Even if you ignore the loss of reputation, the fines and tort costs of
this diesel cheating debacle could cost them $40 billion or more. (the
emphasis on "more")
They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)
Now other countries may be reaching the same conclusion so we can't
simply dump them abroad.

It is a stinky problem for them and Germany as a whole since VW is a
big part of their economy.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:59:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

The question is whether they can actually make them perform at all
over the operating range of the vehicle with the mods.
The test is a pretty narrow band of what a car does. The EPA will be
looking a lot closer than a state test.
"Hacking" them would also be a thing that you had to do every year
both ways, when you get your test.

If EPA black lists the car, the state will take the tags and the feds
might actually come looking for the car. I know a guy who had a "gray
market" BMW, he got caught and it cost him almost as much as the car
was worth to get it US certified. The VIN rang a bell when he tried to
buy tags.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:59:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

Now I am hearing rumors that the EPA is looking at the other VW cars
(Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini etc) to see if they are cheating too. It
is hard to believe that they spent all this time on a software trick
like this and only used it once.
I wonder how some of those cars perform in "more power" mode when it
is a rich guy who doesn't care about the fuel gauge, only seeing the
speedometer move..

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:37:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:59:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

The question is whether they can actually make them perform at all
over the operating range of the vehicle with the mods.
The test is a pretty narrow band of what a car does. The EPA will be
looking a lot closer than a state test.
"Hacking" them would also be a thing that you had to do every year
both ways, when you get your test.

Not all states test every year. SC stopped testing a few years ago.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:58:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:37:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:59:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

The question is whether they can actually make them perform at all
over the operating range of the vehicle with the mods.
The test is a pretty narrow band of what a car does. The EPA will be
looking a lot closer than a state test.
"Hacking" them would also be a thing that you had to do every year
both ways, when you get your test.

Not all states test every year. SC stopped testing a few years ago.

===

As far as I know Florida does not test at all.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 18:58:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 12:37:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:59:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

The question is whether they can actually make them perform at all
over the operating range of the vehicle with the mods.
The test is a pretty narrow band of what a car does. The EPA will be
looking a lot closer than a state test.
"Hacking" them would also be a thing that you had to do every year
both ways, when you get your test.

Not all states test every year. SC stopped testing a few years ago.

Florida is not testing cars either except in a few overpopulated
cities.
Some states also only scan the computer for codes so this may actually
be more wide spread than we think.

The problem is that if the EPA decertified the car, they can keep you
from using it on the road in the US. That will be by VIN, not by state
laws.
This may be an unconstitutional overreach by EPA but that is not
unusual.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 22:27:54 -0400,
wrote:


As far as I know Florida does not test at all.

I looked and they did stop it based on the air quality measurements.
It used to just be the big cities (Orlando, Jax, Tambay and the SE
coast)

On 10/15/2015 9:36 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:59:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 11:35:13 -0400, wrote:

They still have not figured out how to deal with all of the
non-conforming cars in the US that suddenly became scrap metal (you
can't legally drive them here)

===

It should be easy enough to reprogram the computer to make them
conform. They won't have the same power and economy however. There
will no doubt be black market mods to reset them back after the dealer
"de-powers" them. I suspect many will just continue to drive them as
is.

Now I am hearing rumors that the EPA is looking at the other VW cars
(Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini etc) to see if they are cheating too. It
is hard to believe that they spent all this time on a software trick
like this and only used it once.
I wonder how some of those cars perform in "more power" mode when it
is a rich guy who doesn't care about the fuel gauge, only seeing the
speedometer move..



The initial reports I heard included some Porsche models ... which is
owned by VW. Also, only diesel powered cars are affected, not gas, as
I understand it.

On 10/15/2015 11:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2015 22:27:54 -0400,
wrote:


As far as I know Florida does not test at all.

I looked and they did stop it based on the air quality measurements.
It used to just be the big cities (Orlando, Jax, Tambay and the SE
coast)



I was surprised that Florida didn't require an emissions or safety
inspection at all back in 2001 when we first bought a house down there.

Massachusetts used to have a yearly safety and emissions test that
included putting your car on a dynamometer and measuring the emissions
from the exhaust system at various speeds and loads. The state did away
with the active emission test a few years ago and now just rely
on the computer read out from the OBD. Still have to undergo a
general safety inspection every year though. Lights, ball joints,
tires, exhaust, etc.