Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

On 5/1/15 8:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


One requirement is a 10lb trigger pull on *all* handguns. It's not a
big deal on larger, heavier handguns but can affect the lightweight
ones. In the case of the Bodyguard it was the 10lb pull plus the long
action of the trigger that messed me up.



A 10-pound DA pull is not unusual on a DA/SA service revolver. My S&W
686 measures 6 pounds DA and 3 pounds SA, and they both now feel pretty
good to me. The SA action is...short.

My Ruger Mk III Volquartsen has a 2-1/2 pound trigger pull, which is
pretty nifty for target shooting.

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

Justan Olphart wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:12 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 1:51 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
Mr. Luddite;1032876 Wrote:
On 4/30/2015 6:46 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 11:27 PM, Tim wrote:-
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 4:40:03 AM UTC-7, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 7:15 AM, Tim wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/kt7vawl


Interesting little reviews.



Feh. All semi-autos, not a great choice for uber-reliable handguns,
and
nothing very special in the bunch.-

For less than $500. a piece I'd take any of them. Of course in my
hands they'd get limited use. I dont' go to a range just to burn up
boxes of ammunition and see how soon I can wear one out.

But I really don't need one. In my small bore line My Hungarian
Mak.9mm does the job. And I haven't run through 300 rds. in 20 years .
Gave $150 for it new, then. I still think I got a bargain.
-


There literally are dozens of pretty much better handguns you can buy
for $500 or less than those depicted, including some top drawer or
near
top drawer revolvers, which is what I would pick these days for a
conceal carry or nightstand pistol.

As for shooting a pistol, well, I don't see how you can become adept
with a particular one unless you practice with it at the range. It
takes
an awful lot of ammo to "wear out" a decent firearm. Plus, you can
almost always replace a barrel.

Aren't you a Mosin fan? Those military surplus rifles pretty much have
clapped out barrels before they get into your hands, right?-


I have a different opinion on revolvers vs pistols. I actually prefer
revolvers and it is what I keep on my nightstand beside my bed at
night.
It's ready to fire in an emergency, either in double or single action
but it's not being handled, carried or subject to being caught in a
holster or clothing.

But for concealed carry I prefer a pistol for a couple of reasons.
First, they can be smaller and slimmer. Second, and you can call me
overly cautious, but on the few occasions that I carry I think a
pistol

is safer. There's no exposed hammer (at least on the ones I own) that
can get hung up and inadvertently cocked. I also don't
carry with a round in the chamber making it very unlikely that a round
could ever go off accidentally. I know many disagree with this
practice

but it is my feeling that I can afford the extra second or two
required

to rack the pistol if I ever had to use it ... which, we all know is
very unlikely.

I think not having a round in the chamber along with the gun's safety
offsets the slight but still possible potential of an inadvertent
discharge.


Your reasons listed above is one of the big reasons that I purchased my
Smith and Wesson M & P Shield 9MM. I can carry it in my pocket if I
desire. It is a striker fire weapon no exposed hammer. I have no
problem
retrieving it from a pocket. It has a safety so I do carry it with a
round in the chamber. As I am pulling it from the holster or pocket
I am
flicking off the safety with my thumb. It might be a little quicker
than
your racking a round but I agree with you it is safer to carry it
without a chambered round unless you have a safety.






I had a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 for a while but ended up trading it back
in. To meet Massachusetts safety requirements the trigger pull was very
long and has a 10lb pull. By the time you fired a round the pistol
was aimed too low. I thought it was just me but when I brought it back
to the dealer he said others have complained about the same thing. Light
gun, 10lb trigger and long pull. Your finger pulled the gun down as you
pulled the trigger.

It would have been fine if it was the only gun you used. I could adjust
for it. The problem was then going to another handgun like the
Walther or other larger gun and remembering not to adjust.

I like the little Sig Sauer. Just about
the same size as the Bodyguard but doesn't seem to share the same issue.
Maybe it's a case of how they are balanced.


I hear Kahr made their PM9 series Mass. legal. Hopefully they didn't
crappify the pistol in the process.



The CM9 is my boat gun. Small, stainless, and reliable.

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:18 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:12 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 1:51 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
Mr. Luddite;1032876 Wrote:
On 4/30/2015 6:46 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 11:27 PM, Tim wrote:-
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 4:40:03 AM UTC-7, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 7:15 AM, Tim wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/kt7vawl


Interesting little reviews.



Feh. All semi-autos, not a great choice for uber-reliable handguns,
and
nothing very special in the bunch.-

For less than $500. a piece I'd take any of them. Of course in my
hands they'd get limited use. I dont' go to a range just to burn up
boxes of ammunition and see how soon I can wear one out.

But I really don't need one. In my small bore line My Hungarian
Mak.9mm does the job. And I haven't run through 300 rds. in 20
years .
Gave $150 for it new, then. I still think I got a bargain.
-


There literally are dozens of pretty much better handguns you can buy
for $500 or less than those depicted, including some top drawer or
near
top drawer revolvers, which is what I would pick these days for a
conceal carry or nightstand pistol.

As for shooting a pistol, well, I don't see how you can become adept
with a particular one unless you practice with it at the range. It
takes
an awful lot of ammo to "wear out" a decent firearm. Plus, you can
almost always replace a barrel.

Aren't you a Mosin fan? Those military surplus rifles pretty much
have
clapped out barrels before they get into your hands, right?-


I have a different opinion on revolvers vs pistols. I actually
prefer
revolvers and it is what I keep on my nightstand beside my bed at
night.
It's ready to fire in an emergency, either in double or single action
but it's not being handled, carried or subject to being caught in a
holster or clothing.

But for concealed carry I prefer a pistol for a couple of reasons.
First, they can be smaller and slimmer. Second, and you can call me
overly cautious, but on the few occasions that I carry I think a
pistol

is safer. There's no exposed hammer (at least on the ones I own)
that
can get hung up and inadvertently cocked. I also don't
carry with a round in the chamber making it very unlikely that a
round
could ever go off accidentally. I know many disagree with this
practice

but it is my feeling that I can afford the extra second or two
required

to rack the pistol if I ever had to use it ... which, we all know is
very unlikely.

I think not having a round in the chamber along with the gun's safety
offsets the slight but still possible potential of an inadvertent
discharge.


Your reasons listed above is one of the big reasons that I
purchased my
Smith and Wesson M & P Shield 9MM. I can carry it in my pocket if I
desire. It is a striker fire weapon no exposed hammer. I have no
problem
retrieving it from a pocket. It has a safety so I do carry it with a
round in the chamber. As I am pulling it from the holster or pocket
I am
flicking off the safety with my thumb. It might be a little quicker
than
your racking a round but I agree with you it is safer to carry it
without a chambered round unless you have a safety.






I had a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 for a while but ended up trading it back
in. To meet Massachusetts safety requirements the trigger pull was
very
long and has a 10lb pull. By the time you fired a round the pistol
was aimed too low. I thought it was just me but when I brought it back
to the dealer he said others have complained about the same thing.
Light
gun, 10lb trigger and long pull. Your finger pulled the gun down as you
pulled the trigger.

It would have been fine if it was the only gun you used. I could
adjust
for it. The problem was then going to another handgun like the
Walther or other larger gun and remembering not to adjust.

I like the little Sig Sauer. Just about
the same size as the Bodyguard but doesn't seem to share the same
issue.
Maybe it's a case of how they are balanced.


I hear Kahr made their PM9 series Mass. legal. Hopefully they didn't
crappify the pistol in the process.


One requirement is a 10lb trigger pull on *all* handguns. It's not a
big deal on larger, heavier handguns but can affect the lightweight
ones. In the case of the Bodyguard it was the 10lb pull plus the long
action of the trigger that messed me up.






Can you legally alter that after the purchase?

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:47 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:18 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:12 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 1:51 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
Mr. Luddite;1032876 Wrote:
On 4/30/2015 6:46 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 11:27 PM, Tim wrote:-
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 4:40:03 AM UTC-7, Keyser Söze
wrote:-
On 4/29/15 7:15 AM, Tim wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/kt7vawl


Interesting little reviews.



Feh. All semi-autos, not a great choice for uber-reliable handguns,
and
nothing very special in the bunch.-

For less than $500. a piece I'd take any of them. Of course in my
hands they'd get limited use. I dont' go to a range just to burn up
boxes of ammunition and see how soon I can wear one out.

But I really don't need one. In my small bore line My Hungarian
Mak.9mm does the job. And I haven't run through 300 rds. in 20
years .
Gave $150 for it new, then. I still think I got a bargain.
-


There literally are dozens of pretty much better handguns you
can buy
for $500 or less than those depicted, including some top drawer or
near
top drawer revolvers, which is what I would pick these days for a
conceal carry or nightstand pistol.

As for shooting a pistol, well, I don't see how you can become
adept
with a particular one unless you practice with it at the range. It
takes
an awful lot of ammo to "wear out" a decent firearm. Plus, you can
almost always replace a barrel.

Aren't you a Mosin fan? Those military surplus rifles pretty much
have
clapped out barrels before they get into your hands, right?-


I have a different opinion on revolvers vs pistols. I actually
prefer
revolvers and it is what I keep on my nightstand beside my bed at
night.
It's ready to fire in an emergency, either in double or single
action
but it's not being handled, carried or subject to being caught in a
holster or clothing.

But for concealed carry I prefer a pistol for a couple of reasons.
First, they can be smaller and slimmer. Second, and you can
call me
overly cautious, but on the few occasions that I carry I think a
pistol

is safer. There's no exposed hammer (at least on the ones I own)
that
can get hung up and inadvertently cocked. I also don't
carry with a round in the chamber making it very unlikely that a
round
could ever go off accidentally. I know many disagree with this
practice

but it is my feeling that I can afford the extra second or two
required

to rack the pistol if I ever had to use it ... which, we all
know is
very unlikely.

I think not having a round in the chamber along with the gun's
safety
offsets the slight but still possible potential of an inadvertent
discharge.


Your reasons listed above is one of the big reasons that I
purchased my
Smith and Wesson M & P Shield 9MM. I can carry it in my pocket if I
desire. It is a striker fire weapon no exposed hammer. I have no
problem
retrieving it from a pocket. It has a safety so I do carry it with a
round in the chamber. As I am pulling it from the holster or pocket
I am
flicking off the safety with my thumb. It might be a little quicker
than
your racking a round but I agree with you it is safer to carry it
without a chambered round unless you have a safety.






I had a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 for a while but ended up trading it
back
in. To meet Massachusetts safety requirements the trigger pull was
very
long and has a 10lb pull. By the time you fired a round the pistol
was aimed too low. I thought it was just me but when I brought it
back
to the dealer he said others have complained about the same thing.
Light
gun, 10lb trigger and long pull. Your finger pulled the gun down
as you
pulled the trigger.

It would have been fine if it was the only gun you used. I could
adjust
for it. The problem was then going to another handgun like the
Walther or other larger gun and remembering not to adjust.

I like the little Sig Sauer. Just about
the same size as the Bodyguard but doesn't seem to share the same
issue.
Maybe it's a case of how they are balanced.


I hear Kahr made their PM9 series Mass. legal. Hopefully they didn't
crappify the pistol in the process.


One requirement is a 10lb trigger pull on *all* handguns. It's not a
big deal on larger, heavier handguns but can affect the lightweight
ones. In the case of the Bodyguard it was the 10lb pull plus the long
action of the trigger that messed me up.


10 lb single action mode too?


Good question. I'll have to check on the only revolver I have left ...
the .38 Chief's Special.




Same would be true with a pistol on round 2 or a pistol with an exposed
hammer.

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 5/1/15 8:26 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


One requirement is a 10lb trigger pull on *all* handguns. It's not a
big deal on larger, heavier handguns but can affect the lightweight
ones. In the case of the Bodyguard it was the 10lb pull plus the long
action of the trigger that messed me up.



A 10-pound DA pull is not unusual on a DA/SA service revolver. My S&W
686 measures 6 pounds DA and 3 pounds SA, and they both now feel
pretty good to me. The SA action is...short.

My Ruger Mk III Volquartsen has a 2-1/2 pound trigger pull, which is
pretty nifty for target shooting.


Good for you! Did you buy them with your tax savings? ;)

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

On 5/1/2015 9:26 PM, Username wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:18 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:12 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 1:51 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
Mr. Luddite;1032876 Wrote:
On 4/30/2015 6:46 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 11:27 PM, Tim wrote:-
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 4:40:03 AM UTC-7, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 7:15 AM, Tim wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/kt7vawl


Interesting little reviews.



Feh. All semi-autos, not a great choice for uber-reliable handguns,
and
nothing very special in the bunch.-

For less than $500. a piece I'd take any of them. Of course in my
hands they'd get limited use. I dont' go to a range just to burn up
boxes of ammunition and see how soon I can wear one out.

But I really don't need one. In my small bore line My Hungarian
Mak.9mm does the job. And I haven't run through 300 rds. in 20
years .
Gave $150 for it new, then. I still think I got a bargain.
-


There literally are dozens of pretty much better handguns you can buy
for $500 or less than those depicted, including some top drawer or
near
top drawer revolvers, which is what I would pick these days for a
conceal carry or nightstand pistol.

As for shooting a pistol, well, I don't see how you can become adept
with a particular one unless you practice with it at the range. It
takes
an awful lot of ammo to "wear out" a decent firearm. Plus, you can
almost always replace a barrel.

Aren't you a Mosin fan? Those military surplus rifles pretty much
have
clapped out barrels before they get into your hands, right?-


I have a different opinion on revolvers vs pistols. I actually
prefer
revolvers and it is what I keep on my nightstand beside my bed at
night.
It's ready to fire in an emergency, either in double or single action
but it's not being handled, carried or subject to being caught in a
holster or clothing.

But for concealed carry I prefer a pistol for a couple of reasons.
First, they can be smaller and slimmer. Second, and you can call me
overly cautious, but on the few occasions that I carry I think a
pistol

is safer. There's no exposed hammer (at least on the ones I own)
that
can get hung up and inadvertently cocked. I also don't
carry with a round in the chamber making it very unlikely that a
round
could ever go off accidentally. I know many disagree with this
practice

but it is my feeling that I can afford the extra second or two
required

to rack the pistol if I ever had to use it ... which, we all know is
very unlikely.

I think not having a round in the chamber along with the gun's safety
offsets the slight but still possible potential of an inadvertent
discharge.


Your reasons listed above is one of the big reasons that I
purchased my
Smith and Wesson M & P Shield 9MM. I can carry it in my pocket if I
desire. It is a striker fire weapon no exposed hammer. I have no
problem
retrieving it from a pocket. It has a safety so I do carry it with a
round in the chamber. As I am pulling it from the holster or pocket
I am
flicking off the safety with my thumb. It might be a little quicker
than
your racking a round but I agree with you it is safer to carry it
without a chambered round unless you have a safety.






I had a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 for a while but ended up trading it back
in. To meet Massachusetts safety requirements the trigger pull was
very
long and has a 10lb pull. By the time you fired a round the pistol
was aimed too low. I thought it was just me but when I brought it back
to the dealer he said others have complained about the same thing.
Light
gun, 10lb trigger and long pull. Your finger pulled the gun down as you
pulled the trigger.

It would have been fine if it was the only gun you used. I could
adjust
for it. The problem was then going to another handgun like the
Walther or other larger gun and remembering not to adjust.

I like the little Sig Sauer. Just about
the same size as the Bodyguard but doesn't seem to share the same
issue.
Maybe it's a case of how they are balanced.


I hear Kahr made their PM9 series Mass. legal. Hopefully they didn't
crappify the pistol in the process.


One requirement is a 10lb trigger pull on *all* handguns. It's not a
big deal on larger, heavier handguns but can affect the lightweight
ones. In the case of the Bodyguard it was the 10lb pull plus the long
action of the trigger that messed me up.






Can you legally alter that after the purchase?


Good question to which I don't know the answer for sure. The MA laws
stipulate certain design issues such as the 10lb trigger pull, a safety,
drop tests and even overall size that would theoretically prevent a 5
year old from being able to fire the handgun. Apparently making any
modifications to the original design (other than making it
fully automatic) is not illegal however should the handgun be involved
in an accident at the range or even if used in self defense, the fact
that it was modified in any way could be used against you in court.
The other issue is warranty.

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 9:26 PM, Username wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:18 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 5/1/2015 8:12 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/1/2015 1:51 AM, RGrew176 wrote:
Mr. Luddite;1032876 Wrote:
On 4/30/2015 6:46 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:-
On 4/29/15 11:27 PM, Tim wrote:-
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 4:40:03 AM UTC-7, Keyser Söze
wrote:-
On 4/29/15 7:15 AM, Tim wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/kt7vawl


Interesting little reviews.



Feh. All semi-autos, not a great choice for uber-reliable handguns,
and
nothing very special in the bunch.-

For less than $500. a piece I'd take any of them. Of course in my
hands they'd get limited use. I dont' go to a range just to burn up
boxes of ammunition and see how soon I can wear one out.

But I really don't need one. In my small bore line My Hungarian
Mak.9mm does the job. And I haven't run through 300 rds. in 20
years .
Gave $150 for it new, then. I still think I got a bargain.
-


There literally are dozens of pretty much better handguns you
can buy
for $500 or less than those depicted, including some top drawer or
near
top drawer revolvers, which is what I would pick these days for a
conceal carry or nightstand pistol.

As for shooting a pistol, well, I don't see how you can become
adept
with a particular one unless you practice with it at the range. It
takes
an awful lot of ammo to "wear out" a decent firearm. Plus, you can
almost always replace a barrel.

Aren't you a Mosin fan? Those military surplus rifles pretty much
have
clapped out barrels before they get into your hands, right?-


I have a different opinion on revolvers vs pistols. I actually
prefer
revolvers and it is what I keep on my nightstand beside my bed at
night.
It's ready to fire in an emergency, either in double or single
action
but it's not being handled, carried or subject to being caught in a
holster or clothing.

But for concealed carry I prefer a pistol for a couple of reasons.
First, they can be smaller and slimmer. Second, and you can
call me
overly cautious, but on the few occasions that I carry I think a
pistol

is safer. There's no exposed hammer (at least on the ones I own)
that
can get hung up and inadvertently cocked. I also don't
carry with a round in the chamber making it very unlikely that a
round
could ever go off accidentally. I know many disagree with this
practice

but it is my feeling that I can afford the extra second or two
required

to rack the pistol if I ever had to use it ... which, we all
know is
very unlikely.

I think not having a round in the chamber along with the gun's
safety
offsets the slight but still possible potential of an inadvertent
discharge.


Your reasons listed above is one of the big reasons that I
purchased my
Smith and Wesson M & P Shield 9MM. I can carry it in my pocket if I
desire. It is a striker fire weapon no exposed hammer. I have no
problem
retrieving it from a pocket. It has a safety so I do carry it with a
round in the chamber. As I am pulling it from the holster or pocket
I am
flicking off the safety with my thumb. It might be a little quicker
than
your racking a round but I agree with you it is safer to carry it
without a chambered round unless you have a safety.






I had a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 for a while but ended up trading it
back
in. To meet Massachusetts safety requirements the trigger pull was
very
long and has a 10lb pull. By the time you fired a round the pistol
was aimed too low. I thought it was just me but when I brought it
back
to the dealer he said others have complained about the same thing.
Light
gun, 10lb trigger and long pull. Your finger pulled the gun down
as you
pulled the trigger.

It would have been fine if it was the only gun you used. I could
adjust
for it. The problem was then going to another handgun like the
Walther or other larger gun and remembering not to adjust.

I like the little Sig Sauer. Just about
the same size as the Bodyguard but doesn't seem to share the same
issue.
Maybe it's a case of how they are balanced.


I hear Kahr made their PM9 series Mass. legal. Hopefully they didn't
crappify the pistol in the process.


One requirement is a 10lb trigger pull on *all* handguns. It's not a
big deal on larger, heavier handguns but can affect the lightweight
ones. In the case of the Bodyguard it was the 10lb pull plus the long
action of the trigger that messed me up.






Can you legally alter that after the purchase?


Good question to which I don't know the answer for sure. The MA laws
stipulate certain design issues such as the 10lb trigger pull, a
safety, drop tests and even overall size that would theoretically
prevent a 5 year old from being able to fire the handgun. Apparently
making any modifications to the original design (other than making it
fully automatic) is not illegal however should the handgun be involved
in an accident at the range or even if used in self defense, the fact
that it was modified in any way could be used against you in court.
The other issue is warranty.


I'm not familiar with any firearm warranties that are voided by a
trigger job and several do them in-house. The liability concern would
be a stretch for the court. If they did test it how would they know it
didn't come from the factory that way? It's not as simple as a marked
dial on the firearm.

Don't you think most 5-year old children could pull a 10lb trigger?

It's a shame MA has such ineffective laws.

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

On Sat, 02 May 2015 21:39:13 -0400, Username
wrote:

It's a shame MA has such ineffective laws.

===

The laws are the result of what I call "Ain't it awful" politics. An
accident or incident happens and everyone in politics says "ain't it
awful, ain't it awful". And the next thing you know, another dumb law
gets passed and the politicians pat each other on the back because
they "did something".

Bang for your buck: Best handguns under $500
 

On 5/2/2015 10:55 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2015 21:39:13 -0400, Username
wrote:

It's a shame MA has such ineffective laws.

===

The laws are the result of what I call "Ain't it awful" politics. An
accident or incident happens and everyone in politics says "ain't it
awful, ain't it awful". And the next thing you know, another dumb law
gets passed and the politicians pat each other on the back because
they "did something".



Exactly. Even if they know they can't get a restrictive law passed,
they file legislation anyway. Looks good on the resume'.