On 2/19/14, 11:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:44:05 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 10:28 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:32:13 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 2:40 AM, thumper wrote:
On 2/17/2014 8:07 PM, Tim wrote:

Oh, I know the earth is much older than that. But is mankind?

Yes

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/apr/29/fossils.evolution3

Carbon 14 *IS* the accepted science for research, but its not
infallible...

Science doesn't claim to be infallible or perfectly accurate but rather
is self correcting and tends get better with time and effort.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/31/us...on-dating.html


1990...

C14 dating has well known limitations and constraints for appropriate
application and *is not* the only accepted method of dating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-carbon_dating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-c14.html

It is an unfortunately common (and dishonest) creationist tactic to take
relatively small scientific controversies or corrections and equivocate
to infer that the whole field is unreliable.

As one of my mentors once said "All simulations (models) are wrong, some
are useful."

The god of the gaps is shrinking slowly.



There's nothing but dishonesty in creationism. It's one thing to be
self-delusional and believe that sort of nonsense, and it is quite
another and dishonest to try to push it onto public school kids as some
sort of "alternative."

It's similar to TV shows in which half the characters are GLBT. It's dishonest to try to push that
onto public school kids as some kind of 'norm'.



Being "gay" is a reality for many, including public school kids. It's
important their school buds realize that being gay is real. Creationism
is delusional religious nonsense.

You sure seem overly sensitive to "gay" issues, John. Are you one of
those still in the closet gay conservatives who protests gays too much?

I recall one junior high/high school buddy who was sexually
ambidextrous, way back in the dark ages when I was a lad. He was a great
guy and no one gave him any **** for it. I guess he's lucky he didn't go
to your high school.

So he was born both ways?

I have no idea. He dated a couple of the gay guys in high school and he
dated "straight" girls. He made no effort to hide his bisexuality.




I am sensitive to having gaydom shoved down my throat, and that of kids. What if I were a 'closet
gay conservative'? You use that term as a put down, yet act as though gaydom is the norm. It's not.
The GLBT community represents only about 3% or our population. It is not the norm.

Those who believe in a Creator, on the other hand, represent about 74% of our population. Yet you
decry students being taught that such a belief exists.

I'm sure the little jibes you and Don make about me possibly being gay do something for you. But as
I have nothing against gays themselves, they really just emphasize your anti-gay beliefs.


I'm not sure "shoved down" your throat is really the way you wanted to
put it, eh?

All I see are gays who want the same rights and privileges afforded to
the rest of society in pertinent areas. Some gays are flamboyant, no
doubt about it. But so far, no gays have come to my front door to
attempt conversions.

I don't decry students learning that many people believe in a creator. I
simply don't want *any* sort of religious teaching or belief
impositioning taking place in the public schools. As I posted earlier, I
have no problem with neutral, non-advocacy teaching about religions in a
comparative way, as in "Jews believe this, Catholics believe this,
Muslims believe this, Buddhists believe this, and this is how those
beliefs came about and evolved."

As for your hypersensitivity about gays, it kind of reminds me of other
people on your side of the political fence who were loudly opposed to
gays, gay rights, gays coming out, gays being public about being gay,
and then we found out *they* were gay.

John, I've known gay people for most of my life. Not one has put the
moves on me. I doubt they'd be sexually interested in you, either.

That being said, if I were single, I'd wouldn't mind dating Ellen
DeGeneres. I love funny women.

On 2/19/14, 11:43 AM, thumper wrote:
On 2/17/2014 8:07 PM, Tim wrote:

When science *CAN* prove there *IS NOT* a Divine Creator- I'll believe
that science.

I don't want to pick on you but it's a good example.

The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim, not those
who doubt the claim due to lack of evidence.

If I claim there is an invisible pink unicorn in my garage that directs
the universe and farts rainbows I hope you wouldn't just believe it.


Wait, I bought my unicorn on eBay and was told it was the only one. I
took that on faith, too.

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:51:35 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 11:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:44:05 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



Being "gay" is a reality for many, including public school kids. It's
important their school buds realize that being gay is real. Creationism
is delusional religious nonsense.

You sure seem overly sensitive to "gay" issues, John. Are you one of
those still in the closet gay conservatives who protests gays too much?

I recall one junior high/high school buddy who was sexually
ambidextrous, way back in the dark ages when I was a lad. He was a great
guy and no one gave him any **** for it. I guess he's lucky he didn't go
to your high school.



So he was born both ways?

I have no idea. I do recall he was a lot more "artsy-craftsy" than most
of us in our junior high days, and that by the time we all managed to
get to high school, he was out of the closet as




I am sensitive to having gaydom shoved down my throat, and that of kids. What if I were a 'closet
gay conservative'? You use that term as a put down, yet act as though gaydom is the norm. It's not.
The GLBT community represents only about 3% or our population. It is not the norm.

Those who believe in a Creator, on the other hand, represent about 74% of our population. Yet you
decry students being taught that such a belief exists.

I'm sure the little jibes you and Don make about me possibly being gay do something for you. But as
I have nothing against gays themselves, they really just emphasize your anti-gay beliefs.


I assume the rest of the post was too spot on for your 'arguments'.

On 2/19/14, 12:12 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:51:35 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 11:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:44:05 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



Being "gay" is a reality for many, including public school kids. It's
important their school buds realize that being gay is real. Creationism
is delusional religious nonsense.

You sure seem overly sensitive to "gay" issues, John. Are you one of
those still in the closet gay conservatives who protests gays too much?

I recall one junior high/high school buddy who was sexually
ambidextrous, way back in the dark ages when I was a lad. He was a great
guy and no one gave him any **** for it. I guess he's lucky he didn't go
to your high school.



So he was born both ways?

I have no idea. I do recall he was a lot more "artsy-craftsy" than most
of us in our junior high days, and that by the time we all managed to
get to high school, he was out of the closet as




I am sensitive to having gaydom shoved down my throat, and that of kids. What if I were a 'closet
gay conservative'? You use that term as a put down, yet act as though gaydom is the norm. It's not.
The GLBT community represents only about 3% or our population. It is not the norm.

Those who believe in a Creator, on the other hand, represent about 74% of our population. Yet you
decry students being taught that such a belief exists.

I'm sure the little jibes you and Don make about me possibly being gay do something for you. But as
I have nothing against gays themselves, they really just emphasize your anti-gay beliefs.


I assume the rest of the post was too spot on for your 'arguments'.


No, I thought it was not worth a comment.

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:05:20 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 11:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:44:05 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 10:28 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:32:13 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 2:40 AM, thumper wrote:
On 2/17/2014 8:07 PM, Tim wrote:

Oh, I know the earth is much older than that. But is mankind?

Yes

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/apr/29/fossils.evolution3

Carbon 14 *IS* the accepted science for research, but its not
infallible...

Science doesn't claim to be infallible or perfectly accurate but rather
is self correcting and tends get better with time and effort.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/31/us...on-dating.html


1990...

C14 dating has well known limitations and constraints for appropriate
application and *is not* the only accepted method of dating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-carbon_dating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-c14.html

It is an unfortunately common (and dishonest) creationist tactic to take
relatively small scientific controversies or corrections and equivocate
to infer that the whole field is unreliable.

As one of my mentors once said "All simulations (models) are wrong, some
are useful."

The god of the gaps is shrinking slowly.



There's nothing but dishonesty in creationism. It's one thing to be
self-delusional and believe that sort of nonsense, and it is quite
another and dishonest to try to push it onto public school kids as some
sort of "alternative."

It's similar to TV shows in which half the characters are GLBT. It's dishonest to try to push that
onto public school kids as some kind of 'norm'.



Being "gay" is a reality for many, including public school kids. It's
important their school buds realize that being gay is real. Creationism
is delusional religious nonsense.

You sure seem overly sensitive to "gay" issues, John. Are you one of
those still in the closet gay conservatives who protests gays too much?

I recall one junior high/high school buddy who was sexually
ambidextrous, way back in the dark ages when I was a lad. He was a great
guy and no one gave him any **** for it. I guess he's lucky he didn't go
to your high school.

So he was born both ways?

I have no idea. He dated a couple of the gay guys in high school and he
dated "straight" girls. He made no effort to hide his bisexuality.




I am sensitive to having gaydom shoved down my throat, and that of kids. What if I were a 'closet
gay conservative'? You use that term as a put down, yet act as though gaydom is the norm. It's not.
The GLBT community represents only about 3% or our population. It is not the norm.

Those who believe in a Creator, on the other hand, represent about 74% of our population. Yet you
decry students being taught that such a belief exists.

I'm sure the little jibes you and Don make about me possibly being gay do something for you. But as
I have nothing against gays themselves, they really just emphasize your anti-gay beliefs.


My goodness, you *did* address the rest of the post.


I'm not sure "shoved down" your throat is really the way you wanted to
put it, eh?

I put gaydom being 'shoved down my throat' the same way you say religion is 'shoved down your
throat'. Besides, isn't gay oral sex the norm? Why do you make a big deal of it?


All I see are gays who want the same rights and privileges afforded to
the rest of society in pertinent areas. Some gays are flamboyant, no
doubt about it. But so far, no gays have come to my front door to
attempt conversions.

Not necessary. In this country we use gays to make political statements.

I don't decry students learning that many people believe in a creator. I
simply don't want *any* sort of religious teaching or belief
impositioning taking place in the public schools. As I posted earlier, I
have no problem with neutral, non-advocacy teaching about religions in a
comparative way, as in "Jews believe this, Catholics believe this,
Muslims believe this, Buddhists believe this, and this is how those
beliefs came about and evolved."

No one here is suggesting that students should be taught to believe in a religious concept.


As for your hypersensitivity about gays, it kind of reminds me of other
people on your side of the political fence who were loudly opposed to
gays, gay rights, gays coming out, gays being public about being gay,
and then we found out *they* were gay.

Hypersensitivity? You are much more 'hypersensitive' to the idea of religion than I am about gays.
And, gaydom is pushed on TV much, much more than religion - unless you tune into the preachers.


John, I've known gay people for most of my life. Not one has put the
moves on me. I doubt they'd be sexually interested in you, either.

Harry, I've known gay people for most of my life. Have two nieces who are gay. Had a gay guy renting
a room in our house when I was in high school - a great friend until he died of AIDS many years ago.
None have ever put moves on me. One guy tried in the Bahamas. He shouldn't have touched my arm. He
probably knew a good dentist stateside.

That being said, if I were single, I'd wouldn't mind dating Ellen
DeGeneres. I love funny women.

Me either. She's a boon to all mankind. Doing her part to control population and decrease the
world's carbon footprint. Is she 'married'? If so, she should get the 'Same Sex Union Tax Credit'.

On 2/19/2014 11:43 AM, thumper wrote:
On 2/17/2014 8:07 PM, Tim wrote:

When science *CAN* prove there *IS NOT* a Divine Creator- I'll believe
that science.

I don't want to pick on you but it's a good example.

The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim, not those
who doubt the claim due to lack of evidence.

If I claim there is an invisible pink unicorn in my garage that directs
the universe and farts rainbows I hope you wouldn't just believe it.



Of course not. That's ridiculous. Everyone knows that pink unicorns
fart in monochrome.

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 12:21:45 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 12:12 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 11:51:35 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 2/19/14, 11:09 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:44:05 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:



Being "gay" is a reality for many, including public school kids. It's
important their school buds realize that being gay is real. Creationism
is delusional religious nonsense.

You sure seem overly sensitive to "gay" issues, John. Are you one of
those still in the closet gay conservatives who protests gays too much?

I recall one junior high/high school buddy who was sexually
ambidextrous, way back in the dark ages when I was a lad. He was a great
guy and no one gave him any **** for it. I guess he's lucky he didn't go
to your high school.



So he was born both ways?

I have no idea. I do recall he was a lot more "artsy-craftsy" than most
of us in our junior high days, and that by the time we all managed to
get to high school, he was out of the closet as




I am sensitive to having gaydom shoved down my throat, and that of kids. What if I were a 'closet
gay conservative'? You use that term as a put down, yet act as though gaydom is the norm. It's not.
The GLBT community represents only about 3% or our population. It is not the norm.

Those who believe in a Creator, on the other hand, represent about 74% of our population. Yet you
decry students being taught that such a belief exists.

I'm sure the little jibes you and Don make about me possibly being gay do something for you. But as
I have nothing against gays themselves, they really just emphasize your anti-gay beliefs.


I assume the rest of the post was too spot on for your 'arguments'.


No, I thought it was not worth a comment.

Did you reach that conclusion before or after your long comment?

On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:43:47 AM UTC-6, thumper wrote:
On 2/17/2014 8:07 PM, Tim wrote:



When science *CAN* prove there *IS NOT* a Divine Creator- I'll believe that science.

Me too!





I don't want to pick on you but it's a good example.



The burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim, not those

who doubt the claim due to lack of evidence.



If I claim there is an invisible pink unicorn in my garage that directs

the universe and farts rainbows I hope you wouldn't just believe it.
|
Well, I won't doubt that there may be one in there, but I'm not curious enough to check it out...

On 2/19/2014 2:20 PM, Tim wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:43:47 AM UTC-6, thumper wrote:

If I claim there is an invisible pink unicorn in my garage that directs
the universe and farts rainbows I hope you wouldn't just believe it.

Well, I won't doubt that there may be one in there, but I'm not curious enough to check it out...

Yikes...! :-O