Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/14, 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:53:38 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:


2. Here's an easier one just for you. Jesus supposedly was an itinerant
teacher of the Torah and if he were, he was taught his knowledge of
Torah, the total knowledge base of things Jewish up until his time. This
would require the ability to read and write. You can hardly be a teacher
of the Torah without that ability. So, if Jesus was a teacher of the
Torah, what excuse can you offer up for his failing to leave behind even
a scrap of a scroll in his own words and writing?

I hesitate to step into this **** storm but I bet most of the people
who taught the Torah ever saw a hard copy of it or could have read it
if they did. This was more of a spoken tradition than a script that
they read.

That also explains a lot of the weird **** they came up with and why
there are so many versions of the bible.

When you have sheep herders sharing yarns around the camp fire,
stories change a little from time to time.



The "oral tradition" of learning and teaching from the Torah died out
several hundred years before the birth of Jesus because of the
persecution of the Jews, who realized that depending upon oral tradition
would result in the death of what had been passed down.

Jesus preached in what back then was the hotbed area of Jewish study and
education. Long, complicated and beautifully phrased sermons are
attributed to him. I doubt these would have been the product of an
illiterate.

Which gets me back to the original question: why would the alleged son
of god be illiterate?

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/14, 5:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



To the best of my knowledge they pretty much all believed in a god or
gods. The concept of a supreme being or beings has existed since man
evolved to think abstractly and the mystery of life remains unanswered
but continues to consume our interest.

....and waste our time and energy.

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/2014 5:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/25/14, 5:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



To the best of my knowledge they pretty much all believed in a god or
gods. The concept of a supreme being or beings has existed since man
evolved to think abstractly and the mystery of life remains unanswered
but continues to consume our interest.

...and waste our time and energy.


In favor of what?

Why do humanitarian programs exist? Are we so perfect as humans that
we naturally come to the aid of people in need? I don't think so.
That's too god-like.

We have been influenced and taught that. By nature it's survival of the
fittest. What has influenced us to think otherwise?

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/14, 5:12 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 5:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/25/14, 5:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



To the best of my knowledge they pretty much all believed in a god or
gods. The concept of a supreme being or beings has existed since man
evolved to think abstractly and the mystery of life remains unanswered
but continues to consume our interest.

...and waste our time and energy.


In favor of what?

Why do humanitarian programs exist? Are we so perfect as humans that
we naturally come to the aid of people in need? I don't think so.
That's too god-like.

We have been influenced and taught that. By nature it's survival of the
fittest. What has influenced us to think otherwise?





Democrats, of course. In this country, virtually every social welfare
program of the last century that helps people in need was first devised
and promoted by Democrats and labor unions and organizations.

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/2014 5:28 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/25/14, 5:12 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 5:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/25/14, 5:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



To the best of my knowledge they pretty much all believed in a god or
gods. The concept of a supreme being or beings has existed since man
evolved to think abstractly and the mystery of life remains unanswered
but continues to consume our interest.

...and waste our time and energy.


In favor of what?

Why do humanitarian programs exist? Are we so perfect as humans that
we naturally come to the aid of people in need? I don't think so.
That's too god-like.

We have been influenced and taught that. By nature it's survival of the
fittest. What has influenced us to think otherwise?





Democrats, of course. In this country, virtually every social welfare
program of the last century that helps people in need was first devised
and promoted by Democrats and labor unions and organizations.


Now that's funny right there.

But, in a way I guess you are right. Democrats tend to like to dictate
and control our lives in terms of what we can and cannot do. Almost
like a supreme being.

Seriously, I'd challenge your attribution. I think most social welfare
and charitable programs of the last century probably have churches at
their roots.

Jesus Saves!
 

On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:53:38 AM UTC-6, F*O*A*D wrote:


And once again you reveal your lack of liberal arts knowledge. Yes,

knowledge of religion falls under the liberal arts.



1. If Jesus were indeed the son of god, why would he need to receive a

formal education to know how to read and write? Would god create an

illiterate son?



2. Here's an easier one just for you. Jesus supposedly was an itinerant

teacher of the Torah and if he were, he was taught his knowledge of

Torah, the total knowledge base of things Jewish up until his time. This

would require the ability to read and write. You can hardly be a teacher

of the Torah without that ability.

Read??

"14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." (Luke 4)

Write?

"2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. " (John 8)


So, if Jesus was a teacher of the

Torah, what excuse can you offer up for his failing to leave behind even

a scrap of a scroll in his own words and writing?

Who said He had or needed too?

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/14, 5:47 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 5:28 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/25/14, 5:12 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/25/2014 5:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/25/14, 5:05 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



To the best of my knowledge they pretty much all believed in a god or
gods. The concept of a supreme being or beings has existed since man
evolved to think abstractly and the mystery of life remains unanswered
but continues to consume our interest.

...and waste our time and energy.


In favor of what?

Why do humanitarian programs exist? Are we so perfect as humans that
we naturally come to the aid of people in need? I don't think so.
That's too god-like.

We have been influenced and taught that. By nature it's survival of the
fittest. What has influenced us to think otherwise?





Democrats, of course. In this country, virtually every social welfare
program of the last century that helps people in need was first devised
and promoted by Democrats and labor unions and organizations.


Now that's funny right there.

But, in a way I guess you are right. Democrats tend to like to dictate
and control our lives in terms of what we can and cannot do. Almost
like a supreme being.

Seriously, I'd challenge your attribution. I think most social welfare
and charitable programs of the last century probably have churches at
their roots.



It's not a matter of dictating, it's a matter of making sure there is a
safety net for those in need, and ways for lower income Americans to do
better for themselves and their families. To name a few:

eight hour work day
end of dangerous child labor
minimum wage
social security
support for free public schools
unemployment insurance
OSHA
Access to decent health care

There are dozens of these. I am hard-pressed to think of any Republican
accomplishments in the last century or so that strengthened the social
safety net of those in lower income groups.

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/14, 6:09 PM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:53:38 AM UTC-6, F*O*A*D wrote:



So, if Jesus was a teacher of the

Torah, what excuse can you offer up for his failing to leave behind even

a scrap of a scroll in his own words and writing?

Who said He had or needed too?



I agree there is testimony that Jesus knew full well how to read and
write. Taking that literacy into account, I find it more than just a
little curious that he left nothing behind in writing.

Jesus, of course, was born a Jew, lived as a Jew, and died as a Jew.
There's nothing substantive in writing to indicate he wanted another
religion to take the place of Judaism. In fact, wasn't Jesus opposed to
proselytizing to pagans?

Jesus Saves!
 

On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:11:27 PM UTC-6, F*O*A*D wrote:


It's not a matter of dictating, it's a matter of making sure there is a

safety net for those in need, and ways for lower income Americans to do

better for themselves and their families. To name a few:



eight hour work day

Dreamed up by Robert Owen (communist) But actually implemented by Henry Ford (Republican)

end of dangerous child labor

minimum wage

social security

support for free public schools

unemployment insurance

OSHA Richard Nixon created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)


Access to decent health care



There are dozens of these. I am hard-pressed to think of any Republican

accomplishments in the last century or so that strengthened the social

safety net of those in lower income groups.

Jesus Saves!
 

On 2/25/14, 6:23 PM, Tim wrote:
On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:11:27 PM UTC-6, F*O*A*D wrote:


It's not a matter of dictating, it's a matter of making sure there is a

safety net for those in need, and ways for lower income Americans to do

better for themselves and their families. To name a few:



eight hour work day

Dreamed up by Robert Owen (communist) But actually implemented by Henry Ford (Republican)


Owen was a socialist, not a communist. He was an early advocate for a
shorter worker day.

The eight hour day came about as a national cause because of worker
strikes and other union activities in New York and Chicago and some
other cities in the 1870s and 1880s, 35 years before Henry Ford jumped
aboard that ship.