Murdering the Middle Class
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:54:36 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

It's just appalling that I don't buy into your corporationist bull****,
eh? :)


My only complaint is that you broad brush and include all corporations
in your assumptions. It's simply not true.

===

Yes, and let us not forget that corporations are the source of most
well paying jobs.

Are unions incorporated? As to a bad incorporated entity, look at Detroit.

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/23/14 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:10:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've stated any number of times that I don't believe *all* corporations
are evil in the ways I've described. Corporate interests have far too
much power over the lives or ordinary people, especially those in the
lower and middle income groups.

What's the alternative, an all powerful government that controls the
means of production?
We watched that for 74 years in Russia until it totally imploded in on
itself. During that time, the only way they could keep people in line
was with repression and death.



Is everything in life an "either/or" with you?

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/24/2014 6:23 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/23/14 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:10:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've stated any number of times that I don't believe *all* corporations
are evil in the ways I've described. Corporate interests have far too
much power over the lives or ordinary people, especially those in the
lower and middle income groups.

What's the alternative, an all powerful government that controls the
means of production?
We watched that for 74 years in Russia until it totally imploded in on
itself. During that time, the only way they could keep people in line
was with repression and death.



Is everything in life an "either/or" with you?

You're a hoot. Possibly the funniest guy here.

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/24/14 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 06:23:29 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/23/14 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:10:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've stated any number of times that I don't believe *all* corporations
are evil in the ways I've described. Corporate interests have far too
much power over the lives or ordinary people, especially those in the
lower and middle income groups.

What's the alternative, an all powerful government that controls the
means of production?
We watched that for 74 years in Russia until it totally imploded in on
itself. During that time, the only way they could keep people in line
was with repression and death.



Is everything in life an "either/or" with you?

I am only reflecting your total rejection of the principles of
capitalism and failure to understand the effect of taxes on those
institutions.
I assume it is because you have never successfully run a business and
your failures have made you bitter..



Where did I say I totally reject the principles of capitalism?
Where? Nowhere.

Capitalism has its good and its bad sides. Unfortunately, since the
1980s, we've unleashed aspects of capitalism that for the most part only
benefit the very wealthy. Please don't attempt to dispute that statement
by telling me how low your phone bill is.

Everything in life *does* seems to be "either/or" with you. Probably was
a good idea you hid out in the Coast Guard for a number of years, and
then went to work for a big corporation while it was still in its
Kafka-esque years.

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/23/2014 12:48 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/23/14 1:35 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/23/2014 12:52 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/23/14 12:36 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:28:58 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/23/14 12:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:35:03 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH7BUzAI9dI

Nailed.


Typical Maher "don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant"

Interspersed in a few dozen laugh lines he only tries to present 3
"facts":

1. Tax breaks on corporate jets only benefit the rich

Tax breaks on corporate jets is a jobs program for the people who
build, service and fly those jets. Remember what happened to the boat
industry when they tried a luxury tax? Corporations don't pay taxes
anyway, their customers do.



Yada yada yada

So you have no argument, you just babble.
You are the perfect Maher, Maddow, Olbermann fan. You just revel in
inflammatory rhetoric and ignore that it is based on lies.
How are you different than the Fox fans you denigrate?



No, I just don't buy into your view of the world that requires lower and
middle income families in this country to keep bending over so the very
rich can continue to **** them and push them back into serfdom, and
*that* is exactly what is happening in the United States.

A country in which only the superwealthy really benefit is not a country
worth defending. I read an article this morning in which Paul Ryan is
quoted describing what the Republicans will do to **** over the poor and
lower middle class if they regain control of the Senate. Why would they
do that? To put more $$$ in the pockets of the rich.

Wow. The only thing I can figure is that something or someone burned
your ass badly somewhere along in your life or career.

Yeah, I realize that empathy and compassion for the poor and ****ed over
is not a trait much in demand these days.

The 64% or more of the poor Americans have cable or satellite tv, a
DVD player, two or more TV's, a VCR, air conditioning, micro wave.
Nothing like the real poor of the world.
I know a supposedly poor family, foodstamps, unemployment check, two
cash paying jobs, they have a Cruise to the Bahamas planned. Only in
America. Cruise the local subsidized housing parking lot, they're
driving much newer cars than I have. Some even have 18 in wheels and
tires. My newest vehicle is a 2001.
I have watched several immigrant families start with nothing but a
strong work ethic and an understanding that you need to live on less
than you make. They have all done well for themselves.
I agree that these are bad times for the economy, hopefully the next
election will change things.
Mikek


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/24/14 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:25:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Probably was
a good idea you hid out in the Coast Guard for a number of years,

Only the most twisted logic would define serving your country as
"hiding out".
I guarantee that if you ever actually took your boat out of sight of
land and something went wrong, you would suddenly get religion and be
praying that there were some Coast Guard guys "hiding out" near you.

They would not care that you thought they were stupid to volunteer and
that you wanted to cut their funding. They would rescue you anyway.



Your fantasies about what you imagine I think are getting the best of
you. I don't recall ever saying that funding for the Coast Guard should
be cut or that volunteering to serve in the Coast Guard was stupid.

The "hiding out" was a reference to avoiding the draft and being shipped
to Vietnam as bullet fodder. If you were draftable, enlisting in the
Coast Guard or the Navy (but not as a pilot) for the most part kept you
out of a North Vietnamese rifleman's 10 zone.

I don't respond or even read most of the posts from the right-wingers
here. Doing so would make me feel like the jackass whisperer.

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/24/14 12:11 PM, amdx wrote:

I agree that these are bad times for the economy, hopefully the next
election will change things.
Mikek



If there's a Republican in the White House, we'll have another deep
recession and probably a few more wars. Your kind of country, eh?

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/24/14 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:35:04 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/24/14 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:25:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Probably was
a good idea you hid out in the Coast Guard for a number of years,

Only the most twisted logic would define serving your country as
"hiding out".
I guarantee that if you ever actually took your boat out of sight of
land and something went wrong, you would suddenly get religion and be
praying that there were some Coast Guard guys "hiding out" near you.

They would not care that you thought they were stupid to volunteer and
that you wanted to cut their funding. They would rescue you anyway.



Your fantasies about what you imagine I think are getting the best of
you. I don't recall ever saying that funding for the Coast Guard should
be cut or that volunteering to serve in the Coast Guard was stupid.

The "hiding out" was a reference to avoiding the draft and being shipped
to Vietnam as bullet fodder. If you were draftable, enlisting in the
Coast Guard or the Navy (but not as a pilot) for the most part kept you
out of a North Vietnamese rifleman's 10 zone.



I don't know what you have trouble understanding. There WAS NO ****ING
VIETNAM WAR when I joined. The president promised us "we are not about
to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what
Asian boys should be doing for themselves"

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

I was already out of boot camp when he trumped up the phony Gulf of
Tonkin incident and lied us into that war.
Funny that you always ignore that when you rail on about lies and
wars. He is not the only Democrat to tell that lie, just to be
elected.

FDR told the same lie in 1940..




Nothing you've just posted responded to your incorrect rave that I
called for cutting funding for the Coast Guard or that I thought
volunteering for it was stupid.

I many times have faulted presidents from Eisenhower to Nixon for our
moronic involvement in the war against Vietnam. I really thought for a
while that Nixon would shut it down sooner than he did.

Good thing you were in the Coast Guard, eh, and not being shot at...

I've been shot at three times in my lifetime...once in the 1960s in
Mississippi, once in Central America, and once south of New
Orleans...registering black voters, working for agrarian reform, and
helping oil platform supply ship workers organize. The first and last
time were scary, but the Central American incident transcended that,
since several people in our dinner meeting at the next table were shot
and killed, and two of them were close friends.

I should have joined the Coast Guard. *Lots* safer when no one is
shooting at you.

Murdering the Middle Class
 

wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:25:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/24/14 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 06:23:29 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/23/14 9:58 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:10:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



I've stated any number of times that I don't believe *all* corporations
are evil in the ways I've described. Corporate interests have far too
much power over the lives or ordinary people, especially those in the
lower and middle income groups.

What's the alternative, an all powerful government that controls the
means of production?
We watched that for 74 years in Russia until it totally imploded in on
itself. During that time, the only way they could keep people in line
was with repression and death.



Is everything in life an "either/or" with you?

I am only reflecting your total rejection of the principles of
capitalism and failure to understand the effect of taxes on those
institutions.
I assume it is because you have never successfully run a business and
your failures have made you bitter..



Where did I say I totally reject the principles of capitalism?
Where? Nowhere.

Capitalism has its good and its bad sides. Unfortunately, since the
1980s, we've unleashed aspects of capitalism that for the most part only
benefit the very wealthy. Please don't attempt to dispute that statement
by telling me how low your phone bill is.

Everything in life *does* seems to be "either/or" with you. Probably was
a good idea you hid out in the Coast Guard for a number of years, and
then went to work for a big corporation while it was still in its
Kafka-esque years.


How is the middle class being murdered?
I know you have a lot of Bernie Sanders bumper sticker lines but in
any real terms, the middle class seems to be doing fairly well. There
does not seem to be a shortage of people in homes 3 times the size of
the one I grew up in. I see new cars clogging the roads and everyone
has a phone in their pocket. Things that used to be considered luxury
items or even science fiction are now considered necessary to live a
normal life. The biggest nutrition problem in this country is people
eat too much meat. That is not a poor person problem.
If there is a danger to the middle class since the 70s, it is the fact
that so much of this is on borrowed money but that is a government
policy, not a corporate one. Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of
consumers forcing them to borrow money. This is a self inflicted
wound. The only significant thing for me about the late 70s is that I
have not borrowed a dime from anyone since then. That is how I was
able to retire at 49. My only bills are utilities and taxes, the
latter being the biggest by far.

Like the housing problem. First time home buyers, special loans. Buy a
used house? Nope, I want a McMansion to start with. Making $50K/yr and I
will buy a $759k home. Cheap interest, for 5 years. One of the drawbacks
of the housing bubble and no one buying used houses, is neighborhoods
declined lots. The new young families move in fix up the house and yard.
And build an equity and then move on to a bigger house later. Leaving a
nicer abode in their wake. Now the homes just decline, making for a
section 8 neighborhood. Maybe the middle class is not being murdered, they
are committing suicide via debt. Leaving above their means. On credit.
Bankruptcy?

Murdering the Middle Class
 

On 9/24/2014 1:04 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 9/24/14 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:35:04 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 9/24/14 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 11:25:57 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Probably was
a good idea you hid out in the Coast Guard for a number of years,

Only the most twisted logic would define serving your country as
"hiding out".
I guarantee that if you ever actually took your boat out of sight of
land and something went wrong, you would suddenly get religion and be
praying that there were some Coast Guard guys "hiding out" near you.

They would not care that you thought they were stupid to volunteer and
that you wanted to cut their funding. They would rescue you anyway.



Your fantasies about what you imagine I think are getting the best of
you. I don't recall ever saying that funding for the Coast Guard should
be cut or that volunteering to serve in the Coast Guard was stupid.

The "hiding out" was a reference to avoiding the draft and being shipped
to Vietnam as bullet fodder. If you were draftable, enlisting in the
Coast Guard or the Navy (but not as a pilot) for the most part kept you
out of a North Vietnamese rifleman's 10 zone.



I don't know what you have trouble understanding. There WAS NO ****ING
VIETNAM WAR when I joined. The president promised us "we are not about
to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what
Asian boys should be doing for themselves"

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/johnson%20vietnam%20lie.mp3

I was already out of boot camp when he trumped up the phony Gulf of
Tonkin incident and lied us into that war.
Funny that you always ignore that when you rail on about lies and
wars. He is not the only Democrat to tell that lie, just to be
elected.

FDR told the same lie in 1940..




Nothing you've just posted responded to your incorrect rave that I
called for cutting funding for the Coast Guard or that I thought
volunteering for it was stupid.

I many times have faulted presidents from Eisenhower to Nixon for our
moronic involvement in the war against Vietnam. I really thought for a
while that Nixon would shut it down sooner than he did.

Good thing you were in the Coast Guard, eh, and not being shot at...

I've been shot at three times in my lifetime...once in the 1960s in
Mississippi, once in Central America, and once south of New
Orleans...registering black voters, working for agrarian reform, and
helping oil platform supply ship workers organize. The first and last
time were scary, but the Central American incident transcended that,
since several people in our dinner meeting at the next table were shot
and killed, and two of them were close friends.

I should have joined the Coast Guard. *Lots* safer when no one is
shooting at you.



It's best that you didn't serve in the military.

Given the air of self perceived superiority that you exhibit, the
philosophies you promote and the lack of respect for those who did serve
for whatever reason, I doubt you'd even make it through boot camp ...
especially those back in the 60's.

I know for damn well sure you would never make it through the first 4
weeks of OCS. It's kinda fun to imagine you trying to argue or impose
your views on any of the instructors though.