On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the Tacoma..or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.

BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

The Japanese aren't quite as bad but they have some ridiculous
maintenance requirements too. You pretty much have to remove the
engine to replace a cam belt on my Prelude. (take loose the mounts,
lift and tip over about 15-20 degrees along with whatever else you
need to disconnect to do that.)
I don't pay people to work on my stuff very often but I gave this one
to the dealer, a $1000 belt. Our local mechanic just said no.

No wonder they lost the war ;-)

That is about all I have done to the Honda tho other than a few oil
changes and a clutch master cylinder. I did replace the front speakers
the other day but that was just for better tunes.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:33:57 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:57 PM, wrote:

What did it cost?


$350 to bumfuch, tennessee, for the truck driver, plus $129 for the
booking agent. About 600 miles. The one way airfare was about $250.

There's some sort of bidding process for the drivers, which the agent
handles. Very friendly people, Florida based. I'll email you the contact
info if you want.

I may be interested in a guy to move a pontoon boat from Dayton to Ft
Myers

wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the
Tacoma..or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding
Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the
Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.

BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

The Japanese aren't quite as bad but they have some ridiculous
maintenance requirements too. You pretty much have to remove the
engine to replace a cam belt on my Prelude. (take loose the mounts,
lift and tip over about 15-20 degrees along with whatever else you
need to disconnect to do that.)
I don't pay people to work on my stuff very often but I gave this one
to the dealer, a $1000 belt. Our local mechanic just said no.

No wonder they lost the war ;-)

That is about all I have done to the Honda tho other than a few oil
changes and a clutch master cylinder. I did replace the front speakers
the other day but that was just for better tunes.


Bad design when the cam belt needs to be changed before a tuneup is needed.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:46:59 -0800, Califbill billnews wrote:

The Japanese aren't quite as bad but they have some ridiculous
maintenance requirements too. You pretty much have to remove the
engine to replace a cam belt on my Prelude. (take loose the mounts,
lift and tip over about 15-20 degrees along with whatever else you
need to disconnect to do that.)
I don't pay people to work on my stuff very often but I gave this one
to the dealer, a $1000 belt. Our local mechanic just said no.

No wonder they lost the war ;-)


Bad design when the cam belt needs to be changed before a tuneup is needed.

The problem is they made a Civic into a sports car and set the engine
back a several inches to lower the hood profile a bit so the
crankshaft ended up lined right up with the strut instead of in the
wheel well like most other cars. Usually you take off the tire, remove
a few screws to get the wheel well out and it is right there. This was
a 2 hour job on our old Accord.

On 11/17/15 3:41 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:33:57 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:57 PM, wrote:

What did it cost?


$350 to bumfuch, tennessee, for the truck driver, plus $129 for the
booking agent. About 600 miles. The one way airfare was about $250.

There's some sort of bidding process for the drivers, which the agent
handles. Very friendly people, Florida based. I'll email you the contact
info if you want.

I may be interested in a guy to move a pontoon boat from Dayton to Ft
Myers


Well, I suspect the right trailer might be an issue, and, of course, the
likelihood your boat will be the only freight. The guy who picked up my
4Runner had at least two more cars to pick up on his way south.

On 11/17/2015 3:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the Tacoma..or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.


BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

BMW makes some superb cars but their complexity, rigid maintenance needs
and constant revisions to the computer system is what drove me away from
them.

Between my wife and I, we had 7 different BMW's over the years including
two M5's (the first of which BMW took back due to too many problems), a
Z4 (wife's), a 740, a 750, a 335ci (wife's) and an X5. Got tired of
all the "special" maintenance requirements, even though they were
covered with the purchase. The M5's were the worst. Constant problems
with the software which controlled just about everything.

I left the 750 in our garage in Florida for one summer that we were not
there. Put a BMW battery minder (trickle charger) on it. Came back the
next fall and it was dead. I then discovered it had *two* batteries.
A BMW dealership came and put it on a flatbed to be serviced and have
new batteries installed. Batteries were not covered by warranty. $900.

Went back to simple Ford products. They do the job, maybe not in as an
exciting fashion but don't require much more than regular oil changes.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 16:41:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 11/17/2015 3:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the Tacoma..or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.


BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

BMW makes some superb cars but their complexity, rigid maintenance needs
and constant revisions to the computer system is what drove me away from
them.

Between my wife and I, we had 7 different BMW's over the years including
two M5's (the first of which BMW took back due to too many problems), a
Z4 (wife's), a 740, a 750, a 335ci (wife's) and an X5. Got tired of
all the "special" maintenance requirements, even though they were
covered with the purchase. The M5's were the worst. Constant problems
with the software which controlled just about everything.

I left the 750 in our garage in Florida for one summer that we were not
there. Put a BMW battery minder (trickle charger) on it. Came back the
next fall and it was dead. I then discovered it had *two* batteries.
A BMW dealership came and put it on a flatbed to be serviced and have
new batteries installed. Batteries were not covered by warranty. $900.

Went back to simple Ford products. They do the job, maybe not in as an
exciting fashion but don't require much more than regular oil changes.

My next car will be an Audi A5. I love 'em.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 4:41:46 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/17/2015 3:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the Tacoma...or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.


BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

BMW makes some superb cars but their complexity, rigid maintenance needs
and constant revisions to the computer system is what drove me away from
them.

Between my wife and I, we had 7 different BMW's over the years including
two M5's (the first of which BMW took back due to too many problems), a
Z4 (wife's), a 740, a 750, a 335ci (wife's) and an X5. Got tired of
all the "special" maintenance requirements, even though they were
covered with the purchase. The M5's were the worst. Constant problems
with the software which controlled just about everything.

I left the 750 in our garage in Florida for one summer that we were not
there. Put a BMW battery minder (trickle charger) on it. Came back the
next fall and it was dead. I then discovered it had *two* batteries.
A BMW dealership came and put it on a flatbed to be serviced and have
new batteries installed. Batteries were not covered by warranty. $900.

Went back to simple Ford products. They do the job, maybe not in as an
exciting fashion but don't require much more than regular oil changes.

Yeouch! They saw you coming. Nothing special about the batteries, you can pick up a "gold" top of the line battery for $150. Ten minute job to change it. My old Audi burned out a headlight, and the stealership wanted $250 to put a new bulb in. I bought the bulb off Amazon for about $50 and did it myself in about 45 minutes. Had to remove the air filter box and air pipe to the intake to get to the back of the headlamp, but it was no big deal..

My new Audi requires an oil change every 10,000. I bought the first four services when I bought the car at a reduced price. There's no other special service required for it. I do realize that they are, like BMW's, more expensive to repair out of warranty than many other vehicles. When the 5yr, 100,000 mile CPO warranty runs out, it'll be someone else's problem.

Otherwise, it just like any other car... wears brakes, tires, and other "consumables" just like anything else. It's just really nice while its doing it.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 4:57:29 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 16:41:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 11/17/2015 3:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the Tacoma...or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.


BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

BMW makes some superb cars but their complexity, rigid maintenance needs
and constant revisions to the computer system is what drove me away from
them.

Between my wife and I, we had 7 different BMW's over the years including
two M5's (the first of which BMW took back due to too many problems), a
Z4 (wife's), a 740, a 750, a 335ci (wife's) and an X5. Got tired of
all the "special" maintenance requirements, even though they were
covered with the purchase. The M5's were the worst. Constant problems
with the software which controlled just about everything.

I left the 750 in our garage in Florida for one summer that we were not
there. Put a BMW battery minder (trickle charger) on it. Came back the
next fall and it was dead. I then discovered it had *two* batteries.
A BMW dealership came and put it on a flatbed to be serviced and have
new batteries installed. Batteries were not covered by warranty. $900.

Went back to simple Ford products. They do the job, maybe not in as an
exciting fashion but don't require much more than regular oil changes.

My next car will be an Audi A5. I love 'em.

The A5 is a two door A4, too small for me. I want the A7, it's a fastback version of the A6. An S7 would be even better, but they think too much of them.

On 11/17/2015 5:03 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 4:41:46 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/17/2015 3:39 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:45:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 1:04 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:48:08 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 11/17/15 12:43 PM, True North wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 November 2015 12:51:11 UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/oe58qgs


On the way to his new owner...

Looks in good shape. I believe the 4Runner was based on the Tacoma..or what came before it, maybe a T100??
I thought about one for a minute or two but felt the smoother riding Highlander would suit me and the boss a bit better. Believe the Highlander was based originally on the Camray.


Yeah, I believe the 4Runner is built on the Tacoma chassis. Separate
frame and body, not monocoupe. It really was a great vehicle, with
absolutely no problems and only the usual maintenance items - tires,
wiper blades, a battery, brakes...that's about it. Toyota does it right,
most of the time.

We have had pretty good luck with Hondas but we also seem to do well
with Fords.. We paid $3500 for old "brownie", drove it for 10 years
and sold it for almost $5000 (Thanks Barack)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Brownie.jpg

I also had 2 E-150 Econolines that treated me well and the 2000 Sport
Trak we have now is still doing well. My 97 Prelude is still getting
the job done with embarrassingly little maintenance.


I do like the Japanese approach to ordinary cars. Toyota, Honda, Nissan,
et cetera, seem to do a nice job. My sister in law has an Audi, and when
it needs a repair, the labor and parts charges seem outrageous, and the
damned thing really eats tires. One of the guys down the street has a
"5" series BMW, and, to me, it seems entirely too clever and
over-engineered. My sports car is that way, too, but the mileage is low,
it lives in the garage, and only goes out on nice days.


BMW is ridiculous. A battery is something like $500.
Everything is simply unnecessary complication to a fairly simple task.

BMW makes some superb cars but their complexity, rigid maintenance needs
and constant revisions to the computer system is what drove me away from
them.

Between my wife and I, we had 7 different BMW's over the years including
two M5's (the first of which BMW took back due to too many problems), a
Z4 (wife's), a 740, a 750, a 335ci (wife's) and an X5. Got tired of
all the "special" maintenance requirements, even though they were
covered with the purchase. The M5's were the worst. Constant problems
with the software which controlled just about everything.

I left the 750 in our garage in Florida for one summer that we were not
there. Put a BMW battery minder (trickle charger) on it. Came back the
next fall and it was dead. I then discovered it had *two* batteries.
A BMW dealership came and put it on a flatbed to be serviced and have
new batteries installed. Batteries were not covered by warranty. $900.

Went back to simple Ford products. They do the job, maybe not in as an
exciting fashion but don't require much more than regular oil changes.

Yeouch! They saw you coming. Nothing special about the batteries, you can pick up a "gold" top of the line battery for $150. Ten minute job to change it. My old Audi burned out a headlight, and the stealership wanted $250 to put a new bulb in. I bought the bulb off Amazon for about $50 and did it myself in about 45 minutes. Had to remove the air filter box and air pipe to the intake to get to the back of the headlamp, but it was no big deal.

My new Audi requires an oil change every 10,000. I bought the first four services when I bought the car at a reduced price. There's no other special service required for it. I do realize that they are, like BMW's, more expensive to repair out of warranty than many other vehicles. When the 5yr, 100,000 mile CPO warranty runs out, it'll be someone else's problem.

Otherwise, it just like any other car... wears brakes, tires, and other "consumables" just like anything else. It's just really nice while its doing it.



No question they are nice cars. I enjoyed driving them but too many
issues ... especially with the M5's. I bought it (them) to drive and
enjoy, not to be constantly going back to the dealership with computer
problems (red cog of death symbol on dash) and notices for software
updates. The Porsche that I eventually got to replace the last M5 was a
different beast altogether. No fancy computer controls. Just 450 hp
coupled to all wheel drive through a six speed manual transmission. Car
was awesome, trouble free and could run circles around an M5. Well, not
really but it was definitely faster, handled better and got
about 22 mpg on average.