On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.

--
“There’s more idleness and abuse of government favors among the
economically privileged than among the ranks of the disadvantaged.” -
Norman Mailer

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:52:31 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.

Yup, we're all ****ed up. Now, are you and Luddite happy?

On 11/4/2014 3:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have
kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold
that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my
possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.


Not all conservatives. It seems to only be the hard right.

Those issues, although historically important, are not controversial
now-a-days. Violent, gun related crime and accidents with guns in homes
are.

If gun ownership is important to people, they should be applying their
thought process towards constructive ways to reduce gun crimes and
accidents rather than just reciting the 2nd Amendment and providing
excuses and reasons why nothing can be done.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:12:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 3:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have
kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold
that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my
possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.


Not all conservatives. It seems to only be the hard right.

Those issues, although historically important, are not controversial
now-a-days. Violent, gun related crime and accidents with guns in homes
are.

If gun ownership is important to people, they should be applying their
thought process towards constructive ways to reduce gun crimes and
accidents rather than just reciting the 2nd Amendment and providing
excuses and reasons why nothing can be done.


How about better law enforcement? That's *something* that could be
done.

On 11/4/2014 4:21 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:12:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 3:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 2:05 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:26:22 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 11/4/2014 9:58 AM, KC wrote:
On 11/4/2014 9:47 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 01:58:45 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

You don't give kids enough credit. They are useless feel good
devices
similar to useless feel good laws.

Just go in my garage and get an angle grinder or dremel or the
cutting
torch.

I opened the trigger lock I have with a paper clip and didn't damage
it at all. Mom and Dad would have no idea I have free access to the
gun


Like to see that vid...


Me too. Kids using angle grinders, cutting torches and dremel tools.

There's another solution. Don't have guns around when you have
kids in
the household.

I never felt a desire or need for having guns in the house while we
were
raising our three kids. I didn't hunt and guns really didn't hold
that
much interest to me.

It wasn't until about four years ago that I decided to get a permit.
Part of the reasoning was because of the great guitar shop experiment
that involved carrying a relatively large amount of cash and the
recommendation of a lawyer. The other was the recognition that I was
getting older, we had already experienced a home invasion and I
wanted a
last resort means of defending my wife and I other than a baseball
bat.

My parents gave me a .22 rifle when I was 12 years old. I still have it
and will have it until the day I die. It has never killed a living
breathing animal or human. It has destroyed countless targets. I
received the firearm about 41 years ago and it has been in my
possession
every where I have lived since I received it. My kids didn't know about
it until they were about 14 or 15.




I was about the same age when I got mine. There were other guns in the
house, my dad's, my grandfathers, several shotguns and rifles. I had
three younger brothers at the time, and we had no special way we
secured the weapons. They were kept in a closet...no lock or keys.
Somehow we all lived, and no one had an accident.



Uh-Huh. Did you have violent video games and gory movies back then that
glorified killing and maiming with blood spurting out of gunshot wounds
and guts plastering the walls?

Or did you watch Davey Crockett and Daniel Boone like I did?

This is a different age and a different society John. It's not the
1940's and 1950's.

This thread has amazed me about one thing. It's incredible how many
reasons and excuses people can come up with *not* to try anything to
reduce gun related crimes or accidents. I guess most people here think
everything is just hunky-dory fine the way things are. Sad.





Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act.


Not all conservatives. It seems to only be the hard right.

Those issues, although historically important, are not controversial
now-a-days. Violent, gun related crime and accidents with guns in homes
are.

If gun ownership is important to people, they should be applying their
thought process towards constructive ways to reduce gun crimes and
accidents rather than just reciting the 2nd Amendment and providing
excuses and reasons why nothing can be done.



How about better law enforcement? That's *something* that could be
done.

Ok. How?

On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 4:12:56 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 3:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


Not all conservatives. It seems to only be the hard right.

Seemed as though there were a lot of Democrats and almost *all* of the Republican senators who voted against stricter gun controls here recently. To say only the 'hard right' is far from accurate.

On 11/4/2014 6:01 PM, John H wrote:
On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 4:12:56 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 3:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:




Not all conservatives. It seems to only be the hard right.

Seemed as though there were a lot of Democrats and almost *all* of the Republican senators who voted against stricter gun controls here recently. To say only the 'hard right' is far from accurate.



John, you snipped Harry's paragraph to which my response was directed:

"Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act."

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:10:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/4/2014 6:01 PM, John H wrote:
On Tuesday, November 4, 2014 4:12:56 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/4/2014 3:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 11/4/14 2:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:




Not all conservatives. It seems to only be the hard right.

Seemed as though there were a lot of Democrats and almost *all* of the Republican senators who voted against stricter gun controls here recently. To say only the 'hard right' is far from accurate.



John, you snipped Harry's paragraph to which my response was directed:

"Conservatives have used the same excuses to fight the end of slavery,
the end of child labor, to fight against giving women the vote, to fight
against the passage of the civil rights act."


So your comment had nothing to do with the 'hard right' excuses not
having stricter gun controls? That makes little sense given the
subject of the discussion.

I don't recall anyone mentioning 2A with regard to any of those
'excuses'.

If you've decided to use the lame, bull**** quotes of Krause, then do
it on your own.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:12:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

If gun ownership is important to people, they should be applying their
thought process towards constructive ways to reduce gun crimes

===

First, you've got to solve the drug problem.

Next, you've got to tackle the inner city violence problem.

Last but not necessarily least, you've got to solve the violence in
media problem.

You're trying to waltz around the symptoms while ignoring the root
causes. Yes, I know that it would be easier to repeal the 2A than
solve the 3 above, but at least you'd be working in the right
direction.

With regard to gun accidents, I really don't see that as a major
issue.

On 11/4/2014 6:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:12:54 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

If gun ownership is important to people, they should be applying their
thought process towards constructive ways to reduce gun crimes

===

First, you've got to solve the drug problem.

Next, you've got to tackle the inner city violence problem.

Last but not necessarily least, you've got to solve the violence in
media problem.

You're trying to waltz around the symptoms while ignoring the root
causes. Yes, I know that it would be easier to repeal the 2A than
solve the 3 above, but at least you'd be working in the right
direction.

With regard to gun accidents, I really don't see that as a major
issue.



I agree with those. I also agree they are probably more difficult to
solve than just banning guns altogether which will *not* solve the drug,
inner city violence or media problems.

I have concerns that if nothing is done the easier route will become the
preferred route by our government, especially if we continue to see
these wackos conducting mass killings. I don't think the 2A will ever
be repealed entirely but it may be modified or re-interpreted by a more
liberal Supreme Court some day in the future.

That's why, as a gun owner, having some willingness to tighten up on
some of the gun laws and work on eliminating the illegal gun trade and
loopholes may demonstrate a cooperative spirit that takes some of the
wind out of the sails of those who advocate much more severe
restrictions or outright bans.

I don't advocate the banning of guns, despite what some may have concluded.