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Hank

On 2/19/2014 10:50 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:20:16 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 8:02 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:16 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:18:34 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/18/14, 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:44:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/18/14, 4:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

I think that all the media attention given to firearms in the past few
years (including the Zimmerman trial) has served to embolden some
irresponsible gun nuts who really shouldn't own one. The vast majority
of gun owners would never respond to a teenage prank by shooting at them.

Precisely. The SYG bull**** laws have convinced feeble-minded gun owners
that they can act out their aggressions and shoot people for any reason
they can conjure and then claim they felt threatened.

As I pointed out to you offline. SYG is just an invention of the media
and it does really not exist in the Florida law.
If Zimmerman and Dunn have not made this apparent to anyone,, they are
too stupid to have a gun.
Unfortunately it is still being promoted by the media for their own
reasons.

I think the discussions of what may have happened in the jury
deliberations negate your posit. When the jury members start talking,
we'll know.

If you look at the verdicts it appears that they had juror(s) with
reasonable doubt on self defense for the first shot or two but
continuing to shoot at a fleeing vehicle was a crime.
I agree if that was the case.

I do not think "retreat" was really an option since his girlfriend was
still going to be there if he left. My wife surely would not be happy
if I drove off and left her at a gas station because I was in fear of
bodily harm.

There's not an iota of evidence Dunn was in fear of bodily harm, and his
communications from jail indicate he was a mean-spirited racist.

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

Please define 'iota'. Did Dunn not say he was within seconds of being murdered by someone with a
shotgun? From the jury's perspective, is that not evidence - or at least an 'iota' thereof?

"He was lying," you say. How was the jury to know what *you* know to be the truth?

If someone says he shot a picture of two owls down by the creek, what reason is there not to believe
that statement? It's true until evidence proves otherwise.

Perhaps Dunn did get away with murder. But you don't know that.

I'm not at all interested in racist rationalizations from white guys who
if they served on a jury would never find another white guy guilty of
killing a black teenager.

From where comes that? We're talking about evidence.

Dunn murdered the kid and so far, has gotten away with it. I hope he is
tried again, and charged with 2nd degree murder and convicted.

Like I say, the jury had evidence. You have none.

If he's tried again, found guilty of 2d degree murder, and convicted, then he'll deserve whatever
additional punishment is thrown his way.

Until then, keep the owl story in mind.

Yup. The owl story is pretty good testament to Krause's honesty and
integrity.

F*O*A*D

On 2/19/14, 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:16 AM, wrote:

If you look at the verdicts it appears that they had juror(s) with
reasonable doubt on self defense for the first shot or two but
continuing to shoot at a fleeing vehicle was a crime.
I agree if that was the case.

I do not think "retreat" was really an option since his girlfriend was
still going to be there if he left. My wife surely would not be happy
if I drove off and left her at a gas station because I was in fear of
bodily harm.

There's not an iota of evidence Dunn was in fear of bodily harm, and his
communications from jail indicate he was a mean-spirited racist.

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

I doubt, when he is dying in a prison hospital a couple decades from
now, that he will think he got away with anything.

How many life terms do you think he needs to have?
He is looking at well over 60 years now and that is before they apply
three 10-20 life terms to his current convictions.

He will be in jail until Florida DOC decides they don't want to pay to
watch him die, in the world's most expensive geriatric facility, a
prison.

I think seeing him convicted of a murder charge might send a message to
at least a few of the armed-up morons who think they can shoot a kid if
he is offensive verbally or cuts through his yard to somewhere else or
teepees one of his trees.

At the moment, Dunn is unconvicted of murder. That is an embarrassment.

I read where at least nine of the jurors voted to convict him of murder.

F*O*A*D

On 2/19/14, 12:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:52:55 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:25:16 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/19/2014 5:02 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

Please define 'iota'. Did Dunn not say he was within seconds of being murdered by someone with a
shotgun? From the jury's perspective, is that not evidence - or at least an 'iota' thereof?

Do you not see any problem with a legal precedent that justifies and
excuses deadly violence simply by claiming an imagined fear?

To you and Harry, the fear was 'imagined'. To Dunn, it may have been very real. That's a decision
for the jury.

Harry only cares about black teenagers when they are shot by white
guys. Most are killed by other black teenagers and he doesn't give a
**** about them (3 so far in Ft Myers since New Years plus a white
homeless man). Where is MSNBC on that?

Another of your absurdities, Gregg. The Dunn case was of interest
because of the circumstances and the trial, and more on it is coming.

Poco Loco

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:05:15 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:52:55 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:25:16 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/19/2014 5:02 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

Please define 'iota'. Did Dunn not say he was within seconds of being murdered by someone with a
shotgun? From the jury's perspective, is that not evidence - or at least an 'iota' thereof?

Do you not see any problem with a legal precedent that justifies and
excuses deadly violence simply by claiming an imagined fear?

To you and Harry, the fear was 'imagined'. To Dunn, it may have been very real. That's a decision
for the jury.

Harry only cares about black teenagers when they are shot by white
guys. Most are killed by other black teenagers and he doesn't give a
**** about them (3 so far in Ft Myers since New Years plus a white
homeless man). Where is MSNBC on that?

No ****!

Poco Loco

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:03:25 -0500, HanK wrote:

On 2/19/2014 10:50 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:20:16 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 8:02 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:16 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:18:34 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/18/14, 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:44:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/18/14, 4:41 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

I think that all the media attention given to firearms in the past few
years (including the Zimmerman trial) has served to embolden some
irresponsible gun nuts who really shouldn't own one. The vast majority
of gun owners would never respond to a teenage prank by shooting at them.

Precisely. The SYG bull**** laws have convinced feeble-minded gun owners
that they can act out their aggressions and shoot people for any reason
they can conjure and then claim they felt threatened.

As I pointed out to you offline. SYG is just an invention of the media
and it does really not exist in the Florida law.
If Zimmerman and Dunn have not made this apparent to anyone,, they are
too stupid to have a gun.
Unfortunately it is still being promoted by the media for their own
reasons.

I think the discussions of what may have happened in the jury
deliberations negate your posit. When the jury members start talking,
we'll know.

If you look at the verdicts it appears that they had juror(s) with
reasonable doubt on self defense for the first shot or two but
continuing to shoot at a fleeing vehicle was a crime.
I agree if that was the case.

I do not think "retreat" was really an option since his girlfriend was
still going to be there if he left. My wife surely would not be happy
if I drove off and left her at a gas station because I was in fear of
bodily harm.

There's not an iota of evidence Dunn was in fear of bodily harm, and his
communications from jail indicate he was a mean-spirited racist.

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

Please define 'iota'. Did Dunn not say he was within seconds of being murdered by someone with a
shotgun? From the jury's perspective, is that not evidence - or at least an 'iota' thereof?

"He was lying," you say. How was the jury to know what *you* know to be the truth?

If someone says he shot a picture of two owls down by the creek, what reason is there not to believe
that statement? It's true until evidence proves otherwise.

Perhaps Dunn did get away with murder. But you don't know that.

I'm not at all interested in racist rationalizations from white guys who
if they served on a jury would never find another white guy guilty of
killing a black teenager.

From where comes that? We're talking about evidence.

Dunn murdered the kid and so far, has gotten away with it. I hope he is
tried again, and charged with 2nd degree murder and convicted.

Like I say, the jury had evidence. You have none.

If he's tried again, found guilty of 2d degree murder, and convicted, then he'll deserve whatever
additional punishment is thrown his way.

Until then, keep the owl story in mind.

Yup. The owl story is pretty good testament to Krause's honesty and
integrity.

I don't think Harry understands the analogy.

F*O*A*D

On 2/19/14, 12:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:08:45 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:16 AM, wrote:

If you look at the verdicts it appears that they had juror(s) with
reasonable doubt on self defense for the first shot or two but
continuing to shoot at a fleeing vehicle was a crime.
I agree if that was the case.

I do not think "retreat" was really an option since his girlfriend was
still going to be there if he left. My wife surely would not be happy
if I drove off and left her at a gas station because I was in fear of
bodily harm.

There's not an iota of evidence Dunn was in fear of bodily harm, and his
communications from jail indicate he was a mean-spirited racist.

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

I doubt, when he is dying in a prison hospital a couple decades from
now, that he will think he got away with anything.

How many life terms do you think he needs to have?
He is looking at well over 60 years now and that is before they apply
three 10-20 life terms to his current convictions.

He will be in jail until Florida DOC decides they don't want to pay to
watch him die, in the world's most expensive geriatric facility, a
prison.

I think seeing him convicted of a murder charge might send a message to
at least a few of the armed-up morons who think they can shoot a kid if
he is offensive verbally or cuts through his yard to somewhere else or
teepees one of his trees.

At the moment, Dunn is unconvicted of murder. That is an embarrassment.

I read where at least nine of the jurors voted to convict him of murder.

How many life terms would be appropriate here?

Don't you think doing 60 years for simply shooting at someone will
send a message?
I still blame Corey for the over reach. If she had just started with
murder 2 or man slaughter she may have had more luck. Making the top
count murder 1 created a situation where she had to prosecute a case
she did not have.

It's not the number of years that matter, it's the conviction of murder.
In some states, if you prosecute for Murder 1, the jury can say no to
that and convict on Murder 2. Is that an option in Florida?

F*O*A*D

On 2/19/14, 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:23:09 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:52:55 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:25:16 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/19/2014 5:02 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

Please define 'iota'. Did Dunn not say he was within seconds of being murdered by someone with a
shotgun? From the jury's perspective, is that not evidence - or at least an 'iota' thereof?

Do you not see any problem with a legal precedent that justifies and
excuses deadly violence simply by claiming an imagined fear?

To you and Harry, the fear was 'imagined'. To Dunn, it may have been very real. That's a decision
for the jury.

Harry only cares about black teenagers when they are shot by white
guys. Most are killed by other black teenagers and he doesn't give a
**** about them (3 so far in Ft Myers since New Years plus a white
homeless man). Where is MSNBC on that?

Another of your absurdities, Gregg. The Dunn case was of interest
because of the circumstances and the trial, and more on it is coming.

So you don't care about other disputes that resulted in a dead kid as
long as they are all black. OK

Why are you sliding down that slide? You're smarter than that.

Poco Loco

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:59:48 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:23:09 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:05 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:52:55 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 08:25:16 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/19/2014 5:02 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:29:53 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Whatever music the kids were listening to was no threat to his life.

Dunn got away with murder. Another white man who shot and killed a black
kid for no reason, and the crime was nullified by whites on a jury in
Florida. What a surprise.

Please define 'iota'. Did Dunn not say he was within seconds of being murdered by someone with a
shotgun? From the jury's perspective, is that not evidence - or at least an 'iota' thereof?

Do you not see any problem with a legal precedent that justifies and
excuses deadly violence simply by claiming an imagined fear?

To you and Harry, the fear was 'imagined'. To Dunn, it may have been very real. That's a decision
for the jury.

Harry only cares about black teenagers when they are shot by white
guys. Most are killed by other black teenagers and he doesn't give a
**** about them (3 so far in Ft Myers since New Years plus a white
homeless man). Where is MSNBC on that?

Another of your absurdities, Gregg. The Dunn case was of interest
because of the circumstances and the trial, and more on it is coming.

So you don't care about other disputes that resulted in a dead kid as
long as they are all black. OK

Why are you sliding down that slide? You're smarter than that.

You and jps ride the same boat. Maybe you're on a water slide? Greg made a very valid point.
Attacking him for the point is not much of a defense.

Boating All Out

In article ,
says...

I think that all the media attention given to firearms in the past few
years (including the Zimmerman trial) has served to embolden some
irresponsible gun nuts who really shouldn't own one. The vast majority
of gun owners would never respond to a teenage prank by shooting at them.

The "vast majority of gun owners" weren't in this man's predicament.
Got nothing to do with the news media.
Guns are made and sold for shooting.
No surprise here.

Mr. Luddite

On 2/19/2014 1:47 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

I think that all the media attention given to firearms in the past few
years (including the Zimmerman trial) has served to embolden some
irresponsible gun nuts who really shouldn't own one. The vast majority
of gun owners would never respond to a teenage prank by shooting at them.

The "vast majority of gun owners" weren't in this man's predicament.
Got nothing to do with the news media.
Guns are made and sold for shooting.
No surprise here.

Guns are made and sold for shooting but the decision to do so is up to
the owner. This guy made the wrong choice and it's very possible it was
influenced by media coverage of SYG laws.

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