My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:27:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

Be very careful. We don't want Don jumping on you for posting about Toyotas. That's not something
he'd ever do.

On 2/17/14, 9:48 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:27:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

Be very careful. We don't want Don jumping on you for posting about Toyotas. That's not something
he'd ever do.



There you go again, trying your best to start up arguments. Why would
Don get upset with me for making a comment about a Toyota mini-van,
John? Besides, I like the vehicle. Perhaps it is time for you to find
yet another new hobby at which you cannot excel...

On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 06:17:43 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/17/14, 9:48 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:27:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

Be very careful. We don't want Don jumping on you for posting about Toyotas. That's not something
he'd ever do.



There you go again, trying your best to start up arguments. Why would
Don get upset with me for making a comment about a Toyota mini-van,
John? Besides, I like the vehicle. Perhaps it is time for you to find
yet another new hobby at which you cannot excel...

For the same reason he gets upset with me if I mention an airplane? Or a gun? I don't know why he
does that, but he seems to take some delight in it. I find it strange that he says nothing to you
when you talk about ott-topic subjects.

Both my daughters drive mini-vans. One has the Honda, the other the Toyota. I've driven both and was
impressed with the comfort and handling of something that holds that many people. The mileage is not
that good, but either could tow a small boat.

The trick to driving a vehicle which has no, or only a small, hood, is to focus way out and not at
the road right in front of the vehicle. I learned that driving one of these in the 60's:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Econoline.jpg

On 2/18/14, 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 06:17:43 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/17/14, 9:48 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:27:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

Be very careful. We don't want Don jumping on you for posting about Toyotas. That's not something
he'd ever do.



There you go again, trying your best to start up arguments. Why would
Don get upset with me for making a comment about a Toyota mini-van,
John? Besides, I like the vehicle. Perhaps it is time for you to find
yet another new hobby at which you cannot excel...

For the same reason he gets upset with me if I mention an airplane? Or a gun? I don't know why he
does that, but he seems to take some delight in it. I find it strange that he says nothing to you
when you talk about ott-topic subjects.

Both my daughters drive mini-vans. One has the Honda, the other the Toyota. I've driven both and was
impressed with the comfort and handling of something that holds that many people. The mileage is not
that good, but either could tow a small boat.

The trick to driving a vehicle which has no, or only a small, hood, is to focus way out and not at
the road right in front of the vehicle. I learned that driving one of these in the 60's:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Econoline.jpg



As I mentioned, the driving experience was fine, but I thought that
parallel parking the van would be more difficult because I couldn't
actually see the front of the car, as represented by the end of the hood
or the fenders.

On Monday, February 17, 2014 9:27:50 PM UTC-5, F*O*A*D wrote:
My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance,


You mean the one that sits in your GARAGE, while YOU sit in your ****ing basement, troll ?

On 17-Feb-2014, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

Good information, and it helps employment in Japan!

On 2/18/14, 1:50 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:27:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

I have driven a fairly large assortment of vans, mini vans, SUVs and
crossovers. You get used to them pretty quickly. We always reserve
some kind of crossover/small SUV on vacation but we did end up with a
Windstar in Alaska, a Jeep in California and a Suburban in the
Dakotas.
The worst "parking" vehicle I ever had was "Moby Dick" my big white
E-150 with the stretch box on the back. It is what you see carpet
companies using because you can get a 12' roll of carpet in the back
and close the door. There was about 5' of metal behind the rear wheels
and no windows.
Every E or F 150 I have owned (4 total) got 13MPG, going fast, going
slow, empty or towing my boat ... 13.

I was surprised the Suburban got 20-22 ... until I tried a tank of
E-85. That was more like 17-18.


The Sienna has an electronic MPG indicator. I zeroed it out and at 55,
only got 21 mpg and change. I do like the backup camera on the mini-van,
but the inability to see the front of the car would take getting use
to...and it would take me a long time.

F*O*A*D wrote:
On 2/18/14, 1:50 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:27:50 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

My daily driver is at the dealer's for some maintenance, and I was
"loaned" a new Toyota Sienna, an eight passenger mini-van. I've never
even been in a mini-van before, much less driven one.

I was pleasantly surprised. It's not a sports car, of course, but it
handles decently as a passenger car, and it is very roomy and comfy
inside. I loved the automatically opening and closing side doors.
Amazing legroom for those who sit in the middle seats.

The only odd thing for me was not being able to see the front
fenders of
the vehicle or, in fact, anything beyond the windshield. Parallel
parking the mini-van would be difficult for me without being able to
see
the front of it.

Gas mileage is pretty poor...only about 21 mpg at speed limit speeds -
55 mph - on the state roads around here.

I have driven a fairly large assortment of vans, mini vans, SUVs and
crossovers. You get used to them pretty quickly. We always reserve
some kind of crossover/small SUV on vacation but we did end up with a
Windstar in Alaska, a Jeep in California and a Suburban in the
Dakotas.
The worst "parking" vehicle I ever had was "Moby Dick" my big white
E-150 with the stretch box on the back. It is what you see carpet
companies using because you can get a 12' roll of carpet in the back
and close the door. There was about 5' of metal behind the rear wheels
and no windows.
Every E or F 150 I have owned (4 total) got 13MPG, going fast, going
slow, empty or towing my boat ... 13.

I was surprised the Suburban got 20-22 ... until I tried a tank of
E-85. That was more like 17-18.


The Sienna has an electronic MPG indicator. I zeroed it out and at 55,
only got 21 mpg and change. I do like the backup camera on the
mini-van, but the inability to see the front of the car would take
getting use to...and it would take me a long time.

Time you don't have. Thanks for the insightful post!