On 6/21/2015 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 7:57 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving
the gun to the
druggie son?

We'll just let that sit, I'll be at Solomons for a week.



Solomons...ahh, just the place to be in a travel trailer when it is
85-99F outside, with high humidity. All those folks and their trailers
at the Navy Rec Center, lined up, with the A/C compressors running
24/7...blech. Don't forget to take all your guns and other hobby stuff
you don't know how to use.


Ha. Brings back memories of our very brief "camping" experience.

We've had a few RV's ... Class A and Class C motorhomes but they were
primary purchased with the thought in mind that they would be used for
traveling back and forth to Florida when we had the houses down there.
We thought they would make for leisurely trips, stopping to see the
sights so to speak. Never worked out that way. Once on the road we
got to Jupiter in two and a half days ... the same amount of time it
took to drive in a car.

Then my daughter convinced us to get a fifth wheel. Her two boys were
young at the time and she, her husband and kids loved to go "camping" in
a travel trailer they had. She talked us (and my oldest son) to
join them in their camping adventures.

So, we bought a 36 or 37 foot fifth wheel and a Ford F-350 diesel to
pull it. My son also bought a fifth wheel and a new truck to pull his.

Off we all went to some place in New Hampshire. Fifty million screaming
little kids all over the place. Hottest week in years in New Hampshire
with temps in the 90's and near 100 percent humidity. Rained every
afternoon. Mosquitoes the size of Boeing 747's. One of the most
horrible weeks I've ever spent.

Dragged the fifth wheel home and immediately put it up for sale.


Ahhhh. Camping in New England at it's finest.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 6/21/15 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 7:57 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving
the gun to the
druggie son?

We'll just let that sit, I'll be at Solomons for a week.



Solomons...ahh, just the place to be in a travel trailer when it is
85-99F outside, with high humidity. All those folks and their trailers
at the Navy Rec Center, lined up, with the A/C compressors running
24/7...blech. Don't forget to take all your guns and other hobby stuff
you don't know how to use.


Ha. Brings back memories of our very brief "camping" experience.

We've had a few RV's ... Class A and Class C motorhomes but they were
primary purchased with the thought in mind that they would be used for
traveling back and forth to Florida when we had the houses down there.
We thought they would make for leisurely trips, stopping to see the
sights so to speak. Never worked out that way. Once on the road we
got to Jupiter in two and a half days ... the same amount of time it
took to drive in a car.

Then my daughter convinced us to get a fifth wheel. Her two boys were
young at the time and she, her husband and kids loved to go "camping" in
a travel trailer they had. She talked us (and my oldest son) to
join them in their camping adventures.

So, we bought a 36 or 37 foot fifth wheel and a Ford F-350 diesel to
pull it. My son also bought a fifth wheel and a new truck to pull his.

Off we all went to some place in New Hampshire. Fifty million screaming
little kids all over the place. Hottest week in years in New Hampshire
with temps in the 90's and near 100 percent humidity. Rained every
afternoon. Mosquitoes the size of Boeing 747's. One of the most
horrible weeks I've ever spent.

Dragged the fifth wheel home and immediately put it up for sale.



I did a little "camping out" with friends during my college days, out in
Kansas and Colorado and South Dakota. We actually "camped out," though,
with sleeping bags out under the stars, and a couple of tents in case it
rained. Driving or dragging a motel room has no appeal. I don't even
like to see the monster RVs on the interstate, because you can't see
over or around them, and many times the drivers shouldn't be trusted
piloting a skateboard.

On 6/21/2015 9:00 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 6/21/2015 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 7:57 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving
the gun to the
druggie son?

We'll just let that sit, I'll be at Solomons for a week.



Solomons...ahh, just the place to be in a travel trailer when it is
85-99F outside, with high humidity. All those folks and their trailers
at the Navy Rec Center, lined up, with the A/C compressors running
24/7...blech. Don't forget to take all your guns and other hobby stuff
you don't know how to use.


Ha. Brings back memories of our very brief "camping" experience.

We've had a few RV's ... Class A and Class C motorhomes but they were
primary purchased with the thought in mind that they would be used for
traveling back and forth to Florida when we had the houses down there.
We thought they would make for leisurely trips, stopping to see the
sights so to speak. Never worked out that way. Once on the road we
got to Jupiter in two and a half days ... the same amount of time it
took to drive in a car.

Then my daughter convinced us to get a fifth wheel. Her two boys were
young at the time and she, her husband and kids loved to go "camping" in
a travel trailer they had. She talked us (and my oldest son) to
join them in their camping adventures.

So, we bought a 36 or 37 foot fifth wheel and a Ford F-350 diesel to
pull it. My son also bought a fifth wheel and a new truck to pull his.

Off we all went to some place in New Hampshire. Fifty million screaming
little kids all over the place. Hottest week in years in New Hampshire
with temps in the 90's and near 100 percent humidity. Rained every
afternoon. Mosquitoes the size of Boeing 747's. One of the most
horrible weeks I've ever spent.

Dragged the fifth wheel home and immediately put it up for sale.


Ahhhh. Camping in New England at it's finest.



Well, the fifth wheel wasn't exactly a land yacht. :-)

On 6/21/2015 9:02 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 7:57 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving
the gun to the
druggie son?

We'll just let that sit, I'll be at Solomons for a week.



Solomons...ahh, just the place to be in a travel trailer when it is
85-99F outside, with high humidity. All those folks and their trailers
at the Navy Rec Center, lined up, with the A/C compressors running
24/7...blech. Don't forget to take all your guns and other hobby stuff
you don't know how to use.


Ha. Brings back memories of our very brief "camping" experience.

We've had a few RV's ... Class A and Class C motorhomes but they were
primary purchased with the thought in mind that they would be used for
traveling back and forth to Florida when we had the houses down there.
We thought they would make for leisurely trips, stopping to see the
sights so to speak. Never worked out that way. Once on the road we
got to Jupiter in two and a half days ... the same amount of time it
took to drive in a car.

Then my daughter convinced us to get a fifth wheel. Her two boys were
young at the time and she, her husband and kids loved to go "camping" in
a travel trailer they had. She talked us (and my oldest son) to
join them in their camping adventures.

So, we bought a 36 or 37 foot fifth wheel and a Ford F-350 diesel to
pull it. My son also bought a fifth wheel and a new truck to pull his.

Off we all went to some place in New Hampshire. Fifty million screaming
little kids all over the place. Hottest week in years in New Hampshire
with temps in the 90's and near 100 percent humidity. Rained every
afternoon. Mosquitoes the size of Boeing 747's. One of the most
horrible weeks I've ever spent.

Dragged the fifth wheel home and immediately put it up for sale.



I did a little "camping out" with friends during my college days, out in
Kansas and Colorado and South Dakota. We actually "camped out," though,
with sleeping bags out under the stars, and a couple of tents in case it
rained. Driving or dragging a motel room has no appeal. I don't even
like to see the monster RVs on the interstate, because you can't see
over or around them, and many times the drivers shouldn't be trusted
piloting a skateboard.


On one of the many trips to Florida I drove the F-350 towing a Scout
Center Console. I was by myself (my wife and I don't travel well
together) and I decided to make the trip a camping adventure in the
style we did as youths. I bought a cheap pup tent, a sleeping bag, a
mat to sleep on, along with the cooking and coffee making basics used on
an open fire.

Stopped at a campground somewhere in Virgina the first night and set up
camp on the edge of a small lake. After night fall I tried to sleep but
couldn't. Even with the mat, the ground was hard as a rock. Finally
started to doze off after midnight only to be awakened by a bunch of
ducks quaking and parading in front of the tent. Miserable night. Got
up the next morning and tossed the tent, sleeping bag and cooking gear
into a dumpster. Stayed at a Best Western the next two nights.

On 6/21/2015 9:54 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 9:00 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 6/21/2015 8:39 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 7:57 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington
Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have
come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving
the gun to the
druggie son?

We'll just let that sit, I'll be at Solomons for a week.



Solomons...ahh, just the place to be in a travel trailer when it is
85-99F outside, with high humidity. All those folks and their trailers
at the Navy Rec Center, lined up, with the A/C compressors running
24/7...blech. Don't forget to take all your guns and other hobby stuff
you don't know how to use.


Ha. Brings back memories of our very brief "camping" experience.

We've had a few RV's ... Class A and Class C motorhomes but they were
primary purchased with the thought in mind that they would be used for
traveling back and forth to Florida when we had the houses down there.
We thought they would make for leisurely trips, stopping to see the
sights so to speak. Never worked out that way. Once on the road we
got to Jupiter in two and a half days ... the same amount of time it
took to drive in a car.

Then my daughter convinced us to get a fifth wheel. Her two boys were
young at the time and she, her husband and kids loved to go "camping" in
a travel trailer they had. She talked us (and my oldest son) to
join them in their camping adventures.

So, we bought a 36 or 37 foot fifth wheel and a Ford F-350 diesel to
pull it. My son also bought a fifth wheel and a new truck to pull his.

Off we all went to some place in New Hampshire. Fifty million screaming
little kids all over the place. Hottest week in years in New Hampshire
with temps in the 90's and near 100 percent humidity. Rained every
afternoon. Mosquitoes the size of Boeing 747's. One of the most
horrible weeks I've ever spent.

Dragged the fifth wheel home and immediately put it up for sale.


Ahhhh. Camping in New England at it's finest.



Well, the fifth wheel wasn't exactly a land yacht. :-)


Wasn't talking bout the equipment. ;-)

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 6/21/15 10:48 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 07:52:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving the gun to the
druggie son?

Not as the law stands now. But perhaps if it was illegal to transfer
firearms without a background check he may not have done so. Based on
media reports it appears Root's parents are law abiding and not racists.

Do you really think that every person in Maryland or Massachusetts
fills out all of those forms and involves the government when they
"transfer" a firearm within the household?
This wasn't even a case of getting a gun from a neighbor or a family
member outside the home.



It's almost but not quite funny that your answer to virtually every
serious challenge facing us is, "We really can't do anything about that."

Well, that's a cop-out, bull**** answer.

Every single firearm should have to be registered with an appropriate
government agency, and every time one is sold or otherwise transferred,
the name and address of its new owner should be recorded. That should be
the first step.

On 6/21/15 10:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:26:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 6/21/15 8:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 6:40 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:47:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/20/2015 7:17 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/20/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.


I oppose private transfers.

When I sold my Ruger GP100 revolver, it was to a sworn federal security
officer, and we did the transfer at a state police barracks. It cost
$10, I think. The only legal way to transfer a handgun like that was
via
an FFL or the state police. No biggie for either me or the buyer.
The usual background check and one week waiting period applied.

When I sold my Winchester 92 rifle, I called the state police and was
told that private sales of "unregulated" firearms (ordinary rifles and
shotguns, for example) between individuals required no third party or
paperwork, beyond a bill of sale. I thought that strange, but it is the
law here in Maryland. There really was no procedure that would
involve a
background check. So, we met in a parking lot over by the Pax River and
did the "rifle for cash money" swap.

That shouldn't be how it is done, but that is how it is done, here in
Maryland.

When I bought my silencer, I had to fill out a bunch of forms, buy a
$200 federal tax stamp, and wait 92 days for federal approval.

I saw a news story yesterday that claimed that Dylann's father gave him
the money to buy the .45 semi-auto. That's the third different story
I've seen on how the gun came into the little twerp's possession.




I've heard the same different stories. The Wash Post article sorta
makes sense through because he shouldn't have been able to purchase it
through a FFL and successfully clear a background check. Maybe he
bought it privately.

Here in MA, inner state transfers/sales are permitted however a form
is required to be submitted with both the seller's permit number and
the buyer's permit number, along with the firearm serial number, make,
model, etc. It can be done on-line. The rational is
that both the seller and the buyer had to have background checks done
in order to get the permits. The law states that it is the
responsibility of the seller (or transferer) to verify that the
buyer's (or transferee's) permit is current. MA permits have both
picture ID's and fingerprints.


You reckon that would have stopped Roof? I suppose so, since he was
such a
law-abiding citizen.



I have no problem with any laws that may make it more difficult for
sickos' to acquire firearms, especially if they don't cause responsible,
law abiding folks from purchasing, inheriting or owning them. I really
don't see what the big deal about objections to a universal background
check law is. If it's a 2nd Amendment or "slippery slope" argument it
doesn't make sense unless you are against felons from being prohibited
from gun ownership also.





Herring has purchased firearms as "gifts" for members of his family
without bothering with background checks because the law doesn't require
them in his state or in most states. Stupid.

Interestingly, if you own a suppressor/silencer and you want to legally
pass it on to a friend or relative, that person will have to go through
the federal procedure all over again *unless* you've established a
firearms trust and the "inheritor" is a trustee of that trust.

The "trust" loophole is mostly to bypass the local police endorsement
on the Form 4 but it is commonly used to include a number of 3d
parties on the form 4.


Our county sheriff has no problems signing off for silencers, but, as
you posted, the trust allows others to use or "inherit" the silencer.
One of my buddies in Virginia is one of my trustees.

On 6/21/2015 11:03 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/21/15 10:51 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 08:26:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 6/21/15 8:05 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 6/21/2015 6:40 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:47:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/20/2015 7:17 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 6/20/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the
Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would
have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal
transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.


I oppose private transfers.

When I sold my Ruger GP100 revolver, it was to a sworn federal
security
officer, and we did the transfer at a state police barracks. It cost
$10, I think. The only legal way to transfer a handgun like that was
via
an FFL or the state police. No biggie for either me or the buyer.
The usual background check and one week waiting period applied.

When I sold my Winchester 92 rifle, I called the state police and
was
told that private sales of "unregulated" firearms (ordinary
rifles and
shotguns, for example) between individuals required no third
party or
paperwork, beyond a bill of sale. I thought that strange, but it
is the
law here in Maryland. There really was no procedure that would
involve a
background check. So, we met in a parking lot over by the Pax
River and
did the "rifle for cash money" swap.

That shouldn't be how it is done, but that is how it is done,
here in
Maryland.

When I bought my silencer, I had to fill out a bunch of forms, buy a
$200 federal tax stamp, and wait 92 days for federal approval.

I saw a news story yesterday that claimed that Dylann's father
gave him
the money to buy the .45 semi-auto. That's the third different story
I've seen on how the gun came into the little twerp's possession.




I've heard the same different stories. The Wash Post article sorta
makes sense through because he shouldn't have been able to
purchase it
through a FFL and successfully clear a background check. Maybe he
bought it privately.

Here in MA, inner state transfers/sales are permitted however a form
is required to be submitted with both the seller's permit number and
the buyer's permit number, along with the firearm serial number,
make,
model, etc. It can be done on-line. The rational is
that both the seller and the buyer had to have background checks done
in order to get the permits. The law states that it is the
responsibility of the seller (or transferer) to verify that the
buyer's (or transferee's) permit is current. MA permits have both
picture ID's and fingerprints.


You reckon that would have stopped Roof? I suppose so, since he was
such a
law-abiding citizen.



I have no problem with any laws that may make it more difficult for
sickos' to acquire firearms, especially if they don't cause
responsible,
law abiding folks from purchasing, inheriting or owning them. I really
don't see what the big deal about objections to a universal background
check law is. If it's a 2nd Amendment or "slippery slope" argument it
doesn't make sense unless you are against felons from being prohibited
from gun ownership also.





Herring has purchased firearms as "gifts" for members of his family
without bothering with background checks because the law doesn't require
them in his state or in most states. Stupid.

Interestingly, if you own a suppressor/silencer and you want to legally
pass it on to a friend or relative, that person will have to go through
the federal procedure all over again *unless* you've established a
firearms trust and the "inheritor" is a trustee of that trust.

The "trust" loophole is mostly to bypass the local police endorsement
on the Form 4 but it is commonly used to include a number of 3d
parties on the form 4.


Our county sheriff has no problems signing off for silencers, but, as
you posted, the trust allows others to use or "inherit" the silencer.
One of my buddies in Virginia is one of my trustees.

It's hard to imagine you having a "buddie". You are good at finding
loopholes in laws, aren't you?

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

In article , says...

On 6/21/15 10:48 AM, wrote:

It's almost but not quite funny that your answer to virtually every
serious challenge facing us is, "We really can't do anything about that."

Well, that's a cop-out, bull**** answer.

Every single firearm should have to be registered with an appropriate
government agency, and every time one is sold or otherwise transferred,
the name and address of its new owner should be recorded. That should be
the first step.

Sure, that's all true. But the real solution to gun deaths is
dissolving the "romance of the gun."
It's a simple killing instrument, and repellent to lovers of life.
You've fallen in love with it, as have other here.
And you're obviously part of the "gun culture."

On 6/21/15 11:34 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 10:57:36 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 6/21/15 10:48 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 07:52:04 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 6:34 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:08:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

The Washington Post is reporting that Dylann Roof was given the .45
Glock by his father back in April.

By law, Roof could not purchase a firearm in SC because he
had a felony charge pending (drugs). According to the Washington Post
a FFL would have run a background check and the charge would have come
up disallowing Roof from purchasing it.

But the loophole was the private transfer. SC (along with 40 other
states) does not require a background check for personal transfers.

Seems we've had this debate before.

You reckon the dad would have filled out the paperwork before giving the gun to the
druggie son?

Not as the law stands now. But perhaps if it was illegal to transfer
firearms without a background check he may not have done so. Based on
media reports it appears Root's parents are law abiding and not racists.

Do you really think that every person in Maryland or Massachusetts
fills out all of those forms and involves the government when they
"transfer" a firearm within the household?
This wasn't even a case of getting a gun from a neighbor or a family
member outside the home.



It's almost but not quite funny that your answer to virtually every
serious challenge facing us is, "We really can't do anything about that."

Well, that's a cop-out, bull**** answer.

It is also accurate. There are an estimated 300,000,000 - 400,000,000
guns in this country and we are not sure who actually owns half of
them. The best we can come up with in most cases are anonymous surveys
with dubious accuracy.


Every single firearm should have to be registered with an appropriate
government agency, and every time one is sold or otherwise transferred,
the name and address of its new owner should be recorded. That should be
the first step.

In this case the only thing that would have changed on that form was
the first name of the owner. It was the same family at the same
address.




Right, because we can't do anything about anything. Your answer to
virtually every significant issue. Insane libertarianism.