On 2/10/2015 7:26 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:58 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 6:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)



The greatest living expert…

…in rec.boats has to be Greg Fretwell…

…because in catching up on the last few days of posts, I read that he
has *all* the answers on:

* capital punishment

* mental illness

* physicians and their motivators

* snow

* prisons and inmates

* labor unions

* the Middle East

* drone warfare

* politics

This is an absolutely amazing accomplishment for a fellow who has *no*
college degrees in anything, no expertise in the criminal justice
system; no decade of education, training, examination and
certification
in treating mental illnesses; no medical degree; no experience in
diplomacy; no experience in high level politics, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera.

Greg, you're just amazing. If there's ever a call for another
all-seeing, all-knowing oracle, you're the man. No need for anyone to
spend decades of their lives learning and perfecting a high-level
skill
set. Just seek out *The Greg*.




You forgot "keeper of the keys" for Windows 95. :-)



Ah, yes. Well, as I am not "the expert" in everything, I hope you'll
excuse that memory lapse.

It is obvious that Greg's primary motivator is $$$. He doesn't give a
**** about capital punishment, beyond the fact that handing a murderer a
suicide pill is cheaper than housing him for life, that he doesn't give
a rat's ass about the Middle East beyond cutting military aid ($$$) to
Israel, et cetera. A secondary motivator is to make himself feel better
about never getting a college degree by putting down those who did.





I would argue that you tend to put too much emphasis on why a degree
is required to be qualified in any particular subject or discipline.
There are plenty of examples of degree-less, self-taught and educated
people who have made major contributions to society (or simply had
successful careers in their chosen field of work). There are also
many examples of highly educated people holding multiple degrees who
are total failures or represent warped views that affect society.

I think the problem in a discussion group like rec.boats is how
information and opinions are presented. An "IMO" or "I think" before
stating a belief takes the edge off of what seems to bother you
regarding Greg. He posts his views as if they are certain fact, but
most are simply opinions that are viewed differently by others.

BTW ... you often post in the same manner, especially when it comes
to politics.



I think Greg is qualified to discuss snow and politics.


I have a hard won degree in engineering with a focus on communication
electronics and systems. Greg is far more knowledgeable of past and
current electronic communication systems (computers, etc.) than I ever
was or will ever be because I never used the formal education in the
field I ended up in. I don't even know how to program a DVR although
that's mainly because I have no interest in using them.

The field I worked in almost 40 years is heavy in physics backed with
mechanical and electrical engineering. There is no college level
degree program (at least there wasn't when I was still attending
school) in the technology I was involved with. A working understanding
of the technology requires self education, drawing from other fields
of study.

On 2/10/15 7:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 7:26 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:58 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 6:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or
lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a
prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)



The greatest living expert…

…in rec.boats has to be Greg Fretwell…

…because in catching up on the last few days of posts, I read that he
has *all* the answers on:

* capital punishment

* mental illness

* physicians and their motivators

* snow

* prisons and inmates

* labor unions

* the Middle East

* drone warfare

* politics

This is an absolutely amazing accomplishment for a fellow who has
*no*
college degrees in anything, no expertise in the criminal justice
system; no decade of education, training, examination and
certification
in treating mental illnesses; no medical degree; no experience in
diplomacy; no experience in high level politics, et cetera, et
cetera,
et cetera.

Greg, you're just amazing. If there's ever a call for another
all-seeing, all-knowing oracle, you're the man. No need for anyone to
spend decades of their lives learning and perfecting a high-level
skill
set. Just seek out *The Greg*.




You forgot "keeper of the keys" for Windows 95. :-)



Ah, yes. Well, as I am not "the expert" in everything, I hope you'll
excuse that memory lapse.

It is obvious that Greg's primary motivator is $$$. He doesn't give a
**** about capital punishment, beyond the fact that handing a
murderer a
suicide pill is cheaper than housing him for life, that he doesn't give
a rat's ass about the Middle East beyond cutting military aid ($$$) to
Israel, et cetera. A secondary motivator is to make himself feel better
about never getting a college degree by putting down those who did.





I would argue that you tend to put too much emphasis on why a degree
is required to be qualified in any particular subject or discipline.
There are plenty of examples of degree-less, self-taught and educated
people who have made major contributions to society (or simply had
successful careers in their chosen field of work). There are also
many examples of highly educated people holding multiple degrees who
are total failures or represent warped views that affect society.

I think the problem in a discussion group like rec.boats is how
information and opinions are presented. An "IMO" or "I think" before
stating a belief takes the edge off of what seems to bother you
regarding Greg. He posts his views as if they are certain fact, but
most are simply opinions that are viewed differently by others.

BTW ... you often post in the same manner, especially when it comes
to politics.



I think Greg is qualified to discuss snow and politics.


I have a hard won degree in engineering with a focus on communication
electronics and systems. Greg is far more knowledgeable of past and
current electronic communication systems (computers, etc.) than I ever
was or will ever be because I never used the formal education in the
field I ended up in. I don't even know how to program a DVR although
that's mainly because I have no interest in using them.

The field I worked in almost 40 years is heavy in physics backed with
mechanical and electrical engineering. There is no college level
degree program (at least there wasn't when I was still attending
school) in the technology I was involved with. A working understanding
of the technology requires self education, drawing from other fields
of study.





I didn't comment on Greg's knowledge of electronics communications
systems. I don't disagree that a lot of knowledge can come from being
self-taught but in a lot of cases, that knowledge needs the refinement
that only comes from an environment that includes formal education,
training, certification.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

On 2/10/2015 9:47 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 7:26 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:58 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 6:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or
lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal
term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a
prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)



The greatest living expert…

…in rec.boats has to be Greg Fretwell…

…because in catching up on the last few days of posts, I read
that he
has *all* the answers on:

* capital punishment

* mental illness

* physicians and their motivators

* snow

* prisons and inmates

* labor unions

* the Middle East

* drone warfare

* politics

This is an absolutely amazing accomplishment for a fellow who has
*no*
college degrees in anything, no expertise in the criminal justice
system; no decade of education, training, examination and
certification
in treating mental illnesses; no medical degree; no experience in
diplomacy; no experience in high level politics, et cetera, et
cetera,
et cetera.

Greg, you're just amazing. If there's ever a call for another
all-seeing, all-knowing oracle, you're the man. No need for
anyone to
spend decades of their lives learning and perfecting a high-level
skill
set. Just seek out *The Greg*.




You forgot "keeper of the keys" for Windows 95. :-)



Ah, yes. Well, as I am not "the expert" in everything, I hope you'll
excuse that memory lapse.

It is obvious that Greg's primary motivator is $$$. He doesn't give a
**** about capital punishment, beyond the fact that handing a
murderer a
suicide pill is cheaper than housing him for life, that he doesn't
give
a rat's ass about the Middle East beyond cutting military aid ($$$) to
Israel, et cetera. A secondary motivator is to make himself feel
better
about never getting a college degree by putting down those who did.





I would argue that you tend to put too much emphasis on why a degree
is required to be qualified in any particular subject or discipline.
There are plenty of examples of degree-less, self-taught and educated
people who have made major contributions to society (or simply had
successful careers in their chosen field of work). There are also
many examples of highly educated people holding multiple degrees who
are total failures or represent warped views that affect society.

I think the problem in a discussion group like rec.boats is how
information and opinions are presented. An "IMO" or "I think" before
stating a belief takes the edge off of what seems to bother you
regarding Greg. He posts his views as if they are certain fact, but
most are simply opinions that are viewed differently by others.

BTW ... you often post in the same manner, especially when it comes
to politics.



I think Greg is qualified to discuss snow and politics.


I have a hard won degree in engineering with a focus on communication
electronics and systems. Greg is far more knowledgeable of past and
current electronic communication systems (computers, etc.) than I ever
was or will ever be because I never used the formal education in the
field I ended up in. I don't even know how to program a DVR although
that's mainly because I have no interest in using them.

The field I worked in almost 40 years is heavy in physics backed with
mechanical and electrical engineering. There is no college level
degree program (at least there wasn't when I was still attending
school) in the technology I was involved with. A working understanding
of the technology requires self education, drawing from other fields
of study.





I didn't comment on Greg's knowledge of electronics communications
systems. I don't disagree that a lot of knowledge can come from being
self-taught but in a lot of cases, that knowledge needs the refinement
that only comes from an environment that includes formal education,
training, certification.



"Lot of cases"? That's where I think you are wrong. The degree may
qualify you ... it's the main reason I pursued one ... in the eyes of
others but it doesn't mean you don't have the knowledge or expertise
to do your job. College doesn't teach that ... I know that for a fact.

On 2/10/15 1:52 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 9:47 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 7:26 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:58 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 6:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or
lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal
term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a
prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is
that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)



The greatest living expert…

…in rec.boats has to be Greg Fretwell…

…because in catching up on the last few days of posts, I read
that he
has *all* the answers on:

* capital punishment

* mental illness

* physicians and their motivators

* snow

* prisons and inmates

* labor unions

* the Middle East

* drone warfare

* politics

This is an absolutely amazing accomplishment for a fellow who has
*no*
college degrees in anything, no expertise in the criminal justice
system; no decade of education, training, examination and
certification
in treating mental illnesses; no medical degree; no experience in
diplomacy; no experience in high level politics, et cetera, et
cetera,
et cetera.

Greg, you're just amazing. If there's ever a call for another
all-seeing, all-knowing oracle, you're the man. No need for
anyone to
spend decades of their lives learning and perfecting a high-level
skill
set. Just seek out *The Greg*.




You forgot "keeper of the keys" for Windows 95. :-)



Ah, yes. Well, as I am not "the expert" in everything, I hope you'll
excuse that memory lapse.

It is obvious that Greg's primary motivator is $$$. He doesn't give a
**** about capital punishment, beyond the fact that handing a
murderer a
suicide pill is cheaper than housing him for life, that he doesn't
give
a rat's ass about the Middle East beyond cutting military aid
($$$) to
Israel, et cetera. A secondary motivator is to make himself feel
better
about never getting a college degree by putting down those who did.





I would argue that you tend to put too much emphasis on why a degree
is required to be qualified in any particular subject or discipline.
There are plenty of examples of degree-less, self-taught and educated
people who have made major contributions to society (or simply had
successful careers in their chosen field of work). There are also
many examples of highly educated people holding multiple degrees who
are total failures or represent warped views that affect society.

I think the problem in a discussion group like rec.boats is how
information and opinions are presented. An "IMO" or "I think" before
stating a belief takes the edge off of what seems to bother you
regarding Greg. He posts his views as if they are certain fact, but
most are simply opinions that are viewed differently by others.

BTW ... you often post in the same manner, especially when it comes
to politics.



I think Greg is qualified to discuss snow and politics.


I have a hard won degree in engineering with a focus on communication
electronics and systems. Greg is far more knowledgeable of past and
current electronic communication systems (computers, etc.) than I ever
was or will ever be because I never used the formal education in the
field I ended up in. I don't even know how to program a DVR although
that's mainly because I have no interest in using them.

The field I worked in almost 40 years is heavy in physics backed with
mechanical and electrical engineering. There is no college level
degree program (at least there wasn't when I was still attending
school) in the technology I was involved with. A working understanding
of the technology requires self education, drawing from other fields
of study.





I didn't comment on Greg's knowledge of electronics communications
systems. I don't disagree that a lot of knowledge can come from being
self-taught but in a lot of cases, that knowledge needs the refinement
that only comes from an environment that includes formal education,
training, certification.



"Lot of cases"? That's where I think you are wrong. The degree may
qualify you ... it's the main reason I pursued one ... in the eyes of
others but it doesn't mean you don't have the knowledge or expertise
to do your job. College doesn't teach that ... I know that for a fact.




Uh, let's try that again: Formal education, training, certification.
Got it?


--
Proud to be a Liberal.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/10/2015 9:47 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 7:26 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 7:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:58 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/10/15 6:50 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2015 6:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/8/15 11:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 18:17:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:


Seems like *everyone* is bipolar now-a-days.

There is a lot of money in mental illness so it does get diagnosed
more than it may actually exist.


So, you and Greg feel that a person who kills someone but is
determined
to be insane should just automatically to to the chair ... or
lethal
injection gurney?

It would depend on the depth of the "mental defect" (the legal
term)
and the severity of the crime but if it was a capital case and
abhorrent enough to survive all of the mandatory appeals, why not
execute them just like you would anyone else?

I also see little difference between life in prison and life in a
correctional mental facility. It is just a prison with a
prescription
drug plan. They keep the inmates drugged into submission. Is that a
life? (yes I have been in one in my job)



The greatest living expert…

…in rec.boats has to be Greg Fretwell…

…because in catching up on the last few days of posts, I read
that he
has *all* the answers on:

* capital punishment

* mental illness

* physicians and their motivators

* snow

* prisons and inmates

* labor unions

* the Middle East

* drone warfare

* politics

This is an absolutely amazing accomplishment for a fellow who has
*no*
college degrees in anything, no expertise in the criminal justice
system; no decade of education, training, examination and
certification
in treating mental illnesses; no medical degree; no experience in
diplomacy; no experience in high level politics, et cetera, et
cetera,
et cetera.

Greg, you're just amazing. If there's ever a call for another
all-seeing, all-knowing oracle, you're the man. No need for
anyone to
spend decades of their lives learning and perfecting a high-level
skill
set. Just seek out *The Greg*.




You forgot "keeper of the keys" for Windows 95. :-)



Ah, yes. Well, as I am not "the expert" in everything, I hope you'll
excuse that memory lapse.

It is obvious that Greg's primary motivator is $$$. He doesn't give a
**** about capital punishment, beyond the fact that handing a
murderer a
suicide pill is cheaper than housing him for life, that he doesn't
give
a rat's ass about the Middle East beyond cutting military aid ($$$) to
Israel, et cetera. A secondary motivator is to make himself feel
better
about never getting a college degree by putting down those who did.





I would argue that you tend to put too much emphasis on why a degree
is required to be qualified in any particular subject or discipline.
There are plenty of examples of degree-less, self-taught and educated
people who have made major contributions to society (or simply had
successful careers in their chosen field of work). There are also
many examples of highly educated people holding multiple degrees who
are total failures or represent warped views that affect society.

I think the problem in a discussion group like rec.boats is how
information and opinions are presented. An "IMO" or "I think" before
stating a belief takes the edge off of what seems to bother you
regarding Greg. He posts his views as if they are certain fact, but
most are simply opinions that are viewed differently by others.

BTW ... you often post in the same manner, especially when it comes
to politics.



I think Greg is qualified to discuss snow and politics.


I have a hard won degree in engineering with a focus on communication
electronics and systems. Greg is far more knowledgeable of past and
current electronic communication systems (computers, etc.) than I ever
was or will ever be because I never used the formal education in the
field I ended up in. I don't even know how to program a DVR although
that's mainly because I have no interest in using them.

The field I worked in almost 40 years is heavy in physics backed with
mechanical and electrical engineering. There is no college level
degree program (at least there wasn't when I was still attending
school) in the technology I was involved with. A working understanding
of the technology requires self education, drawing from other fields
of study.





I didn't comment on Greg's knowledge of electronics communications
systems. I don't disagree that a lot of knowledge can come from being
self-taught but in a lot of cases, that knowledge needs the refinement
that only comes from an environment that includes formal education,
training, certification.



"Lot of cases"? That's where I think you are wrong. The degree may
qualify you ... it's the main reason I pursued one ... in the eyes of
others but it doesn't mean you don't have the knowledge or expertise
to do your job. College doesn't teach that ... I know that for a fact.

When I was doing hiring interviews, there were degreed and non degreed
engineers. I would hire a degreed engineer over an equal non degreed
engineer, for the simple reason, they proved they could stick to something
for the duration.

wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 22:29:30 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:

"Lot of cases"? That's where I think you are wrong. The degree may
qualify you ... it's the main reason I pursued one ... in the eyes of
others but it doesn't mean you don't have the knowledge or expertise
to do your job. College doesn't teach that ... I know that for a fact.

When I was doing hiring interviews, there were degreed and non degreed
engineers. I would hire a degreed engineer over an equal non degreed
engineer, for the simple reason, they proved they could stick to something
for the duration.

Engineer is a bad example. You pretty much need college to get that
certification from IEEE.

Ask the same question about hiring a retail manager or a
programmer/analyst and how would you answer?
If it was anything near the construction business I doubt there is
even a question to ask.

Experience will beat education every time for a company that actually
wants to succeed.

Lots of states do not require a degree for engineer title. To get a PE
certificate, you have to pass tests as well as experience, and most likely
can not pass the test without university math. When I took the EIT I was
just out of school, no was 30 years old, worked my way through university,
and passed the test. 2 years later would have been hard to pass it.

Fortunately my daughter is working on a 2 year masters program which is about 30 grand a year. She's working a trade off which entails making almost nothing but some pocket monies. Though her tuition is paid for by working at the college, When she's done she'll have a masters in "coaching" which will pay her about 22,000 a year as their assistant vollyball coach.

Yeah, my wife and I are still paying 'child support' lol!

wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:57:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

Fortunately my daughter is working on a 2 year masters program which is
about 30 grand a year. She's working a trade off which entails making
almost nothing but some pocket monies. Though her tuition is paid for by
working at the college, When she's done she'll have a masters in
"coaching" which will pay her about 22,000 a year as their assistant vollyball coach.

Yeah, my wife and I are still paying 'child support' lol!

My son in law has a masters in "beach" (environmental) something and
he ended up being a park ranger for $25k. It took him quite a while
before he could move up and he still topped out around $50k at Florida
water management.
Then he went to law school, passed the bar and he is still looking for
another job, without as much luck as he expected.
Student debt is now over $200k now with 20 years of accrued interest
on the original loan and subsequent ones.

That is the insidious trap in student loans. As long as you are taking
"something" you can defer the payments so kids keep going back for
more and piling on the debt.

I do think it is funny that a quarter century ago the scandal was
banks giving college students credit cards and then the colleges saw
the gravy train and jumped on it themselves. Now the student loans are
much bigger than a bank would ever let a credit card debt get before
they shut them down.

The other problem with student loans is the government. Why do the Fed's
set an 8% rate on student loans, when they are loaning money to the FED and
zero interest rate?