F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger before
it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward movement of the
trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun mechanism fires the
round. It's not roughness, it's distance. "Roughness" is another aspect
of trigger pull. You can have trigger creep without roughness in the
trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can actually feel in the mechanism
usually is a telltale sign of a poorly finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did not.
Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun, I'd
pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

No trigger creep, would be the proverbial "hair trigger". Not wanted, and
dangerous!

On 4/14/14, 12:16 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok, you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License (HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful, large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new, did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger before
it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward movement of the
trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun mechanism fires the
round. It's not roughness, it's distance. "Roughness" is another aspect
of trigger pull. You can have trigger creep without roughness in the
trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can actually feel in the mechanism
usually is a telltale sign of a poorly finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did not.
Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun, I'd
pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

No trigger creep, would be the proverbial "hair trigger". Not wanted, and
dangerous!


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2_8X5eg3uE

Or in the really big leagues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXJrgugePI

No trigger creep in these firearms.

In article , says...


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2_8X5eg3uE

Or in the really big leagues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEXJrgugePI

No trigger creep in these firearms.

About as exciting as a typing contest.

On 4/14/2014 6:50 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/14/14, 12:16 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/12/14, 2:53 AM, Califbill wrote:
F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 10:23 PM, Califbill wrote:
H*a*r*r*o*l*d wrote:
On 4/11/2014 4:35 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/11/14, 2:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/11/2014 11:07 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
In the past if you wanted to buy a modern firearm here, you
filled out a
couple of forms at the gunshop. If the purchase was a rifle or
shotgun,
the usual phone background check was made and if you were ok,
you took
the gun home that day. If you were buying a handgun, you had
to wait
seven to 10 business days while the state police completed an
additional
background check.

Simple enough.

Now, there's another layer.

If you are a civilian with no military background and you are
not a cop,
you have to obtain a state Handgun Qualification License
(HQL), and
there are several variables.

First time purchasers of handguns have to show proof they've
taken a
qualifying handgun training course. I think that is a good idea.

Those without an existing carry permit also have to have
submitted on
their behalf ($50) a set of electronic fingerprints taken by a
couple of
local sheriff offices or by commercial vendors.

Everyone has to get the HQL and some get a pass on the
training and
fingerprinting.

It takes the state about a week to issue the HQL.

The net effect is that the costs involved in obtaining a
handgun have
gone up and are now about $100 if you have to get
fingerprinted, and
another $25 if you have to get training, and the new processes
add about
two weeks to getting the final OK from the staties.


Still not as onerous as in Massachusetts. Requirements here
have been
for years:

1. Proof of attending NRA approved safety course.
2. Two classes of handgun permits, Class A and Class B.
Class A is for concealed carry and for all lawful,
large capacity
firearms. MA restricts what "large capacity" is
however, typically
no more than 10 rounds.

Class "B" is home defense and for transporting to
shooting ranges
and certain hunting activities. No concealed carry.

3. The issuance of a Class "A" is up to the local police
department.
You must have a good reason for a Class A, concealed
carry permit.

4. In all permit classes, the local police chief can put
restrictions
on the license, i.e. hunting only or whatever suits
his fancy.

5. Mug shots and fingerprinting mandatory. Background check
performed
by State Police. No prior court convictions other than
minor
traffic violations. It can take up to 8-9 weeks to receive an
approved
permit. Some people have waited for several months.




Well, that's a bit more than we have to go through here, but not
a lot
more, other than the time period.

I ended up ordering a Ruger revolver after trying out a few
Rugers and
S&W's on the range. Both brands are finished nicely, the way you
would
expect them to be, with the Smiths maybe a tiny bit better. Both
brands
of revolver locked up as tight as you would want.

I did notice, though, that the three S&W's I tried, one new, two
used,
had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers, again two used, one new,
did
not. Typically, I'd have to pay a gunsmith $100-$125 to tune up the
action to get rid of the trigger creep and smooth out the action.

What's trigger creep?

Probably not what he is describing. Creep is travel distance
after you get
some resistance, Slack is distance before and resistance. He is
probably
referring to creep as roughness during the resistance travel.


No, I am not.

Then, you describing the person pulling the trigger?


Slack usually is described as the rearward movement of the trigger
before
it engages the sear. Trigger creep describes the rearward movement of
the
trigger after the sear is engaged and before the gun mechanism fires the
round. It's not roughness, it's distance. "Roughness" is another aspect
of trigger pull. You can have trigger creep without roughness in the
trigger mechanisms. Roughness you can actually feel in the mechanism
usually is a telltale sign of a poorly finished gun.

The custom CZ I sold had no slack or trigger creep. The S&Ws at the
range, as I noted above, had a bit of trigger creep. The Rugers did
not.
Perhaps the S&Ws had seen a lot more use than the Rugers

A good gunsmith who knows how to use stones can usually get rid of
trigger creep. I have a Ruger Mark III target pistol that has a bit of
slack and a tiny bit of trigger creep. Were I competing with the gun,
I'd
pay a smith to take out the trigger creep.

No trigger creep, would be the proverbial "hair trigger". Not wanted, and
dangerous!


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.
What is trigger creep? Is it contagious?

On 4/14/14, 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:50:48 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

I suppose if I go look at the USPSA match results I will see your name
in there somewhere.


You're a funny guy. If I had posted a clip of a NASCAR race and
commented on an aspect of the hardware, you would assume I was a NASCAR
driver or mechanic?

I posted the USPSA clip because the clip I wanted to post I couldn't
find on Youtube.

Oh, and Israel *for sure* would have attacked Iraq if we hadn't. Right.
Of course.

On 4/14/14, 12:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:07:42 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/14/14, 11:06 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:50:48 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:


Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll
never win.

I suppose if I go look at the USPSA match results I will see your name
in there somewhere.


You're a funny guy. If I had posted a clip of a NASCAR race and
commented on an aspect of the hardware, you would assume I was a NASCAR
driver or mechanic?

You are the one who was acting like you needed a race gun quality
trigger. We assumed you must be shooting competitively somewhere.

If you were telling us about your Winston Cup ready car I would ask
where you were racing that too.


I was shooting competitively, but I stopped some time ago. I prefer
triggers with no trigger creep or almost no creep, probably because I
got used to shooting a gun without any. If my new wheelgun comes in with
any and it is bothersome, I'll have a gunsmith "tune" it out.

Found a local bait and tackle store with a very decent supply of ammo at
"mail order prices," or close to it. I was surprised. Friend who tries
to buy ammo at China-Mart says if he goes there at a certain time of
day, the sporting goods manager, if he is there, will check the "cage"
in the receiving department (assuming the shelves are bare) and fetch
ammo for him before it goes on the shelves. The stuff isn't stocked as
it comes in because first it is locked in the receiver's cage.

On Monday, April 14, 2014 12:51:20 PM UTC-4, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/14/14, 12:29 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:07:42 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:



On 4/14/14, 11:06 AM, wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 06:50:48 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:





Try shooting USPSA with semi-auto suffering from trigger creep. You'll

never win.



I suppose if I go look at the USPSA match results I will see your name

in there somewhere.





You're a funny guy. If I had posted a clip of a NASCAR race and

commented on an aspect of the hardware, you would assume I was a NASCAR

driver or mechanic?



You are the one who was acting like you needed a race gun quality

trigger. We assumed you must be shooting competitively somewhere.



If you were telling us about your Winston Cup ready car I would ask

where you were racing that too.





I was shooting competitively, but I stopped some time ago. I prefer

triggers with no trigger creep or almost no creep, probably because I

got used to shooting a gun without any. If my new wheelgun comes in with

any and it is bothersome, I'll have a gunsmith "tune" it out.



Found a local bait and tackle store with a very decent supply of ammo at

"mail order prices," or close to it. I was surprised. Friend who tries

to buy ammo at China-Mart says if he goes there at a certain time of

day, the sporting goods manager, if he is there, will check the "cage"

in the receiving department (assuming the shelves are bare) and fetch

ammo for him before it goes on the shelves. The stuff isn't stocked as

it comes in because first it is locked in the receiver's cage.

DO US ALL A FAVOUR, KRAUSE...DROP ****ING DEAD.