Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.


--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:30:29 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.

So Noah did build a big boat and put all the animals on it, Jonah
lived inside a whale and the earth is 8,000 years old, OK.
Make up your mind, is it a fact or fiction. You can't have it both
ways. You can't just cherry pick the parts that support a land grab
and ridicule the rest.

Bear in mind this is the same book that says it is OK to beat your
wife, advocates slavery, says you should stone adulterers and calls
being gay an abomination.


Hmm. Where did I say that I thought the story of Noah was real? Answer:
nowhere. There is evidence of a substantial and devastating flood in
that part of the world in biblical or pre-biblical times and there are
folk tale variations of the "Noah saga" among other peoples. As I
stated, earlier man looked for ways to explain what he didn't
understand, and came up with supernatural folk tales...such as the one
about Noah and of course, about a super creator.

Had you taken some liberal arts courses, you might have gained an
appreciation for oral traditions and the later writing down of same.

Some parts of the old testament have contemporaneous validity in
separate historical records and common traditions and others do not.
That's the way it was, prior to Google, eh?

I'm not saying you suffer from it, but...perhaps you might want to study
up on Rigid Personality. Despite what you apparently think and believe,
everything is *not* either/or.



--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 10:02 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:30:29 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.

So Noah did build a big boat and put all the animals on it, Jonah
lived inside a whale and the earth is 8,000 years old, OK.
Make up your mind, is it a fact or fiction. You can't have it both
ways. You can't just cherry pick the parts that support a land grab
and ridicule the rest.

Bear in mind this is the same book that says it is OK to beat your
wife, advocates slavery, says you should stone adulterers and calls
being gay an abomination.


Hmm. Where did I say that I thought the story of Noah was real? Answer:
nowhere. There is evidence of a substantial and devastating flood in
that part of the world in biblical or pre-biblical times and there are
folk tale variations of the "Noah saga" among other peoples. As I
stated, earlier man looked for ways to explain what he didn't
understand, and came up with supernatural folk tales...such as the one
about Noah and of course, about a super creator.

Had you taken some liberal arts courses, you might have gained an
appreciation for oral traditions and the later writing down of same.

Some parts of the old testament have contemporaneous validity in
separate historical records and common traditions and others do not.
That's the way it was, prior to Google, eh?

I'm not saying you suffer from it, but...perhaps you might want to study
up on Rigid Personality. Despite what you apparently think and believe,
everything is *not* either/or.




It's odd that you are soooo tolerant of Jews yet you despise other
religions.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 8:30 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.




Similar to many of your posts of today. :-)

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 10:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 8:30 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.




Similar to many of your posts of today. :-)




You're really sliding down hill. My beliefs are different from yours,
yet while I disagree with much of what you post of a political nature, I
don't usually attack you personally.



--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 10:26 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 10:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 8:30 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.




Similar to many of your posts of today. :-)




You're really sliding down hill. My beliefs are different from yours,
yet while I disagree with much of what you post of a political nature, I
don't usually attack you personally.




True. I guess I am just getting tired of the same old BS over and over
and over. It gets old after a while and I lose interest in trying to
offer up alternative views. It's like someone who constantly talks
about his/her kids as if no one else in the world has any child rearing
experience. After a while they become less important to you.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.


--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.

--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

I don't see a victory for Ali Greg in this, since all I have stated is
that I understand how and why folk tales are the rationale for much of
what is in the bible.

When you don't understand the solar system or the fact that the earth
revolves around the sun or that crops tend to sprout in the spring, it's
understandable why you'd attribute day and night and growth to an item
of worship. When your ancestors talked about a horrific flood and that
story was passed down for centuries or longer, it's not that difficult
to understand why the tale of Noah came about.

--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:02:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Had you taken some liberal arts courses, you might have gained an
appreciation

===

Haven't we seen this movie before?

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 12:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence
of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

I don't see a victory for Ali Greg in this, since all I have stated is
that I understand how and why folk tales are the rationale for much of
what is in the bible.

When you don't understand the solar system or the fact that the earth
revolves around the sun or that crops tend to sprout in the spring, it's
understandable why you'd attribute day and night and growth to an item
of worship. When your ancestors talked about a horrific flood and that
story was passed down for centuries or longer, it's not that difficult
to understand why the tale of Noah came about.



Why are you explaining all this? What does the story of Noah have to do
with the debate you are having with Greg about Israel?

Sometimes your arguments are self-defeating.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 11:59 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:31:35 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.

If you are citing an alleged historical text, "abstract" has nothing
to do with it.



Whoosh.

--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times

===

No doubt a "climate change" incident brought on by donkey and camel
farts.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 12:25 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 12:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were
events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence
of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about
as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

I don't see a victory for Ali Greg in this, since all I have stated is
that I understand how and why folk tales are the rationale for much of
what is in the bible.

When you don't understand the solar system or the fact that the earth
revolves around the sun or that crops tend to sprout in the spring, it's
understandable why you'd attribute day and night and growth to an item
of worship. When your ancestors talked about a horrific flood and that
story was passed down for centuries or longer, it's not that difficult
to understand why the tale of Noah came about.



Why are you explaining all this? What does the story of Noah have to do
with the debate you are having with Greg about Israel?

Sometimes your arguments are self-defeating.


Hahaha. You guys are hysterical. Thanks for the fun.

--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

Yup. When Greg decides to go on the offensive, he does a pretty good job.
And you're not too shabby either. ;-)

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/2014 12:38 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 12:25 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 12:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our
disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were
events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence
of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about
as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is
for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for
you.



Rope-a-dope

I don't see a victory for Ali Greg in this, since all I have stated is
that I understand how and why folk tales are the rationale for much of
what is in the bible.

When you don't understand the solar system or the fact that the earth
revolves around the sun or that crops tend to sprout in the spring, it's
understandable why you'd attribute day and night and growth to an item
of worship. When your ancestors talked about a horrific flood and that
story was passed down for centuries or longer, it's not that difficult
to understand why the tale of Noah came about.



Why are you explaining all this? What does the story of Noah have to do
with the debate you are having with Greg about Israel?

Sometimes your arguments are self-defeating.


Hahaha. You guys are hysterical. Thanks for the fun.


It seems that you can't engage those guys in a debate on anything that
matters. So why start something you can't finish?

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On Monday, October 13, 2014 10:26:46 AM UTC-4, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 10:21 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

On 10/13/2014 8:30 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:









You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.



Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,

they lamented:



"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue

stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep

Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."



Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before

Roosevelt and Truman.





I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.

Now you are citing it as historical fact.



If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.





I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a

collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that

history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the

attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.









Similar to many of your posts of today. :-)









You're really sliding down hill. My beliefs are different from yours,

yet while I disagree with much of what you post of a political nature, I

don't usually attack you personally.


But YOU...attack everyone.

**** OFF YOU HYPOCRITE.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:02:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 9:51 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:30:29 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 12:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:19:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/12/14 2:08 PM, wrote:




You obviously are ignorant of Jewish history.

Are you also ignorant of Psalms? When the Jews were exiled to Babylon,
they lamented:

"If I forget you, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue
stick to my palate if I cease to think of you, if I do not keep
Jerusalem in memory even at my happiest hour."

Return to Israel was in the minds of the Jewish people long before
Roosevelt and Truman.


I thought you say the bible is a fairy tale.
Now you are citing it as historical fact.

If you are to believe the bible that was a conquest too.


I've also said the old testament was mostly a history of a people, a
collection of oral tradition stories put down in writing. Some of that
history is history, and some of it -the supernatural part- is the
attempt of earlier man trying to explain what he didn't understand.

So Noah did build a big boat and put all the animals on it, Jonah
lived inside a whale and the earth is 8,000 years old, OK.
Make up your mind, is it a fact or fiction. You can't have it both
ways. You can't just cherry pick the parts that support a land grab
and ridicule the rest.

Bear in mind this is the same book that says it is OK to beat your
wife, advocates slavery, says you should stone adulterers and calls
being gay an abomination.


Hmm. Where did I say that I thought the story of Noah was real? Answer:
nowhere. There is evidence of a substantial and devastating flood in
that part of the world in biblical or pre-biblical times and there are
folk tale variations of the "Noah saga" among other peoples. As I
stated, earlier man looked for ways to explain what he didn't
understand, and came up with supernatural folk tales...such as the one
about Noah and of course, about a super creator.

Had you taken some liberal arts courses, you might have gained an
appreciation for oral traditions and the later writing down of same.

Some parts of the old testament have contemporaneous validity in
separate historical records and common traditions and others do not.
That's the way it was, prior to Google, eh?

I'm not saying you suffer from it, but...perhaps you might want to study
up on Rigid Personality. Despite what you apparently think and believe,
everything is *not* either/or.


So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.
As for oral tradition, I am sure you have participated in that
demonstration where you tell one person in a group something and it
gets passed along through the group. By the time it gets back to you
it is totally different and sometimes exactly the opposite of what you
said.

In this case the oral tradition was nothing more than justifying the
taking of someone else's land by saying god told them they were
promised it.


BTW you were successful in changing the subject.

Tell me again how the ISIS problem was Bush's fault.
ISIS was created in Syria.

Maybe it's Clinton's fault. He did nothing bomb lots of civilians for 8
years. .??

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 1:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:12:27 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

I don't see a victory for Ali Greg in this, since all I have stated is
that I understand how and why folk tales are the rationale for much of
what is in the bible.

When you don't understand the solar system or the fact that the earth
revolves around the sun or that crops tend to sprout in the spring, it's
understandable why you'd attribute day and night and growth to an item
of worship. When your ancestors talked about a horrific flood and that
story was passed down for centuries or longer, it's not that difficult
to understand why the tale of Noah came about.

Like I said, lotta dope, not much rope.

You have gone from ducking a challenge to one of your Bush fairy tales
to trying to justify a book you consistently call a fairy tale, just
to make one of your other specious arguments sound valid.

BTW if God gave Israel to the jews, why don't the christians get a
piece?
It is the center of their religion. There are no Jesus stories that
occur anywhere else, unless you are a mormon. If the place wasn't such
a **** hole, I might want to "return"



I'm not justifying anything. I am merely trying to explain how folk
tales became "codified," as it were, into the bible. As for Jesus, I
don't believe the tales about him in the new testament are any more
valid than the noah story.

--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

In article ,
says...


Particularly when you understand the whole conversation was simply a
diversion from my question about how ISIS had anything to do with
George Bush.

I guess the invasion of Iraq didn't upset the Arab/Muslim apple cart.
But you can lay all the ills of the Israel/Arab problems at the feet of
Roosevelt/Trumsn 70 year ago.
Okay.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Particularly when you understand the whole conversation was simply a
diversion from my question about how ISIS had anything to do with
George Bush.

I guess the invasion of Iraq didn't upset the Arab/Muslim apple cart.
But you can lay all the ills of the Israel/Arab problems at the feet of
Roosevelt/Trumsn 70 year ago.
Okay.

They were also the basis for Viet Nam. Truman should not have let France
have back indochina. And DeGaul told Ike to stay out after Dien Bien Phu.
Ike did not listen.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:59:58 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:

Tell me again how the ISIS problem was Bush's fault.
ISIS was created in Syria.

Maybe it's Clinton's fault. He did nothing bomb lots of civilians for 8
years. .??

It is strange that the left does not say much about the half million
Iraqis that died during the Clinton years, mostly children.

Sure. Clinton caused 500,000 deaths, mostly children, in Iraq.
Sure. According to Baghdad Bob.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

On 10/13/14 8:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:14:01 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 1:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:12:27 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 11:46 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/13/2014 11:31 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 10/13/14 11:19 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/13/14 10:36 AM, wrote:



So you admit you are just cherry picking the parts you want and
ridiculing the rest.


D'oh. I wasn't cherry picking anything, but simply explaining how
folkloric tales, many of which were common enough among our disparate
and distant ancestors, became written down, and that there were events
that stimulated the folk tales, and were earlier man's attempts to
explain what he didn't really know. As I stated, there is evidence of a
"great flood" in biblical times, and the story of Noah came about as a
way to explain it. That doesn't mean I think the story of Noah is for
real, it just means I understand the oral tradition and folklore.

That's not a difficult concept. I'm surprised you don't get it.

You are plucking out the parts you want to believe and ridiculing the
rest, that is cherry picking.

What percentage of the ~31,000 verses do you think are historical
fact?




Whoosh. Really. This discussion obviously is just too abstract for you.



Rope-a-dope

I don't see a victory for Ali Greg in this, since all I have stated is
that I understand how and why folk tales are the rationale for much of
what is in the bible.

When you don't understand the solar system or the fact that the earth
revolves around the sun or that crops tend to sprout in the spring, it's
understandable why you'd attribute day and night and growth to an item
of worship. When your ancestors talked about a horrific flood and that
story was passed down for centuries or longer, it's not that difficult
to understand why the tale of Noah came about.

Like I said, lotta dope, not much rope.

You have gone from ducking a challenge to one of your Bush fairy tales
to trying to justify a book you consistently call a fairy tale, just
to make one of your other specious arguments sound valid.

BTW if God gave Israel to the jews, why don't the christians get a
piece?
It is the center of their religion. There are no Jesus stories that
occur anywhere else, unless you are a mormon. If the place wasn't such
a **** hole, I might want to "return"



I'm not justifying anything. I am merely trying to explain how folk
tales became "codified," as it were, into the bible. As for Jesus, I
don't believe the tales about him in the new testament are any more
valid than the noah story.

So the only valid part of the bible is the permission god gave to the
jews that they could conquer the Canaanites and take their land in
2000BC (or so) because he promised it to them.
That is a pattern repeated after WWII.



I don't recall posting anything like that. Get your imagination under
control.

--
The new GOP credo:

Hate the people who are being oppressed,
love the people who are doing the oppressing.

Grimes in Kentucky
 

wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:23:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


Particularly when you understand the whole conversation was simply a
diversion from my question about how ISIS had anything to do with
George Bush.

I guess the invasion of Iraq didn't upset the Arab/Muslim apple cart.
But you can lay all the ills of the Israel/Arab problems at the feet of
Roosevelt/Trumsn 70 year ago.
Okay.

They were also the basis for Viet Nam. Truman should not have let France
have back indochina. And DeGaul told Ike to stay out after Dien Bien Phu.
Ike did not listen.

Ike and JFK both believed this should be a covert operation in
Vietnam. It is far easier to extricate yourself from a war you are not
even admitting you are having. It was Johnson who lied to congress and
the American public (in the Gulf of Tonkin incident) to make it a
full commitment of troops. I never thought much of JFK but I do think
he was smart enough not to make it an all out war.
Even then, JFK did expand from Ike's 900 men to over 16,000 by 1963.
Five years later LBJ had over a half million there.

I think LBJ and Lady Bird looked at a very prosperous war. At least to
them and their people.