BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.

My dad was a hunter, I do not really remember guns not being around. But
it was impressed on us they were not toys. My cap guns were toys. Dads
were not.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit. Part
of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment that
involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball bat.

I grew up in a machine shop environment. At 10 years old, I was a good
machinist. Look at what the kids build out of blocks, etc, and you see
they have the dexterity to handle tools. And does not take a lot of smarts
to use an angle grinder.

wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:46 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:01:23 -0400, KC wrote:

Again, I agree. Youtube all you want, then try it. I tried to Youtube a
lock for our trailer, the technique, perfectly applied failed miserably.
When I was a kid I decided that since I kept losing house keys, I would
just make a pic set and learn to pick the locks around the house. I was
always pretty good with tools and such, had a friend who helped me make
the tools (his dad did locksmithing) but never actually had success with
a 5 pin houselock and rakepick...

Lock picking just takes the touch,. Once you get the hang of it, you
can do it.
You put tension on the cylinder and probe each pin, feeling for the
spot that it lines up, when you get them all, the lock turns.
A high quality "pin" lock, where the tolerances are tight, can be
tough, those with the wafers like a desk drawer lock are trivial.
They have vibrating picks that are a lot easier to use

Or you just make a bump key ;-)

Some of the door locks are really hard to pick, as they have a notch in the
pin to defeat the pressure method. But lots of locks are easy to pick.
When I started at NCR we all made lock picks to open registers that the
customer lost the keys, and we did not want to go to the office to get a
copy.

The IBM register locks were the wafer design and very easy to pick. I
imagine NCR used the same type of lock.
I think we only had about 12 keys anyway. I carried 2 on my key chain
that opened about half the registers in Ft Myers.

I still have a ring of about 50 different keys. Over the years the keys
were different sizes.

On 11/4/2014 12:07 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit. Part
of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment that
involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball bat.

I grew up in a machine shop environment. At 10 years old, I was a good
machinist. Look at what the kids build out of blocks, etc, and you see
they have the dexterity to handle tools. And does not take a lot of smarts
to use an angle grinder.



Nope but I watched a 35 year old guy slice his stomach open with one.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.

I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Gun registration does little in solving crimes; it reduces it.
Keeps the guns in the hands of fewer people.
Make it a big hassle to own a gun, and "marginal" people are less likely
to get their hands on one. Simple as that.

===

One man's "marginal person" is another man's fine, upstanding citizen.
Who gets to decide - some government bureaucrat who may not like guns
in the first place?


Lawmakers write the laws, last I heard.
Vote for the ones you like, and live with it.
By "marginal" I'm simply talking about non-gun nuts who won't go to the
trouble to comply, so won't get their hands on guns.
Their call. It won't stop the gun nuts. They can have their guns.
"Casual" gun ownership is dangerous.
Strict gun laws save lives.
Let the gun nuts and cops take care of the bad guys.
If you won't jump through some hoops to exercise you "2nd Amendment
rights" you don't deserve them.

What about the other 9 of the Bill of Rights?

I hope he'll show us how many lives were saved in Chicago last year
because of the strict gun laws.

On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.

On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.

--
“There’s more idleness and abuse of government favors among the
economically privileged than among the ranks of the disadvantaged.” -
Norman Mailer

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:41:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

No ****.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.



Honestly, I was not espousing that as the proper way to do things
these days. Nor was it meant to be a reason or excuse for not doing
things your way.

I think most people here wish the laws in existence would be enforced,
rather than piling on more laws to *not* be enforced. Your solution
seems to be lots of paperwork and more beaurocracy, as though that
will make everything hunky-dory.

Just as sad.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:52:31 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.

Yup, we're all ****ed up. Now, are you and Luddite happy?