Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!

On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?

On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.

On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:20 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 4:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 2:52 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
On 10/12/15 10:17 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:38:40 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 9:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:15:58 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 7:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:42:16 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/11/2015 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 11:19:16 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 10/11/15 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:27:37 -0400, Keyser Söze
g infrastructure.


I will give you half of that. I agree some of the money could be spent
on infrastructure but you would be trading high tech jobs for blue
collar construction jobs.
We wouldn't need as much of that education you are talking about.
You don't need a bachelors degree to run a loader.



Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


Education isn't a singular pursuit. Foremost is the need for an
education, professional or vocational, in order to be self sufficient,
earn a living, provide for a family, be a contributing member of society
and not be dependent on everyone else for survival. The need for this
level of education is drilled into every kid's head at a young age.

Then there's education for pleasure and intellectual curiosity. That's
secondary.

General liberal arts is a good example.



Harry thinks that in an economy where we have the lowest labor
participation rate since the end of WWII and the massive loss of white
collar middle class jobs, that we need more people coming out of
college without any real marketable skills and a huge debt, simply
because they had a pursuit of higher learning.


And once again, your opinion of what I think is completely wrong. You
should just give up on these "projections" of yours. I think for some
students, the pursuit of knowledge and the hope of making a contribution
to the bank of knowledge is purpose enough.

It wasn't a projection. I was simply referencing your quote

Education is a pursuit on its own...as we have discussed before, I think
there is far more use for education than learning a trade.


In this economic climate, kids need the tools to find a job. They can
learn all about more esoteric things after they are gainfully employed
Their employer might even kick some money in if they can see the same
value in liberal arts as you do.



Why don't we just leave it at the fact that you have no appreciation for
intellectual pursuits that don't produce significant amounts of money,
and that you believe rigorous thinking is an esoteric pursuit.

After all, what use have we for someone like Leonardo da Vinci and his
students?

Just have the drones line up for their jobs at The Corporation each
morning so they can produce their daily quota of widgets and widget ideas.

I have pursued knowledge in all sorts of fields but it was after I was
able to feed myself. I know a lot of stuff about a lot of different
things and I am not afraid to try anything.

I didn't have the catholic church or rich parents to feed me.

These days, the idea that you need to pay someone tens of thousands of
dollars a year to learn something is ridiculous. there is so much
college level information on the internet that the only reason you
would go to a university would be to get that piece of paper, in hopes
that it would lead to that job making widgets.

If you simply seek the information for your own enlightenment, it is
free.


You don't understand the college experience. It's not just "the
information," and, no, I am not referring to fraternity parties.


You want to learn esoteric facts for self worth, pay for that education.
If the rest of society is paying the bills, they should get a return on
those investments. I take classes these days for fun and to learn
something new. But why should the taxpayers pick up 80% of the cost of me
taking a guitar class? And way to much overhead in universities these
days, as well as the primary schools. Some university had Mexican Food Day
in e cafeteria, been doing it for years. Two students complained, as was
degrading to Mexicans. So the "Associate executive Vice President for
Student Affairs" apologized. First, tell the complainers to suck it up.
And if you have to have titles like that VP, you have way too many
administrators!



"Esoteric facts for self worth..."

Hehehe.

Gotta love rec.bloats.


And what I s wrong about not having the public pay for someone's desire the
learn some great Trivial Pursuit answers, while we end up paying them
welfare when they can not find a job playing Trivial Pursuit after they
graduate?



Hey, Bilious, if you think the answer is Trivial Pursuit, then you don't
understand the questions. Gotta love rec.bloats.


Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.




Actually mine is an Electro-mechanical discipline. And is never obsolete.
May need some continuing education, which I did. But other than faster,
and smaller, most notably is still appropriate. Actually, they big want
these days, is for old analog engineers.

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:02:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Nope, I got an Engineering degree. Yours is the Trivial Pursuit path.


Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.

===

That's not really true except at the nuts and bolts device level. All
engineering, and especially electrical, is actually the study of
applied mathematics. That never becomes obsolete because the
underlying phenomena are based on the laws of physics.

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 21:02:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Posit: a degree in electrical engineering is obsolete the day it is
issued. A degree in mechanical engineering, however, is not.

That is exactly the reason why IBM guys laughed at "computer science"
degrees.
One of my customers was Montgomery College and I used to stick my head
in those classes occasionally. It was more like a "computer history"
class, talking about crap, nobody cared about.
These kids were interested in getting a system analyst job and they
were not getting what they needed from the college.
OTOH I had my own "classes" with a few of the smart kids.
My information was fresh off the presses at IBM schools.

I was asked to stop when one of the kids hacked into the operating
system of the college with a little assembler language routine I was
using in a diagnostic program I wrote. (hint:, look at the STIXIT
instruction and the notation about the save file in "Supervisor and
I/O macros"). ;-)