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#2
posted to rec.boats
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Stabil again
On 1/27/2015 2:16 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:43:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/26/2015 8:41 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:23:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/26/2015 5:10 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring. I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No problems with leaks or floats since. Never let logic get in the way of a good anecdote I guess. Virtually every small engine tool I have ever bought had instructions not to store them full of fuel. The generator in my garage even has a fitting in the fuel line to drain the tank. E-10 even makes that a worse idea. Who reads the instructions? :-) Why is E-10 worse? If the fuel lines and other components are designed for E-10 what harm does it do? I can certainly understand older systems that were never designed for it. My last boat had newer, USCG approved fuel lines but they were not E-10 rated. The surveyor picked up on it and recommended replacing them. The short answer is phase separation. E10 absorbs water and pretty soon the alcohol gets saturated and comes out of solution. It is a good news bad news situation. The stuff at the top of the tank is low octane gas. The stuff in the bottom, where the pickup sits, is low octane vodka sludge. It will not burn and it is pretty nasty on everything on the fuel system. Greg, there are millions of cars and trucks running just fine on E-10, E-15 and E-85 and they tend to run longer (much higher mileage in today's engines) with no negative affects due to ethanol. Eethanol's primary purpose is that of an oxygenater to reduce carbon and unburned fuel in emissions. It was introduced to replace methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) that was banned because it was contaminating groundwater. The phase separation you mention might be a problem in large fuel tanks (like in a car or boat) if the gas sits for years but I don't think it's a big deal in a little generator with a gallon of gas in it or a lawn mower with even less. In any case, I've never had a problem with it in the generator or small engine gas tanks, even after sitting for years. The E-10 can start going bad in months, not years. I run it but I keep my gas moving. We boat 3-4 days a week, year round. If you have a trailer queen, you will have troubles. You only have to read the notes on a real boat board to hear about it. I also hear people with small gas powered equipment around here saying the same thing. Chain saws seem to be the main ones since they may not be used that often although people with "natural" (not irrigated) lawns may not start their mower or weed eater for several months either. Climate probably has a lot to do with it. Well, I guess I am lucky. I just remembered something. About 3 months ago I bought a 1988 Lincoln Town Car from a guy who has a collection of older cars. It had been sitting in his garage for well over a year ... maybe a couple of years ... unused. He had removed the battery for use in another car. We put a new battery in it and after a few cranks it started up and ran fine. Car had half a tank of regular gas in it (E-10). Since then I've put close to 1,000 miles on it in around town driving. Obviously the old gas is now long gone but the car ran and continues to run perfectly. Not sure I buy all the horror stories of E-10. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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Stabil again
On 1/27/2015 1:27 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 02:57:15 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/27/2015 2:16 AM, wrote: On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 00:43:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/26/2015 8:41 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:23:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 1/26/2015 5:10 PM, wrote: On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 15:56:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: My experience with lawnmowers was that draining the gas at the end of the year usually resulted in leaks and float problems in the spring. I just leave the gas in them now, along with a shot of Stabil. No problems with leaks or floats since. Never let logic get in the way of a good anecdote I guess. Virtually every small engine tool I have ever bought had instructions not to store them full of fuel. The generator in my garage even has a fitting in the fuel line to drain the tank. E-10 even makes that a worse idea. Who reads the instructions? :-) Why is E-10 worse? If the fuel lines and other components are designed for E-10 what harm does it do? I can certainly understand older systems that were never designed for it. My last boat had newer, USCG approved fuel lines but they were not E-10 rated. The surveyor picked up on it and recommended replacing them. The short answer is phase separation. E10 absorbs water and pretty soon the alcohol gets saturated and comes out of solution. It is a good news bad news situation. The stuff at the top of the tank is low octane gas. The stuff in the bottom, where the pickup sits, is low octane vodka sludge. It will not burn and it is pretty nasty on everything on the fuel system. Greg, there are millions of cars and trucks running just fine on E-10, E-15 and E-85 and they tend to run longer (much higher mileage in today's engines) with no negative affects due to ethanol. Eethanol's primary purpose is that of an oxygenater to reduce carbon and unburned fuel in emissions. It was introduced to replace methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) that was banned because it was contaminating groundwater. The phase separation you mention might be a problem in large fuel tanks (like in a car or boat) if the gas sits for years but I don't think it's a big deal in a little generator with a gallon of gas in it or a lawn mower with even less. In any case, I've never had a problem with it in the generator or small engine gas tanks, even after sitting for years. The E-10 can start going bad in months, not years. I run it but I keep my gas moving. We boat 3-4 days a week, year round. If you have a trailer queen, you will have troubles. You only have to read the notes on a real boat board to hear about it. I also hear people with small gas powered equipment around here saying the same thing. Chain saws seem to be the main ones since they may not be used that often although people with "natural" (not irrigated) lawns may not start their mower or weed eater for several months either. Climate probably has a lot to do with it. Well, I guess I am lucky. I just remembered something. About 3 months ago I bought a 1988 Lincoln Town Car from a guy who has a collection of older cars. It had been sitting in his garage for well over a year ... maybe a couple of years ... unused. He had removed the battery for use in another car. We put a new battery in it and after a few cranks it started up and ran fine. Car had half a tank of regular gas in it (E-10). Since then I've put close to 1,000 miles on it in around town driving. Obviously the old gas is now long gone but the car ran and continues to run perfectly. Not sure I buy all the horror stories of E-10. The story is a car tank (since the 70s) is not vented like a boat or a mower. It is not as likely to collect moisture. I am not convinced it is as bad as people say but there are plenty of anecdotes in the boating community about problems, including from the dealer mechanics who clean up the messes. I do think these things can take on a life of their own and every bad thing gets blamed on ethanol.. Heat and humidity will be a bigger issue here tho, particularly near the water. I agree with the boat problems. I think the boating industry was caught with their pants down when ethanol was introduced and probably didn't fully understand what the material compatability issues are. I just mentioned in another reply post to you about Yellowfin. I knew a dealer for their boats up here and remember them having some problems with the built-in fiberglass gas tanks. The ethanol was reacting with the resin they used. The problem was short-lived and Yellowfin fixed the few boats that had problems. |
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