On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:03:40 -0700, jps wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2014 10:33:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 5/29/14, 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/29/2014 8:40 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 5/28/14, 9:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


BTW .. my understanding is that the therapist called the parents. The
parents called the police asking for a wellness check. Maybe it's time
to consider a way in which mental health professionals can raise a flag
to law enforcement or permitting agencies without it being considered a
breech of patient/doctor confidentiality. I don't know.

Licensed mental health professionals in many states have a "duty to
warn" appropriate authorities when a patient presents as a serious
danger to himself or others.

Here's a rundown of the laws in various states:

http://tinyurl.com/nbsqj7w

California is a "duty to warn" state.





Then I guess my question is, "why didn't they?"

Perhaps the accounts I read of this incident where in error. My
understanding is the therapist called the *parents* (or parent, since
they are separated). The parent or parents are the ones that called the
police.



The crux of the matter is not *who* called the police. They were called,
visited the guy and concluded he was not out of his mind.

The problem is that the police are not in any way qualified to determine
if someone who is *not* acting out wildly or saying really bizarre
dangerous statements is a danger to himself or others. You have to be
diagnosed as a danger to self or others for even a 72-hour commitment in
most states.

I don't know what the "regs" are in California, but typically it takes
six years of specific college study and practicums to get a Master's in
the mental health field and then a year or two working in the field
under the supervision of licensed therapist before you can take the
state and national exams to get your own license and practice. While a
qualified and experienced therapist usually can pick up on and determine
if someone *at that moment* is a risk to self or others, why does anyone
think a policeman is so qualified, unless the subject is acting crazy?

While I agree that police are severely under-trained to carry out such
missions, the police do not look at corroborating evidence and, from
what I've been told, rely specifically on the wellness visit.

If the police would have taken the time to look at his many postings,
his threats, his videos, etc. they would have had plenty of evidence
to search the house, confiscate his weapons and host him at a facility
to further investigate his mental state.

Why in the **** is the system in place so woeful? Because we as a
society would rather have the loonies be out of sight and out of mind.

Which they were until Reagan shut down the federal mental health
facilities in order to save money. Now we've paid for it 100 times
over but in different currency.

It would be much better to have a policeman living in every household in the US.

On 6/5/2014 4:43 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:03:40 -0700, jps wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2014 10:33:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 5/29/14, 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 5/29/2014 8:40 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 5/28/14, 9:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


BTW .. my understanding is that the therapist called the parents. The
parents called the police asking for a wellness check. Maybe it's time
to consider a way in which mental health professionals can raise a flag
to law enforcement or permitting agencies without it being considered a
breech of patient/doctor confidentiality. I don't know.

Licensed mental health professionals in many states have a "duty to
warn" appropriate authorities when a patient presents as a serious
danger to himself or others.

Here's a rundown of the laws in various states:

http://tinyurl.com/nbsqj7w

California is a "duty to warn" state.





Then I guess my question is, "why didn't they?"

Perhaps the accounts I read of this incident where in error. My
understanding is the therapist called the *parents* (or parent, since
they are separated). The parent or parents are the ones that called the
police.



The crux of the matter is not *who* called the police. They were called,
visited the guy and concluded he was not out of his mind.

The problem is that the police are not in any way qualified to determine
if someone who is *not* acting out wildly or saying really bizarre
dangerous statements is a danger to himself or others. You have to be
diagnosed as a danger to self or others for even a 72-hour commitment in
most states.

I don't know what the "regs" are in California, but typically it takes
six years of specific college study and practicums to get a Master's in
the mental health field and then a year or two working in the field
under the supervision of licensed therapist before you can take the
state and national exams to get your own license and practice. While a
qualified and experienced therapist usually can pick up on and determine
if someone *at that moment* is a risk to self or others, why does anyone
think a policeman is so qualified, unless the subject is acting crazy?

While I agree that police are severely under-trained to carry out such
missions, the police do not look at corroborating evidence and, from
what I've been told, rely specifically on the wellness visit.

If the police would have taken the time to look at his many postings,
his threats, his videos, etc. they would have had plenty of evidence
to search the house, confiscate his weapons and host him at a facility
to further investigate his mental state.

Why in the **** is the system in place so woeful? Because we as a
society would rather have the loonies be out of sight and out of mind.

Which they were until Reagan shut down the federal mental health
facilities in order to save money. Now we've paid for it 100 times
over but in different currency.

It would be much better to have a policeman living in every household in the US.

Now you are thinking like a liberal.

On Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:21:31 PM UTC-4, H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 6/5/2014 4:43 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:


It would be much better to have a policeman living in every household in the US.


Now you are thinking like a liberal.

Give it time. We're headed in that direction. Big Brother is watching.

I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed- we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:09:31 AM UTC-7, BAR wrote:
In article ,

says...



I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed- we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"



I wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill for one. Five miles per gallon is

horrible mileage.

about like a semi truck....

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 22:12:19 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:09:31 AM UTC-7, BAR wrote:
In article ,

says...



I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed- we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"



I wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill for one. Five miles per gallon is

horrible mileage.

about like a semi truck....

They weigh 40,000 pounds. There are probably some little bridges in
the old parts of town (where they might be shot at) that will not
carry that on 2 axles.

If you can't tote it with a helicopter, the light fighting forces don't
want it.

I was wishing a helicopter would come by and pull my airplane out of the tree. No such luck!

On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:50:02 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 22:12:19 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:09:31 AM UTC-7, BAR wrote:
In article ,

says...



I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed- we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"



I wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill for one. Five miles per gallon is

horrible mileage.

about like a semi truck....

They weigh 40,000 pounds. There are probably some little bridges in
the old parts of town (where they might be shot at) that will not
carry that on 2 axles.

If you can't tote it with a helicopter, the light fighting forces don't
want it.

I was wishing a helicopter would come by and pull my airplane out of the tree. No such luck!

I was going to suggest that you get one of those R/C helicopters but, I
think you would just be putting so much hardware into the trees while
trying to retrieve the last thing you used to try and get the previous
thing out of the tree.

There was a guy there with a drone and camera. Look for the fuzzy white wing in the treetop at about
1:00 in the top center of the screen.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=260084290863588&set=vb.100005860565268 &type=2&theater

On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 20:02:01 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:50:02 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 22:12:19 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:09:31 AM UTC-7, BAR wrote:
In article ,

says...



I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed- we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"



I wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill for one. Five miles per gallon is

horrible mileage.

about like a semi truck....

They weigh 40,000 pounds. There are probably some little bridges in
the old parts of town (where they might be shot at) that will not
carry that on 2 axles.

If you can't tote it with a helicopter, the light fighting forces don't
want it.

I was wishing a helicopter would come by and pull my airplane out of the tree. No such luck!

I was going to suggest that you get one of those R/C helicopters but, I
think you would just be putting so much hardware into the trees while
trying to retrieve the last thing you used to try and get the previous
thing out of the tree.

There was a guy there with a drone and camera. Look for the fuzzy white wing in the treetop at about
1:00 in the top center of the screen.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=260084290863588&set=vb.100005860565268 &type=2&theater

===

So have you analyzed what went wrong?

It's really important to do that.

wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:50:02 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 22:12:19 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:09:31 AM UTC-7, BAR wrote:
In article ,

says...



I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed-
we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"



I wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill for one. Five miles per gallon is

horrible mileage.

about like a semi truck....

They weigh 40,000 pounds. There are probably some little bridges in
the old parts of town (where they might be shot at) that will not
carry that on 2 axles.

If you can't tote it with a helicopter, the light fighting forces don't
want it.

I was wishing a helicopter would come by and pull my airplane out of
the tree. No such luck!

I was going to suggest that you get one of those R/C helicopters but, I
think you would just be putting so much hardware into the trees while
trying to retrieve the last thing you used to try and get the previous
thing out of the tree.


"I know an old lady who swallowed a fly" ?

Maybe I should put Henc on this. Design a drone that can rescue a
plane from a tree and not get stuck.

In my youth, when I flew U controls, I worked in a hobby shop part time.
One guy who flew RC told of having to climb a tall eucalyptus to retrieve
his plane. Was a telephone lineman, and had his climbing gear in the car.

On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 22:15:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 20:02:01 -0400, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:50:02 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 22:12:19 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:46 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:09:31 AM UTC-7, BAR wrote:
In article ,

says...



I'd like to have a MRAP. Like Jethro Bodine said. "Hey uncle Jed- we could sure do some mighty tall huntin' and fishin' with this rig!"



I wouldn't want to pay the fuel bill for one. Five miles per gallon is

horrible mileage.

about like a semi truck....

They weigh 40,000 pounds. There are probably some little bridges in
the old parts of town (where they might be shot at) that will not
carry that on 2 axles.

If you can't tote it with a helicopter, the light fighting forces don't
want it.

I was wishing a helicopter would come by and pull my airplane out of the tree. No such luck!

I was going to suggest that you get one of those R/C helicopters but, I
think you would just be putting so much hardware into the trees while
trying to retrieve the last thing you used to try and get the previous
thing out of the tree.

There was a guy there with a drone and camera. Look for the fuzzy white wing in the treetop at about
1:00 in the top center of the screen.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=260084290863588&set=vb.100005860565268 &type=2&theater

===

So have you analyzed what went wrong?

It's really important to do that.

Yeah, while flying the airplane and doing a nice shallow bank to come in for a landing, a 45' tree
jumped out in front of the airplane! The *******s are damn fast, I tell you.

Depth perception. I thought there was more room there than existed, and in beginner mode the climb
rate is shallow. Ergo a crash landing. I'm realizing this flying is not as easy as some of those
folks make it look.