On Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, bmckee wrote:
I just bought a rebuilt for my 351W, same engine. I went to the new style,
that is based on the late model car type. $135 without exchange from San
Jose Generator and Starter. They said the earlier starters have a roll pin
in the front plate, sealer around the solenoid area, and a hose clamp around
the solenoid cover to make it a marine starter. The new style will turn
over a 460 CID ford all day with out effort. Unfortunately the problem was
a bad ring gear.
Bill

Bill that is right. there's noting much to making thee Autolite -designed "Positive engagement" starter from automotive to marine with the exception of the bell housing and lever cover and front band gaskets. I never did figure out why the OE put a large hose clamp around the starter to help hold down the lever cover. Seeing it's held in place with the brush cover on the earlier designs, and bolted solid to the starter housing on the later "Mod II" units.

Thee later "permanent magnet" starters made the earlier ones far obsolete though. Superior cranking performance with half battery draw as well as half the weight.

I imagine why you had the flywheel problem was because the internal switch on your earlier marine unit wasn't set correctly, causing the pinion gear (bendix) to not fully engage the flywheel before the motor started to attempt to crank the engine thus wearing away at the face of the flywheel's ring gear.

On 4/2/14, 7:32 PM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, bmckee wrote:
I just bought a rebuilt for my 351W, same engine. I went to the new style,
that is based on the late model car type. $135 without exchange from San
Jose Generator and Starter. They said the earlier starters have a roll pin
in the front plate, sealer around the solenoid area, and a hose clamp around
the solenoid cover to make it a marine starter. The new style will turn
over a 460 CID ford all day with out effort. Unfortunately the problem was
a bad ring gear.
Bill

Bill that is right. there's noting much to making thee Autolite -designed "Positive engagement" starter from automotive to marine with the exception of the bell housing and lever cover and front band gaskets. I never did figure out why the OE put a large hose clamp around the starter to help hold down the lever cover. Seeing it's held in place with the brush cover on the earlier designs, and bolted solid to the starter housing on the later "Mod II" units.

Thee later "permanent magnet" starters made the earlier ones far obsolete though. Superior cranking performance with half battery draw as well as half the weight.

I imagine why you had the flywheel problem was because the internal switch on your earlier marine unit wasn't set correctly, causing the pinion gear (bendix) to not fully engage the flywheel before the motor started to attempt to crank the engine thus wearing away at the face of the flywheel's ring gear.



A post from 1999?

On 4/2/2014 7:32 PM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, bmckee wrote:
I just bought a rebuilt for my 351W, same engine. I went to the new style,
that is based on the late model car type. $135 without exchange from San
Jose Generator and Starter. They said the earlier starters have a roll pin
in the front plate, sealer around the solenoid area, and a hose clamp around
the solenoid cover to make it a marine starter. The new style will turn
over a 460 CID ford all day with out effort. Unfortunately the problem was
a bad ring gear.
Bill

Bill that is right. there's noting much to making thee Autolite -designed "Positive engagement" starter from automotive to marine with the exception of the bell housing and lever cover and front band gaskets. I never did figure out why the OE put a large hose clamp around the starter to help hold down the lever cover. Seeing it's held in place with the brush cover on the earlier designs, and bolted solid to the starter housing on the later "Mod II" units.

Thee later "permanent magnet" starters made the earlier ones far obsolete though. Superior cranking performance with half battery draw as well as half the weight.

I imagine why you had the flywheel problem was because the internal switch on your earlier marine unit wasn't set correctly, causing the pinion gear (bendix) to not fully engage the flywheel before the motor started to attempt to crank the engine thus wearing away at the face of the flywheel's ring gear.



In other words, a premature ejection.

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 5:22:56 PM UTC-7, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/2/2014 7:32 PM, Tim wrote:

On Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, bmckee wrote:

I just bought a rebuilt for my 351W, same engine. I went to the new style,

that is based on the late model car type. $135 without exchange from San

Jose Generator and Starter. They said the earlier starters have a roll pin

in the front plate, sealer around the solenoid area, and a hose clamp around

the solenoid cover to make it a marine starter. The new style will turn

over a 460 CID ford all day with out effort. Unfortunately the problem was

a bad ring gear.

Bill



Bill that is right. there's noting much to making thee Autolite -designed "Positive engagement" starter from automotive to marine with the exception of the bell housing and lever cover and front band gaskets. I never did figure out why the OE put a large hose clamp around the starter to help hold down the lever cover. Seeing it's held in place with the brush cover on the earlier designs, and bolted solid to the starter housing on the later "Mod II" units.



Thee later "permanent magnet" starters made the earlier ones far obsolete though. Superior cranking performance with half battery draw as well as half the weight.



I imagine why you had the flywheel problem was because the internal switch on your earlier marine unit wasn't set correctly, causing the pinion gear (bendix) to not fully engage the flywheel before the motor started to attempt to crank the engine thus wearing away at the face of the flywheel's ring gear.







In other words, a premature ejection.

LOL! well....

On 4/2/14, 4:32 PM, Tim wrote:
On Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, bmckee wrote:
I just bought a rebuilt for my 351W, same engine. I went to the new style,
that is based on the late model car type. $135 without exchange from San
Jose Generator and Starter. They said the earlier starters have a roll pin
in the front plate, sealer around the solenoid area, and a hose clamp around
the solenoid cover to make it a marine starter. The new style will turn
over a 460 CID ford all day with out effort. Unfortunately the problem was
a bad ring gear.
Bill

Bill that is right. there's noting much to making thee Autolite -designed "Positive engagement" starter from automotive to marine with the exception of the bell housing and lever cover and front band gaskets. I never did figure out why the OE put a large hose clamp around the starter to help hold down the lever cover. Seeing it's held in place with the brush cover on the earlier designs, and bolted solid to the starter housing on the later "Mod II" units.

Thee later "permanent magnet" starters made the earlier ones far obsolete though. Superior cranking performance with half battery draw as well as half the weight.

I imagine why you had the flywheel problem was because the internal switch on your earlier marine unit wasn't set correctly, causing the pinion gear (bendix) to not fully engage the flywheel before the motor started to attempt to crank the engine thus wearing away at the face of the flywheel's ring gear.

Nope. Bad solenoid, which engaged the starter while running.

On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:10:06 PM UTC-7, Bill McKee wrote:
On 4/2/14, 4:32 PM, Tim wrote:

On Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, bmckee wrote:

I just bought a rebuilt for my 351W, same engine. I went to the new style,

that is based on the late model car type. $135 without exchange from San

Jose Generator and Starter. They said the earlier starters have a roll pin

in the front plate, sealer around the solenoid area, and a hose clamp around

the solenoid cover to make it a marine starter. The new style will turn

over a 460 CID ford all day with out effort. Unfortunately the problem was

a bad ring gear.

Bill



Bill that is right. there's noting much to making thee Autolite -designed "Positive engagement" starter from automotive to marine with the exception of the bell housing and lever cover and front band gaskets. I never did figure out why the OE put a large hose clamp around the starter to help hold down the lever cover. Seeing it's held in place with the brush cover on the earlier designs, and bolted solid to the starter housing on the later "Mod II" units.



Thee later "permanent magnet" starters made the earlier ones far obsolete though. Superior cranking performance with half battery draw as well as half the weight.



I imagine why you had the flywheel problem was because the internal switch on your earlier marine unit wasn't set correctly, causing the pinion gear (bendix) to not fully engage the flywheel before the motor started to attempt to crank the engine thus wearing away at the face of the flywheel's ring gear.



Nope. Bad solenoid, which engaged the starter while running.

Ok, so now the evidence came forth. When it stuck I'm surprised it didn't totally shuck the starter. It's always something to uncap the back plate and watch the feathers fly out.

On Thursday, April 3, 2014 5:38:59 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Apr 2014 15:10:06 -0700, Bill McKee

wrote:



Nope. Bad solenoid, which engaged the starter while running.



I just had some solenoid drama on my old lawn tractor. They sold me

the wrong one. The "4th" terminal wasn't the coil ground, it was the

one that jumps out the ignition resistor,. I burned up some wiring and

wondered why the thing was so hard to start. The fix was easy, pull

the ground wire off (the coil is grounded through the base)

I went ahead and took off the spade lug too so I wouldn't forget and

plug it back in,.

It's amazing how there are some many versions of the same thing. When n doubt I always go back to the old Ford SW-3

Time honored and tough...

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/500/555/555-10308.jpg

On Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:38:56 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 20:40:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim

wrote:



On Thursday, April 3, 2014 5:38:59 PM UTC-7, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Apr 2014 15:10:06 -0700, Bill McKee



wrote:







Nope. Bad solenoid, which engaged the starter while running.







I just had some solenoid drama on my old lawn tractor. They sold me



the wrong one. The "4th" terminal wasn't the coil ground, it was the



one that jumps out the ignition resistor,. I burned up some wiring and



wondered why the thing was so hard to start. The fix was easy, pull



the ground wire off (the coil is grounded through the base)



I went ahead and took off the spade lug too so I wouldn't forget and



plug it back in,.



It's amazing how there are some many versions of the same thing. When n doubt I always go back to the old Ford SW-3



Time honored and tough...



http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/500/555/555-10308.jpg



That is what I ended up with but a Craftsman lawn tractor solenoid

uses the terminal where "I" is for the ground to the solenoid coil.

(not shorting out the ballast resistor like a Ford)

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/Sear...l%20wiring.jpg



I got this at a lawn tractor parts dealer.

I was surprised.

I guess this was really for a bigger tractor with an automotive

ignition system. The counter guy pulled the wrong one.



*** boat content alert ***

The tilt trim solenoids on old Mercury outboards are like the lawn

tractor type.

I have bought them at the lawn tractor place. That is why I was

surprised.



The new Mercs use black cube relays like the new cars.

You're right about all the above, Greg. I ahve the isolated ground solenoids, but those 'el-cheapo" stock units don't last long. I will hand the sw-3 and tell them how to wire it in which is simple, or if they bring me the mower, I'll do it for them.

However, concerning the old Merc's and some old Johnson's- I've seen switches that look like the sw-3 but worked by grounding the switch side. Jut the opposite of automotive.

That makes things bit different. But that's really old school, and I hardly see anything like that anymore.