On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.

On 3/24/15 7:20 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as
having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first
woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble
and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle
that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off
with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.


No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

On 3/24/2015 7:23 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/24/15 7:20 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as
having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first
woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going
on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble
and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the
North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle
that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off
with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.


No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)

On 3/24/2015 7:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


Harry lies and you swear to it. ;-)
What percentage of federal and state road taxes collected are used to
repair and improve the road system in your state, as compared to Florida.
--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 3/24/2015 9:47 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/24/2015 7:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


Harry lies and you swear to it. ;-)
What percentage of federal and state road taxes collected are used to
repair and improve the road system in your state, as compared to Florida.

Beats me. I thought we were discussing what area has more bridge and
overpass corrosion due to their relative climates ... Florida or the
Northeast.

If you are looking for how gasoline taxes and tolls contribute to a
state's spending on road systems, here's a chart. As the article
states, it's only about a third of the total amount spent. The rest
comes from other revenue sources.

I think you have to also consider the size of the states, miles of roads
and number of bridges and users. The chart isn't a relative comparison
of who spends the most or least per capita.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

On 3/24/2015 12:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 10:21:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2015 9:47 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/24/2015 7:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


Harry lies and you swear to it. ;-)
What percentage of federal and state road taxes collected are used to
repair and improve the road system in your state, as compared to Florida.

Beats me. I thought we were discussing what area has more bridge and
overpass corrosion due to their relative climates ... Florida or the
Northeast.

If you are looking for how gasoline taxes and tolls contribute to a
state's spending on road systems, here's a chart. As the article
states, it's only about a third of the total amount spent. The rest
comes from other revenue sources.

I think you have to also consider the size of the states, miles of roads
and number of bridges and users. The chart isn't a relative comparison
of who spends the most or least per capita.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

Actually this started with me suggesting that they raise the gasoline
tax, provided that it all gets spent on the roads.
If you and Harry are right and your roads need more maintenance, you
should be paying higher gasoline taxes.

Taxachusetts actually does pretty well ranking #8. Surprised the hell
out of me.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 3/24/2015 12:16 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 10:21:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2015 9:47 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/24/2015 7:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


Harry lies and you swear to it. ;-)
What percentage of federal and state road taxes collected are used to
repair and improve the road system in your state, as compared to Florida.

Beats me. I thought we were discussing what area has more bridge and
overpass corrosion due to their relative climates ... Florida or the
Northeast.

If you are looking for how gasoline taxes and tolls contribute to a
state's spending on road systems, here's a chart. As the article
states, it's only about a third of the total amount spent. The rest
comes from other revenue sources.

I think you have to also consider the size of the states, miles of roads
and number of bridges and users. The chart isn't a relative comparison
of who spends the most or least per capita.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

Actually this started with me suggesting that they raise the gasoline
tax, provided that it all gets spent on the roads.
If you and Harry are right and your roads need more maintenance, you
should be paying higher gasoline taxes.


Oh, the politicians are trying. Our past governor (Deval Patrick)
floated the idea of a mileage tax. The more you drove, the more you
paid. Also proposed more and increased tolls. Tax on fuel only is
only one way to increase revenues and in a way it's self defeating. Cars
average much better mileage than they did 15 or 20 years ago.

Mostly, we just put up with rusting bridges and foot deep potholes. It's
Massachusetts after all.

On 3/24/2015 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 07:27:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2015 7:23 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/24/15 7:20 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as
having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first
woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going
on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble
and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the
North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle
that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off
with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.


No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is.



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


You are not that fond of cars that lived near the beach.

BTW if you look at the car carriers, used cars move south, not north,.


Of course. Florida is full of snowbirds shipping cars south and
retirees getting out of Dodge. Come to think of it, just about
*everything* that ends up in Florida, especially where you are, arrives
from the north.

A used "Florida" car commands a premium in the used car lots up here.
They haven't been driven for years in the sand/salt slush that rots out
the fenders and frames.

On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 07:20:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

We don't have it nearly so bad. The stuff left on the road gets ground to powder by
tires and then rained or blown away. The stuff on sides just 'dissipates' somehow.
I've never seen a sweeper go after it.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.

Probably a lot more of your basic concrete beam bridges which don't require
repainting regularly - too many kids with spray cans keep them freshly painted.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.