Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

"After Clinton turned over her private email server to the FBI, federal
investigators found that it has been effectively wiped clean."

I guess she learned from Lois Lerner.
I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe this.
Mikek

Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:08:31 -0500, amdx wrote:

"After Clinton turned over her private email server to the FBI, federal
investigators found that it has been effectively wiped clean."

I guess she learned from Lois Lerner.
I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe this.
Mikek


The fact that it was wiped clean indicates a conscious effort to
deceive. In normal use, there should be residual data in the unused
sectors.
It is like taking your car to the inspection station with a wiped ECU.
They won't buy that either.

Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

On 8/14/2015 12:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:08:31 -0500, amdx wrote:

"After Clinton turned over her private email server to the FBI, federal
investigators found that it has been effectively wiped clean."

I guess she learned from Lois Lerner.
I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe this.
Mikek


The fact that it was wiped clean indicates a conscious effort to
deceive. In normal use, there should be residual data in the unused
sectors.
It is like taking your car to the inspection station with a wiped ECU.
They won't buy that either.


That was the point I was trying to make earlier but Harry got hung up in
trying to educate me about how simple it is to do with third party
software available.

It's the fact that Hilary felt it was necessary to do it at all is what
is important given the time frame she had to think and consult with
others about it. She dragged her feet for a long time, at first
refusing to turn the server(s) over. She knew what the issue was and
what the FBI would be looking for. She previously claimed that all that
remained on them were innocent discussions about upcoming weddings, etc.
If she had nothing to hide it would have been better to leave those
emails intact to add credibility to her claims. Instead, she had the
drives wiped clean.

Having a government security clearance with official access and custody
of classified info or documents is serious business. If she were a
military member or a mere mortal civilian she would be subject to
prosecution. But not Hillary. She feels she's above the law and
doesn't have to play by the rules.

And she lies about it.

Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

On 8/14/15 3:41 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/14/2015 12:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:08:31 -0500, amdx wrote:

"After Clinton turned over her private email server to the FBI, federal
investigators found that it has been effectively wiped clean."

I guess she learned from Lois Lerner.
I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe this.
Mikek


The fact that it was wiped clean indicates a conscious effort to
deceive. In normal use, there should be residual data in the unused
sectors.
It is like taking your car to the inspection station with a wiped ECU.
They won't buy that either.


That was the point I was trying to make earlier but Harry got hung up in
trying to educate me about how simple it is to do with third party
software available.

It's the fact that Hilary felt it was necessary to do it at all is what
is important given the time frame she had to think and consult with
others about it. She dragged her feet for a long time, at first
refusing to turn the server(s) over. She knew what the issue was and
what the FBI would be looking for. She previously claimed that all that
remained on them were innocent discussions about upcoming weddings, etc.
If she had nothing to hide it would have been better to leave those
emails intact to add credibility to her claims. Instead, she had the
drives wiped clean.

Having a government security clearance with official access and custody
of classified info or documents is serious business. If she were a
military member or a mere mortal civilian she would be subject to
prosecution. But not Hillary. She feels she's above the law and
doesn't have to play by the rules.

And she lies about it.



The feigned outrage of you Republicans over this issue is really funny
to observe. It's Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi all over again as the
desperation sets in over your huge string of incompetent right-wing
zealots and the Trumpster who want your party's nomination.

Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

On Friday, August 14, 2015 at 3:41:07 AM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/14/2015 12:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:08:31 -0500, amdx wrote:

"After Clinton turned over her private email server to the FBI, federal
investigators found that it has been effectively wiped clean."

I guess she learned from Lois Lerner.
I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe this.
Mikek


The fact that it was wiped clean indicates a conscious effort to
deceive. In normal use, there should be residual data in the unused
sectors.
It is like taking your car to the inspection station with a wiped ECU.
They won't buy that either.


That was the point I was trying to make earlier but Harry got hung up in
trying to educate me about how simple it is to do with third party
software available.

It's the fact that Hilary felt it was necessary to do it at all is what
is important given the time frame she had to think and consult with
others about it. She dragged her feet for a long time, at first
refusing to turn the server(s) over. She knew what the issue was and
what the FBI would be looking for. She previously claimed that all that
remained on them were innocent discussions about upcoming weddings, etc.
If she had nothing to hide it would have been better to leave those
emails intact to add credibility to her claims. Instead, she had the
drives wiped clean.

Having a government security clearance with official access and custody
of classified info or documents is serious business. If she were a
military member or a mere mortal civilian she would be subject to
prosecution. But not Hillary. She feels she's above the law and
doesn't have to play by the rules.

And she lies about it.

Hillary is toast. And as some would say... that's delicious. :)

Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

On 8/14/15 12:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:08:31 -0500, amdx wrote:

"After Clinton turned over her private email server to the FBI, federal
investigators found that it has been effectively wiped clean."

I guess she learned from Lois Lerner.
I'm at a loss for words, I can't believe this.
Mikek


The fact that it was wiped clean indicates a conscious effort to
deceive. In normal use, there should be residual data in the unused
sectors.
It is like taking your car to the inspection station with a wiped ECU.
They won't buy that either.



No doubt this will grease the skids for your favorite Loonytarian
presidential wannabe who has no more chance of being elected than your
doggie.

Do you hear anything about Hillary's Server?
 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 07:32:32 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

No doubt this will grease the skids for your favorite Loonytarian

It is a telling thing about you that you equate "liberty" with
"loony".
I imagine you would have been a fascist in the 30s.
They called themselves social democrats too.

It seems that when that 3 AM phone call came in from Libya that she choose to do nothing and people died as a result of her inaction. And she made such a big deal during the 2008 election cycle about who would be able to handle such a call.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On 8/16/2015 1:24 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.






Congratulations and enjoy it!

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 06:24:43 +0100, RGrew176
wrote:


It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.

===

Looks good. Hope your happy with it and welcome back to the group.

The fun never stops!

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Very good man! Hope you can enjoy it. Your first pic didn't work for me but the second (aft) pic did. That's a nice specimen. The Orkin spider spray stuff that you can get from walmart, works really well on the critters. Just mist it around in the strategic spots and they're gone in a few hours.

https://www.google.com/search?q=orki...72025251716141

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On 8/16/2015 1:24 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.




It's a good omen when the wife orders you to buy a boat. :-)
Happy boating.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 06:24:43 +0100, RGrew176
wrote:


It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 06:24:43 +0100, RGrew176
wrote:


It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 7:42:06 AM UTC-7, Justan Olphat wrote:
On 8/16/2015 1:24 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.




It's a good omen when the wife orders you to buy a boat. :-)
Happy boating.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Yes, yes it is!

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 8:38:39 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 06:24:43 +0100, RGrew176
wrote:


It was quite the journey but finally I can say I am back on the
waterways again. Its been 4 years and 5 days since I last owned a boat.
When the last boat departed I thought I was done with boating. But,
alas, that was not in the cards. Last August the boat bug bit me again
and I started searching for a new to me boat. I took my time and at
least here in Michigan it is still a buyers market. I initially wanted
to spend no more than 10K. From August to May that was my plan.

In February I found a nice looking 1987 Chris Craft 291 Catalina. I made
an offer and it was accepted. I had to wait until spring for the survey
and sea trial. In May I drove up with the wife to take another look at
the boat. I noticed a chunk of the hull amidships on the port side had
dropped off. It was a rather large chunk of fiberglass so I pulled my
offer. I did not want to take any chances that were was some sort of
unseen and undiagnosed hull damage. While there my wife saw on the wall
where they had their listings a 1981 Carver 3007 Aft Cabin model boat so
she said we should go take a look at it.

On June 6th we drove to where the boat was located. Within a couple of
minutes my wife said to me, buy it. I made an offer and the broker took
it and called the seller. She countered and then we recountered and our
offer was accepted. Step one was completed. Now it was on to the survey
and sea trial.

On June 18th I showed up and the broker and surveyor were there. The
surveyor spent about 2 hours going over the boat peeking into every
opening he could find. Then we took the boat out into Lake Erie for its
sea trial. We ran into a problem. The port engine would only make 2200
RPM. The starboard engine made 3700 RPM. The surveyor stated prior to
going out he expected the engines to make at least 4200 RPM each. They
both did not max out so I decided not to have the boat pulled for the
hull survey since at that time I was not sure if I was going to go
through with the purchase.

The broker called the seller with the bad news. The seller stated that
the issues with the engines would be taken care of. It took a couple of
weeks before the issues were corrected. The mechanic said he found both
fuel filters were gunked up, his words. He then took the boat out again
and while it performed better they still did not perform as they should
have. So it was back to the mechanic. He then checked both engines for
compression and both engines were well within spec. Next he tuned both
engines and he took it out again to sea trial it. That time both engines
passed his muster.

I scheduled a followup sea trial for August 5th. The broker, surveyor
and myself boarded once again. We headed out into Lake Erie once again
to sea trial the boat. This time both engines reached 4200 RPM's. They
are 270 Crusaders. The surveyor was happy with the RPM's but not with
the top end speed. We only managed 23 MPH and the surveyor said this
boat should hit at least 30 MPH. We headed back to the marina to have
the boat pulled for the hull survey. When the boat was pulled from the
water we saw the reason for the low top end. The bottom of the whole
hull was coated with at least 3" of zebra mussels. That would certainly
slow a boat down. I had the marina powerwash the hull to remove the
mussels. We did not have time to go out into the lake again to check the
top speed but I am certain it will perform better the next time I take
her out into the lake.

Fast forward to Friday, August 14th. At 2 PM I drove to the brokers to
hand over a check for payment of the purchase. I was a happy camper once
again. This is what I ended up buying:

[image: http://i61.tinypic.com/qxusm0.jpg]

[image: http://i62.tinypic.com/2cntbgh.jpg]

Friday evening I drove to where the boat is docked. I am spending my
first weekend aboard. Since the boat has been setting pretty much all
season there is quite the population of spiders aboard. Last night I
zapped 27 of the little buggers and tonight I found another 4 more. I
wanted to kill as many of them as possible so I did not get bitten while
sleeping. All of them have been in the main salon area. I have not found
any in the aft cabin where I sleep or the head or forward cabin. I think
that getting 31 of them I have eliminated most of the inside population.
My fingers are crossed. I will be going home later today but I plan to
be back onboard on Wednesday. We'll see if there are any more to be
zapped. I will keep an eye out for any babies.

When I sea trialed the boat I found that the pump that supplies the
freshwater from the onboard tanks is bad. The seller chose not to put
any more money into the boat after getting the engines fixed and I can
certainly understand her feelings. I talked it over with a couple of
mechanics and they both said don't let a failed pump keep you from
buying a decent and nice looking boat. I did decide to go ahead with the
purchase knowing I will be replacing the pump. I will be ordering it
later today so it will be here when I arrive back to the boat on
Wednesday. Its going to be a pain in the behind fixing it. It looks like
there are 4 screws holding the pump to the mounting and there are
several hoses and wires that will have to be reckoned with. I am
debating whether to have someone make the installation or do it myself.

Anyway, having spent my first weekend aboard I am looking forward to
starting some new boating adventures. Its good to be back on the waters
once again.

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Gas just took an overnight .50c raise here. From 2.30 to 2.80+, but still beats the 4.40 we put up with a while back.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

My boat levels gas. But is still not major expense. $100-130 to store the
boat, $250 insurance, $125 taxes, $3000 for last major repair. We spent 2
weeks boating Vancouver Island earlier this year. $1.30CA a liter for
fuel. Still only cost maybe $500 for 2 weeks fuel. Some would pull the
boat to tow to gas station to save 5 cents a liter. Not worth the trouble.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:17:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

Fuel is my biggest expense but my boat is fully amortized years ago,
insurance is cheap, dockage is free and the amortized cost of my last
motor ended up being about $650 a year including maintenance. (over 10
years) I spent closer to $900 on fuel last year.
The Yamaha I have cost about a grand more but I am not sure how long
it will last and what it will be worth on the back end. I paid $5600
for the Merc 60 and sold it for $1500. The big ticket maintenance
bills were $250 for a HP fuel pump and $300 for 2 seal jobs on the
lower unit. The rest was just routine oil changes and a few cheap
parts. ($50)

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On 8/17/2015 2:08 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:17:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

Fuel is my biggest expense but my boat is fully amortized years ago,
insurance is cheap, dockage is free and the amortized cost of my last
motor ended up being about $650 a year including maintenance. (over 10
years) I spent closer to $900 on fuel last year.
The Yamaha I have cost about a grand more but I am not sure how long
it will last and what it will be worth on the back end. I paid $5600
for the Merc 60 and sold it for $1500. The big ticket maintenance
bills were $250 for a HP fuel pump and $300 for 2 seal jobs on the
lower unit. The rest was just routine oil changes and a few cheap
parts. ($50)




I wonder how many people have true marine insurance on their boats that
will cover the cost of a major oil or fuel spill clean up. The home
insurance policies "riders" don't. It may not be a high risk on a boat
like yours since you don't have a "bilge" but on a larger hulled boat
with fuel tanks (gas or diesel) and inboard engines with oil pans that
can rot it is an issue. Imagine a large fuel tank full of diesel
letting go or an engine oil pan that rots out and dumps 7 gallons (more
if diesel engine) of oil and the bilge pump dutifully pumps it overboard
without your knowledge.

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean
up costs.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Good thought Richard. I know my boat policy has setting like that in it but really not sure. I need to review it.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean
up costs.

===

Friends of ours lost their boat last year (fire) and spilled an
estimated 70 gallons of diesel fuel. The environmental damages and
clean up costs were assessed at something north of $400K.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On 8/17/2015 9:44 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean
up costs.

===

Friends of ours lost their boat last year (fire) and spilled an
estimated 70 gallons of diesel fuel. The environmental damages and
clean up costs were assessed at something north of $400K.



When I first got into boating I had a rider on my homeowner's policy for
the boat. The more I got involved and I learned of the oil spill
laws and how it worked I started to question what exactly the
homeowner's policy covered. Turns out it didn't cover anything as far
as oil spill clean up costs. That's one of the reasons the policies are
so cheap. I switched to a true, marine insurance company.

I see insurance places like Progressive and Gieco offer boat insurance.
I wonder if their policies include oil spill liability. I doubt it.

I think BoatUS has insurance policies that cover oil spill liability.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 8/17/2015 2:08 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:17:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

Fuel is my biggest expense but my boat is fully amortized years ago,
insurance is cheap, dockage is free and the amortized cost of my last
motor ended up being about $650 a year including maintenance. (over 10
years) I spent closer to $900 on fuel last year.
The Yamaha I have cost about a grand more but I am not sure how long
it will last and what it will be worth on the back end. I paid $5600
for the Merc 60 and sold it for $1500. The big ticket maintenance
bills were $250 for a HP fuel pump and $300 for 2 seal jobs on the
lower unit. The rest was just routine oil changes and a few cheap
parts. ($50)




I wonder how many people have true marine insurance on their boats that
will cover the cost of a major oil or fuel spill clean up. The home
insurance policies "riders" don't. It may not be a high risk on a boat
like yours since you don't have a "bilge" but on a larger hulled boat
with fuel tanks (gas or diesel) and inboard engines with oil pans that
can rot it is an issue. Imagine a large fuel tank full of diesel letting
go or an engine oil pan that rots out and dumps 7 gallons (more if diesel
engine) of oil and the bilge pump dutifully pumps it overboard without your knowledge.

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean up costs.

I have BoatUS insurance which is a yacht policy, which gives me $500k in
oil spill. You did wrong having a $2mm liability policy on the boat. I
run $300k liability on all my policies and then have a $2mm umbrella
policy. Saves money. The $2mm now goes across all the policies and is
about $275 a year. The $300k is the minimum they require for umbrella
coverage.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 2:08 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:17:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

Fuel is my biggest expense but my boat is fully amortized years ago,
insurance is cheap, dockage is free and the amortized cost of my last
motor ended up being about $650 a year including maintenance. (over 10
years) I spent closer to $900 on fuel last year.
The Yamaha I have cost about a grand more but I am not sure how long
it will last and what it will be worth on the back end. I paid $5600
for the Merc 60 and sold it for $1500. The big ticket maintenance
bills were $250 for a HP fuel pump and $300 for 2 seal jobs on the
lower unit. The rest was just routine oil changes and a few cheap
parts. ($50)




I wonder how many people have true marine insurance on their boats that
will cover the cost of a major oil or fuel spill clean up. The home
insurance policies "riders" don't. It may not be a high risk on a boat
like yours since you don't have a "bilge" but on a larger hulled boat
with fuel tanks (gas or diesel) and inboard engines with oil pans that
can rot it is an issue. Imagine a large fuel tank full of diesel
letting go or an engine oil pan that rots out and dumps 7 gallons (more
if diesel engine) of oil and the bilge pump dutifully pumps it overboard
without your knowledge.

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean
up costs.

You are right, I do not have anything like that and it is not likely I
would ever be in that spot. I just carry liability and it is about $60
a year.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:11:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 9:44 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean
up costs.

===

Friends of ours lost their boat last year (fire) and spilled an
estimated 70 gallons of diesel fuel. The environmental damages and
clean up costs were assessed at something north of $400K.



When I first got into boating I had a rider on my homeowner's policy for
the boat. The more I got involved and I learned of the oil spill
laws and how it worked I started to question what exactly the
homeowner's policy covered. Turns out it didn't cover anything as far
as oil spill clean up costs. That's one of the reasons the policies are
so cheap. I switched to a true, marine insurance company.

I see insurance places like Progressive and Gieco offer boat insurance.
I wonder if their policies include oil spill liability. I doubt it.

I think BoatUS has insurance policies that cover oil spill liability.

I am with Allstate. I will see.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:05:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 2:08 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:17:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment, rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

Fuel is my biggest expense but my boat is fully amortized years ago,
insurance is cheap, dockage is free and the amortized cost of my last
motor ended up being about $650 a year including maintenance. (over 10
years) I spent closer to $900 on fuel last year.
The Yamaha I have cost about a grand more but I am not sure how long
it will last and what it will be worth on the back end. I paid $5600
for the Merc 60 and sold it for $1500. The big ticket maintenance
bills were $250 for a HP fuel pump and $300 for 2 seal jobs on the
lower unit. The rest was just routine oil changes and a few cheap
parts. ($50)




I wonder how many people have true marine insurance on their boats that
will cover the cost of a major oil or fuel spill clean up. The home
insurance policies "riders" don't. It may not be a high risk on a boat
like yours since you don't have a "bilge" but on a larger hulled boat
with fuel tanks (gas or diesel) and inboard engines with oil pans that
can rot it is an issue. Imagine a large fuel tank full of diesel
letting go or an engine oil pan that rots out and dumps 7 gallons (more
if diesel engine) of oil and the bilge pump dutifully pumps it overboard
without your knowledge.

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill clean
up costs.

You are right, I do not have anything like that and it is not likely I
would ever be in that spot. I just carry liability and it is about $60
a year.

===

There is minimal risk of fuel spill damage with outboards unless you
have large built in tanks. Some of the damage assessments that I've
heard about seem inflated and arbitrary however.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:24:53 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:05:11 -0400, wrote:


You are right, I do not have anything like that and it is not likely I
would ever be in that spot. I just carry liability and it is about $60
a year.

===

There is minimal risk of fuel spill damage with outboards unless you
have large built in tanks. Some of the damage assessments that I've
heard about seem inflated and arbitrary however.

I seldom have more than 10 gallons of gas on board and it is not
likely anyone would see the spill anyway. As bad as gasoline is, you
are not going to have dead shore birds and a ring around the harbor.

Chances are if I had that kind of casualty, the fire would burn most
of it ;-)

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On 8/17/2015 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:24:53 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:05:11 -0400, wrote:


You are right, I do not have anything like that and it is not likely I
would ever be in that spot. I just carry liability and it is about $60
a year.

===

There is minimal risk of fuel spill damage with outboards unless you
have large built in tanks. Some of the damage assessments that I've
heard about seem inflated and arbitrary however.

I seldom have more than 10 gallons of gas on board and it is not
likely anyone would see the spill anyway. As bad as gasoline is, you
are not going to have dead shore birds and a ring around the harbor.

Chances are if I had that kind of casualty, the fire would burn most
of it ;-)



I remember a few years ago the EPA tightened up on the definition of an
oil or fuel spill. Basically, any spillage that formed a sheen on the
water is considered a spill and technically is supposed to be reported.

In reality I don't think many people or marine fuel docks take this very
seriously. A couple of spilled drops of gas out of the fuel nozzle will
create a large "sheen" area. The old trick of having a spray bottle
with water and dishwashing soap usually hides the evidence, although you
can be fined if you get caught doing it.

It's pretty much impossible to completely eliminate *all* traces of
contamination from fuel. Diesels leave a small amount of unburnt fuel
in the exhaust system when they are shut down. Next time you fire the
engines up that unburnt fuel is blown out the exhaust and causes
a noticeable sheen. Every marina I've been to ignores it.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:11:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 2:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:24:53 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:05:11 -0400, wrote:


You are right, I do not have anything like that and it is not likely I
would ever be in that spot. I just carry liability and it is about $60
a year.

===

There is minimal risk of fuel spill damage with outboards unless you
have large built in tanks. Some of the damage assessments that I've
heard about seem inflated and arbitrary however.

I seldom have more than 10 gallons of gas on board and it is not
likely anyone would see the spill anyway. As bad as gasoline is, you
are not going to have dead shore birds and a ring around the harbor.

Chances are if I had that kind of casualty, the fire would burn most
of it ;-)



I remember a few years ago the EPA tightened up on the definition of an
oil or fuel spill. Basically, any spillage that formed a sheen on the
water is considered a spill and technically is supposed to be reported.

In reality I don't think many people or marine fuel docks take this very
seriously. A couple of spilled drops of gas out of the fuel nozzle will
create a large "sheen" area. The old trick of having a spray bottle
with water and dishwashing soap usually hides the evidence, although you
can be fined if you get caught doing it.

It's pretty much impossible to completely eliminate *all* traces of
contamination from fuel. Diesels leave a small amount of unburnt fuel
in the exhaust system when they are shut down. Next time you fire the
engines up that unburnt fuel is blown out the exhaust and causes
a noticeable sheen. Every marina I've been to ignores it.


I am usually pretty careful about spilling anything. It is still
unlikely anyone would see me if I did where I dock and where I go.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

One thing about my area is that there's still a lot of older 2-strokes ****ing away oil fuel mix that nobody pays attention to. Most of the lakes in Illinois still allow the old engines I take it because they're getting fewer and farther between and fisher/sportsmen still put goodly sums into the local coffers with v4 Evinrudes and little 5hp tohotsu's. So there's your oil sheen for you...

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/17/2015 2:08 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:17:08 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:35 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Those are 350 GMs?
That is a solid engine, particularly in fresh water but they can be
thirsty. The good news is gas is getting cheaper. Enjoy your boat.

Talking to a guy in the marina at Ganges, BC, Canada. His comment,
rings
true, fuel is one of the cheaper parts of boating. And he owned an
older
wooden hall trawler.

===

That's very true in my experience, and the less you use your boat, the
more true it is. Even when diesel was at $4/gallon I figured it was
about 40% of expenses while running about 500 hours per year.

Fuel is my biggest expense but my boat is fully amortized years ago,
insurance is cheap, dockage is free and the amortized cost of my last
motor ended up being about $650 a year including maintenance. (over 10
years) I spent closer to $900 on fuel last year.
The Yamaha I have cost about a grand more but I am not sure how long
it will last and what it will be worth on the back end. I paid $5600
for the Merc 60 and sold it for $1500. The big ticket maintenance
bills were $250 for a HP fuel pump and $300 for 2 seal jobs on the
lower unit. The rest was just routine oil changes and a few cheap
parts. ($50)




I wonder how many people have true marine insurance on their boats that
will cover the cost of a major oil or fuel spill clean up. The home
insurance policies "riders" don't. It may not be a high risk on a
boat like yours since you don't have a "bilge" but on a larger hulled
boat with fuel tanks (gas or diesel) and inboard engines with oil pans
that can rot it is an issue. Imagine a large fuel tank full of diesel
letting go or an engine oil pan that rots out and dumps 7 gallons
(more if diesel engine) of oil and the bilge pump dutifully pumps it
overboard without your knowledge.

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats
I had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill
clean up costs.



Mine is some odd number like $253,000. It's based on a formula they
use. I have a $2MM personal umbrella policy and the ownership of my
boats are known and included.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/17/2015 9:44 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill
clean
up costs.

===

Friends of ours lost their boat last year (fire) and spilled an
estimated 70 gallons of diesel fuel. The environmental damages and
clean up costs were assessed at something north of $400K.



When I first got into boating I had a rider on my homeowner's policy
for the boat. The more I got involved and I learned of the oil spill
laws and how it worked I started to question what exactly the
homeowner's policy covered. Turns out it didn't cover anything as far
as oil spill clean up costs. That's one of the reasons the policies
are so cheap. I switched to a true, marine insurance company.

I see insurance places like Progressive and Gieco offer boat insurance.
I wonder if their policies include oil spill liability. I doubt it.

I think BoatUS has insurance policies that cover oil spill liability.


Progressive does.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On 8/17/2015 8:37 PM, Alex wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/17/2015 9:44 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 04:43:25 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I had a $2 million liability marine insurance on the last three boats I
had that would pay out something like $500K for oil/gas/fuel spill
clean
up costs.

===

Friends of ours lost their boat last year (fire) and spilled an
estimated 70 gallons of diesel fuel. The environmental damages and
clean up costs were assessed at something north of $400K.



When I first got into boating I had a rider on my homeowner's policy
for the boat. The more I got involved and I learned of the oil spill
laws and how it worked I started to question what exactly the
homeowner's policy covered. Turns out it didn't cover anything as far
as oil spill clean up costs. That's one of the reasons the policies
are so cheap. I switched to a true, marine insurance company.

I see insurance places like Progressive and Gieco offer boat insurance.
I wonder if their policies include oil spill liability. I doubt it.

I think BoatUS has insurance policies that cover oil spill liability.


Progressive does.

You're right. I just looked at Progressive's website. Oil spill
coverage appears to be optional, but they do have it.

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:51:41 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

One thing about my area is that there's still a lot of older 2-strokes ****ing away oil fuel mix that nobody pays attention to. Most of the lakes in Illinois still allow the old engines I take it because they're getting fewer and farther between and fisher/sportsmen still put goodly sums into the local coffers with v4 Evinrudes and little 5hp tohotsu's. So there's your oil sheen for you...


I would install a "Dawn" injector if I had a 2 stroke. Push a button
on the dash and it squirts some detergent in the water ;-)

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Good idea Greg! That'd also help out the older clapped out i/o mercruisers too. Lol!

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:36:36 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Good idea Greg! That'd also help out the older clapped out i/o mercruisers too. Lol!

===

Not to mention a pair of big old Detroits. :-)

I Am No Longer Boatless
 

Wayne, Perkins comes to mind as well. Lol!