upper and lower and
pull out the bolt? How heavy was the oil they provided?

wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 15:18:53 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 12:30:59 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 08:27:32 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.
===

In basic training we used to get sand in the M-14 trigger mechanism
all the time. The unauthorized but effective cure was to wash it
under hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and re-oil immediately.
We washed our M-14 under hot (really hot) soapy water in OCS. Then we rinsed them in hot (really
hot) water. Each individual then waved the hot pieces around to air dry them. Worked well.
I think the hot soapy water thing started when they were using
corrosive ammo.
I only shoot suspect (but labeled non-corrosive) ammo in my AR's and
AK's. The rest get the good stuff.

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 06:18:50 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 01:00:58 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 15:18:53 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 12:30:59 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 08:27:32 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.
===

In basic training we used to get sand in the M-14 trigger mechanism
all the time. The unauthorized but effective cure was to wash it
under hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and re-oil immediately.
We washed our M-14 under hot (really hot) soapy water in OCS. Then we rinsed them in hot (really
hot) water. Each individual then waved the hot pieces around to air dry them. Worked well.
I think the hot soapy water thing started when they were using
corrosive ammo.
This was in the mid 60's. Don't know if the ammo was corrosive or not. Never heard that term
mentioned in the years I trained with the M-14.

Some of the Russian stuff, like the 7.62x54R for the Mosin Nagant, is very corrosive.
===

For us it was just a strategy for removing the gritty, sandy dust that
we were training in. Nothing else seemed to be nearly as effective as
hot soapy water.

The idea behind the ultrasonic cleaner was to do a better job getting
the crap out of the small areas that conventional cleaning often
misses. Those small areas are my concern as far as eliminating
corrosion. One guy on You Tube immerses his gun parts - all of them -
in Frog Lube. That seems like serious overkill and leaves a chance of
over lubricating.

Tim wrote:
If you want to dry it good. Hive it a good shot of brake-clean or better yet, starting fluid ( eather) then let it sit. It'll be dry as a desert bone in moments. Then use light gun oil on reassembly.

Is that corrosive to any metals or blued/parkerized/cerakoted, etc.
finishes or are you recommending that for the internal parts only?

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 19:47:52 -0500, Alex wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 12:30:59 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 08:27:32 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

If you get sand into a mechanism, you have to remove all the grease to clean it. The ultrasonic bath
excels at this task. My guns have thus far been spared, but I've used it to clean bicycle chains and
freewheels, as well as carburetors.
===

In basic training we used to get sand in the M-14 trigger mechanism
all the time. The unauthorized but effective cure was to wash it
under hot soapy water, rinse, dry, and re-oil immediately.
We washed our M-14 under hot (really hot) soapy water in OCS. Then we rinsed them in hot (really
hot) water. Each individual then waved the hot pieces around to air dry them. Worked well.

Did you do a full take-down or just separate the upper and lower and
pull out the bolt? How heavy was the oil they provided?

You know, I just don't remember. The oil was light, the guns could not have any wet oil anywhere,
just a very light coating.