Credit Card Fraud
 

Credit Card Fraud
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/9/2015 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 1:19:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:49:38 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 09:07:16 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 11:48:09 AM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 7:28:38 AM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 20:30:06 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 11:24:40 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/8/2015 11:03 AM, amdx wrote:
On 12/8/2015 8:20 AM, John H. wrote:
So yesterday evening I get a call from my bank asking about my credit
card usage. Not
trusting the caller, I called the bank. Sure enough, my credit card
information had
been used at a Shell station in California for a $110 purchase. The
actual card was
still in my billfold, so somehow they got the number.

How? I don't know. But the card is cancelled. Right when I'm about to
order Christmas
presents. Pain in the ass. Luckily, the bank will get me a new card in
two days.

So...watch yourself.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

When my daughter was off at college we had fraud on our card twice.
The first time about a Red Roof stay, $100 of stuff at a CVS and a
$200 steak dinner.
The second time, a bunch of around $50 charges of Apple tunes.
Replaced the card both times.
There seemed to be a lot of that happening around the college town,
but the fraudulent charges happened in a different city.

This fraud crap is costing all of us, in the way of higher cost goods.
I hope the new cards they are coming out with help contain fraud.

Mikek


I've been getting replacement cards with the new "chip" embedded in
them. So far though, I have not found any place that uses them yet.
They still swipe the magnetic strip.
I've used my chip at Lowes a couple of times. It may be more secure,
but it's slower and a bit of a PITA as compared to just swiping.


I didn't find it to be slower. They slide it in the machine rather than
swiping. Same thing in my experience.

Well just push it in the slot and pull it right back out, like in swiping, and see
who gets yelled at by the cashier!

You gotta wait for the machine to tell you it's OK to remove your card or you'll get
your damn hand slapped.

It takes longer.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

That was my experience. You put it in, wait, OK the charges, wait a bit
longer, then you can remove it.


Overall, is the time much different than a swipe and waiting for the
receipt and signing?

To me it seems a bit longer. The biggest thing is that it's
intolerant of removing your card too soon. I'd think that once it
reads the chip, and that should take less than a second, it would be
done with your card. That's seemingly not the case.

ditto, but I've never timed it.

You would need to use a lot of samples to know much because network
traffic will make a difference on both of them, It gets a lot slower
when a lot of people are shopping ... like now.

They may still do that, but:

"One of the benefits of chip and PIN technology is that the card reader
does not have to be connected to a phone or Internet line to process the
charge. With magnetic stripe cards, the card reader must "talk" with the
credit card company before authorizing the charge. (In the old days,
cashiers would call in the charge over the phone.) In places with slow
telephony networks, chip and PIN terminals can work offline, processing
the charge using the chip alone and then authorizing the charges in bulk
at the end of the day."

Interesting.



What PIN? I've received some new replacement cards with the chip but I
didn't see or read anything about a PIN number being required to use
them. Haven't tried any of them yet, so I guess I'll find out eventually.




Chip and pin is what is used outside the USA. Our cards are chip and
signature. Go to A foreign country, and you enter a PIN number and not
sign a receipt.

Credit Card Fraud
 

On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:55:34 -0500, wrote:

Bear in mind banks never eat a dime of fraud. It is buried in your
fees and they make a profit based on their gross. They don't care it
is just vig on their business.

===

That's not really true. It cuts into the bottom line of a very cost
sensitive business. All of the banks and card companies have invested
untold millions of dollars in fraud alerting and control systems. It's
a huge operation that is mostly invisible to the general public. The
credit card business is very competetive and fraud not only reduces
profits but also creates reputational risk to the organization as a
whole.

Credit Card Fraud
 

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 20:12:29 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 1:09:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:48:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 06:53:12 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 12/8/2015 7:23 PM, Alex wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 10:13:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/8/2015 10:03 AM, True North wrote:

Happened to me last year at this time. Someone was using my debit
card out in the western US.
At that time I was seldom using it except at ATMs but did buy gas on
the edge of town then the local news reported that a number of
similar victims had come to light around the same time. Took just
over a week for the bank to reimburse my $ 400 something dollars.

I've read that the card scanners used at gas pumps, ATM's and other
locations are replaced with some jerk's scanner that looks like it's the
original. His collects all your card info.

A couple weeks before Christmas is *not* a good time for this to happen.

I tried, this morning, to go to my statement at the bank's site to see
if I could
figure out where this may have happened. But, everything and anything
to do with that
card has been removed from my account.

I was really surprised that the bank, Pentagon Federal, would have
caught that
charge. Perhaps their computers are programmed to compare usage times
and realized I
couldn't have used the card here and in California only a couple hours
later.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Bank of America has declined charges at a local gas station we frequent
often - go figure. On the other hand I have used my card during the
same hour my wife was in another state using her card with the same
number and we were both away from home.
My wife was at a gas station, put her card in, pumped $1 before
noticing the cash price was cheaper. She stopped and bought the rest
with cash. I got a call about the $1 charge,they said thieves sometimes
test a card with a small charge.
Mikek
They do. The last time I had a card used fraudulently, I had left it at Safeway. By
the time I realized I'd left it, it had been used for a $1 charge at a local gas
station. The bank told me the same thing.

The cashier was fired withing the next hour, union or no union.
I left my credit/debit card in the ATM in Driggs Idaho and went off to
Jackson Wy for the day.
When I figured out it was missing I went back to the bank and the
manager had it. They said they were waiting for me before they voided
it. A customer found it and turned it in. If I was on the East coast I
would expect to have it maxed out.
I pulled up at an ATM right as another car was leaving. The ATM was asking if I wanted to make another transaction! I hit no and pulled the card out. It was someone I knew so I took it to them after I made my withdrawal. They were very thankful. :)


The ATM at my local bank makes you take the card out before you can
proceed. They should all be that way.

The original designs were set up that way so they could retain a "bad"
card in the machine. Now they have a lot that you just swipe like a
POS.

Credit Card Fraud
 

On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 21:30:46 -0500,
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:55:34 -0500, wrote:

Bear in mind banks never eat a dime of fraud. It is buried in your
fees and they make a profit based on their gross. They don't care it
is just vig on their business.

===

That's not really true. It cuts into the bottom line of a very cost
sensitive business. All of the banks and card companies have invested
untold millions of dollars in fraud alerting and control systems. It's
a huge operation that is mostly invisible to the general public. The
credit card business is very competetive and fraud not only reduces
profits but also creates reputational risk to the organization as a
whole.

It is still something they budget for and the fees are adjusted to
cover it. I would agree that the bank with the lowest fraud rate might
offer better terms but the high risk banks have the highest rates and
marginal customers still pay them.

Credit Card Fraud
 

wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 20:12:29 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 1:09:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:48:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 06:53:12 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 12/8/2015 7:23 PM, Alex wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 10:13:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/8/2015 10:03 AM, True North wrote:

Happened to me last year at this time. Someone was using my debit
card out in the western US.
At that time I was seldom using it except at ATMs but did buy gas on
the edge of town then the local news reported that a number of
similar victims had come to light around the same time. Took just
over a week for the bank to reimburse my $ 400 something dollars.

I've read that the card scanners used at gas pumps, ATM's and other
locations are replaced with some jerk's scanner that looks like it's the
original. His collects all your card info.

A couple weeks before Christmas is *not* a good time for this to happen.

I tried, this morning, to go to my statement at the bank's site to see
if I could
figure out where this may have happened. But, everything and anything
to do with that
card has been removed from my account.

I was really surprised that the bank, Pentagon Federal, would have
caught that
charge. Perhaps their computers are programmed to compare usage times
and realized I
couldn't have used the card here and in California only a couple hours
later.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Bank of America has declined charges at a local gas station we frequent
often - go figure. On the other hand I have used my card during the
same hour my wife was in another state using her card with the same
number and we were both away from home.
My wife was at a gas station, put her card in, pumped $1 before
noticing the cash price was cheaper. She stopped and bought the rest
with cash. I got a call about the $1 charge,they said thieves sometimes
test a card with a small charge.
Mikek
They do. The last time I had a card used fraudulently, I had left it at Safeway. By
the time I realized I'd left it, it had been used for a $1 charge at a local gas
station. The bank told me the same thing.

The cashier was fired withing the next hour, union or no union.
I left my credit/debit card in the ATM in Driggs Idaho and went off to
Jackson Wy for the day.
When I figured out it was missing I went back to the bank and the
manager had it. They said they were waiting for me before they voided
it. A customer found it and turned it in. If I was on the East coast I
would expect to have it maxed out.
I pulled up at an ATM right as another car was leaving. The ATM was
asking if I wanted to make another transaction! I hit no and pulled
the card out. It was someone I knew so I took it to them after I made
my withdrawal. They were very thankful. :)


The ATM at my local bank makes you take the card out before you can
proceed. They should all be that way.

The original designs were set up that way so they could retain a "bad"
card in the machine. Now they have a lot that you just swipe like a
POS.


Best way I saw was in Europe. Card was ejected and you had to remove
before the money was dispensed.

Credit Card Fraud
 

On 12/9/2015 9:01 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/9/2015 2:39 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 1:19:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 12:49:38 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 09:07:16 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 11:48:09 AM UTC-5, Califbill wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 7:28:38 AM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 20:30:06 -0500, Alex wrote:

wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 11:24:40 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/8/2015 11:03 AM, amdx wrote:
On 12/8/2015 8:20 AM, John H. wrote:
So yesterday evening I get a call from my bank asking about my credit
card usage. Not
trusting the caller, I called the bank. Sure enough, my credit card
information had
been used at a Shell station in California for a $110 purchase. The
actual card was
still in my billfold, so somehow they got the number.

How? I don't know. But the card is cancelled. Right when I'm about to
order Christmas
presents. Pain in the ass. Luckily, the bank will get me a new card in
two days.

So...watch yourself.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

When my daughter was off at college we had fraud on our card twice.
The first time about a Red Roof stay, $100 of stuff at a CVS and a
$200 steak dinner.
The second time, a bunch of around $50 charges of Apple tunes.
Replaced the card both times.
There seemed to be a lot of that happening around the college town,
but the fraudulent charges happened in a different city.

This fraud crap is costing all of us, in the way of higher cost goods.
I hope the new cards they are coming out with help contain fraud.

Mikek


I've been getting replacement cards with the new "chip" embedded in
them. So far though, I have not found any place that uses them yet.
They still swipe the magnetic strip.
I've used my chip at Lowes a couple of times. It may be more secure,
but it's slower and a bit of a PITA as compared to just swiping.


I didn't find it to be slower. They slide it in the machine rather than
swiping. Same thing in my experience.

Well just push it in the slot and pull it right back out, like in swiping, and see
who gets yelled at by the cashier!

You gotta wait for the machine to tell you it's OK to remove your card or you'll get
your damn hand slapped.

It takes longer.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

That was my experience. You put it in, wait, OK the charges, wait a bit
longer, then you can remove it.


Overall, is the time much different than a swipe and waiting for the
receipt and signing?

To me it seems a bit longer. The biggest thing is that it's
intolerant of removing your card too soon. I'd think that once it
reads the chip, and that should take less than a second, it would be
done with your card. That's seemingly not the case.

ditto, but I've never timed it.

You would need to use a lot of samples to know much because network
traffic will make a difference on both of them, It gets a lot slower
when a lot of people are shopping ... like now.

They may still do that, but:

"One of the benefits of chip and PIN technology is that the card reader
does not have to be connected to a phone or Internet line to process the
charge. With magnetic stripe cards, the card reader must "talk" with the
credit card company before authorizing the charge. (In the old days,
cashiers would call in the charge over the phone.) In places with slow
telephony networks, chip and PIN terminals can work offline, processing
the charge using the chip alone and then authorizing the charges in bulk
at the end of the day."

Interesting.



What PIN? I've received some new replacement cards with the chip but I
didn't see or read anything about a PIN number being required to use
them. Haven't tried any of them yet, so I guess I'll find out eventually.




Chip and pin is what is used outside the USA. Our cards are chip and
signature. Go to A foreign country, and you enter a PIN number and not
sign a receipt.


Thanks.

Credit Card Fraud
 

On 12/9/2015 6:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 17:14:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:


What PIN? I've received some new replacement cards with the chip but I
didn't see or read anything about a PIN number being required to use
them. Haven't tried any of them yet, so I guess I'll find out eventually.


A PIN is necessary for ATMs, but I've not been asked for one any other place.

It is a chip feature that they are not implementing here yet. In fact
I doubt the chip is really that much of an advancement besides the
fact that anyone with a stripe writer can clone a card.

Bear in mind banks never eat a dime of fraud. It is buried in your
fees and they make a profit based on their gross. They don't care it
is just vig on their business.

We should care.

Chip and pin is supposed to be better, until the crooks figure that
one out. (counterfeit "chip" card with a lot of money on it)



Oh, I think they care otherwise they would not be investing in all the
fraud prevention systems and monitoring software. Despite what you may
believe, we still have a competition based business world.

Credit Card Fraud
 

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 02:01:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/9/2015 6:55 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 17:14:23 -0500, John H.
wrote:


What PIN? I've received some new replacement cards with the chip but I
didn't see or read anything about a PIN number being required to use
them. Haven't tried any of them yet, so I guess I'll find out eventually.


A PIN is necessary for ATMs, but I've not been asked for one any other place.

It is a chip feature that they are not implementing here yet. In fact
I doubt the chip is really that much of an advancement besides the
fact that anyone with a stripe writer can clone a card.

Bear in mind banks never eat a dime of fraud. It is buried in your
fees and they make a profit based on their gross. They don't care it
is just vig on their business.

We should care.

Chip and pin is supposed to be better, until the crooks figure that
one out. (counterfeit "chip" card with a lot of money on it)



Oh, I think they care otherwise they would not be investing in all the
fraud prevention systems and monitoring software. Despite what you may
believe, we still have a competition based business world.

I agree they can compete based on a lower fraud rate, thus lower fees
but the bank is still going to recover their expenses.
As we saw in 2009, bad loan decisions represented far more losses than
people scamming credit cards and the tax payer bailed them out.
I am not worried about the banks. I also make a point of keeping a
high enough balance so I don't pay fees

Credit Card Fraud
 

Calif sez....

"Best way I saw was in Europe. *Card was ejected and you had to remove
before the money was dispensed."


Not just Europe...that's how our ATMs work here.