On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!” Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,”
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.”

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,” the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good reason”
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally permitted to
carry a gun,” he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.

On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!” Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,”
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.”

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,” the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good reason”
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally permitted to
carry a gun,” he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.



--
Proud to be a Liberal.

On 1/21/2015 4:18 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack
after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a
Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to
buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old
vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!” Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,”
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.”

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,” the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good
reason”
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally
permitted to
carry a gun,” he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.





Ah, but "gut" feels is a form of prejudice, stereotyping and, in some
cases, racism.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2015 4:18 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack
after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a
Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to
buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old
vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!� Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!� Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,�
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.�

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,� the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good
reason�
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally
permitted to
carry a gun,� he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.





Ah, but "gut" feels is a form of prejudice, stereotyping and, in some cases, racism.

Recent history teaches that if you are black, you are more likely to have a
bad outcome in these sorts of encounters.


--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Keyser Söze wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2015 4:18 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack
after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a
Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to
buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old
vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!� Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!� Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,�
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.�

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,� the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good
reason�
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally
permitted to
carry a gun,� he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.





Ah, but "gut" feels is a form of prejudice, stereotyping and, in some cases, racism.

Recent history teaches that if you are black, you are more likely to have a
bad outcome in these sorts of encounters.



History also tells us violent crime by blacks is way out of proportion to
their percent of the population.

On 1/21/15 7:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2015 4:18 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack
after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a
Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to
buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old
vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!� Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!� Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,�
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.�

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,� the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good
reason�
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally
permitted to
carry a gun,� he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.





Ah, but "gut" feels is a form of prejudice, stereotyping and, in some cases, racism.

Recent history teaches that if you are black, you are more likely to have a
bad outcome in these sorts of encounters.



History also tells us violent crime by blacks is way out of proportion to
their percent of the population.


Which has nothing to do with the reported incident.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

On 1/21/2015 7:12 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
Recent history teaches that if you are black, you are more likely to
have a
bad outcome in these sorts of encounters.



History also tells us violent crime by blacks is way out of proportion to
their percent of the population.


Which has nothing to do with the reported incident.

Which has anything to do with the reported incident?

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 7:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2015 4:18 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack
after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a
Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to
buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old
vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!� Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!� Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,�
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.�

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,� the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good
reason�
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally
permitted to
carry a gun,� he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.





Ah, but "gut" feels is a form of prejudice, stereotyping and, in some cases, racism.

Recent history teaches that if you are black, you are more likely to have a
bad outcome in these sorts of encounters.



History also tells us violent crime by blacks is way out of proportion to
their percent of the population.


Which has nothing to do with the reported incident.


Adds to the worry.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 19:12:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 1/21/15 7:09 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/21/2015 4:18 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 4:09 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack
after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a
Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to
buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old
vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!” Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,”
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.”

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,” the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good
reason”
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally
permitted to
carry a gun,” he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.



Well, of course. That's why I qualified the statement with my gut feeling.





Ah, but "gut" feels is a form of prejudice, stereotyping and, in some cases, racism.

Recent history teaches that if you are black, you are more likely to have a
bad outcome in these sorts of encounters.



History also tells us violent crime by blacks is way out of proportion to
their percent of the population.


Which has nothing to do with the reported incident.

Much more than: "Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white."
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 16:09:17 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/21/2015 2:09 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/15 2:04 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2015 13:46:39 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/15 1:38 PM, jps wrote:
The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office has asked vigilantes to
please be careful about which gun owners they choose to attack after a
black concealed carry permit holder was wrongly assaulted at a Florida
Walmart.

According to the Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office, 62-year-old Clarence
Daniels was entering Walmart with his legally concealed firearm to buy
coffee creamer on Tuesday when he was spotted by 43-year-old vigilante
Michael Foster.

Foster, who is white, had observed Daniels conceal the weapon under
his coat before he came into the store. When Daniels crossed the
threshold, Foster tackled him and placed him in a chokehold,
Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Larry McKinnon explained.

“He’s got a gun!” Foster reportedly exclaimed.

“I have a permit!” Daniels repeatedly shouted back.

After a struggle, the men were separated. Deputies later arrived and
Foster was charged with battery.

“Unfortunately he tackled a guy that was a law-abiding citizen,”
McKinnon noted. “We understand it’s alarming for people to see other
people with guns, but Florida has a large population of concealed
weapons permit holders.”

“The Sheriff’s Office recommends that vigilante-inclined citizens
refrain from taking matters into their own hands, especially when an
incident is gun-related,” the Tampa Bay Times reported.

McKinnon said that vigilantes should “make sure there’s a good reason”
before tackling gun owners.

“Otherwise you might be confronting a guy that is legally permitted to
carry a gun,” he pointed out.


Concealed carry permits are cool, as long as you're white.



Sad but true.

===

Daniels certainly did not deserve to be assaulted but he did violate
one of the cardinal rules of concealed carry which is to keep your
weapon concealed at all times. Allowing someone else to see your
firearm can be considered "brandishing" under some circumstances.


My gut tells me that if Daniels were a white guy, the self-appointed
vigilante, Michael Foster, would have ignored the guy. I hope but I
doubt Daniels gets some slammer time.



"Gut" feels are nothing but a prejudgement. You have no idea what
the guy would have done if the gun guy was white.

Okay, forget the gut feeling. What are the odds? Think past events
are going to support an equal number on both sides of that equation?

I'm thinkin' they support my original assumption that white folks are
going to prejudge black folks as threatening far more often than black
folks are going to conclude the same of whites.