On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/








Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html


No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn. You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.

On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/








Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html


No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn. You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway

On 2/12/14, 10:02 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D.
wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/









Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating
content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html



No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make
it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around
the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every
day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the
division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn.
You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's
turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway
If the bike is leaning, you are not going straight. Unless you turn the
front wheel. Leaning the bike, changes angles. Think like trying to
make a cone roll in a straight line. leaning the bike, inplies a cone
shape.

On 2/12/2014 1:09 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
On 2/12/14, 10:02 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H.
wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D.
wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/










Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating
content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html




No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make
it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around
the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you
can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every
day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the
division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that
time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn.
You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's
turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway
If the bike is leaning, you are not going straight. Unless you turn the
front wheel. Leaning the bike, changes angles. Think like trying to
make a cone roll in a straight line. leaning the bike, inplies a cone
shape.

Yup, and rolling a cone with a small end on the left will turn left..
even for a while if one side loses "some" traction.. At some point
however if you lose too much traction on one side the cone would roll
right or have to be "counter steered".. At that point, forward force
degrades... I gotta' find that video...

On 2/12/14, 10:31 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 1:09 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
On 2/12/14, 10:02 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H.
wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D.
wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/











Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but
this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating
content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html





No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make
it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the
motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't
ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around
the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you
can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can
skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much
sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every
day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the
division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that
time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going
forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn.
You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's
turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway
If the bike is leaning, you are not going straight. Unless you turn the
front wheel. Leaning the bike, changes angles. Think like trying to
make a cone roll in a straight line. leaning the bike, inplies a cone
shape.

Yup, and rolling a cone with a small end on the left will turn left..
even for a while if one side loses "some" traction.. At some point
however if you lose too much traction on one side the cone would roll
right or have to be "counter steered".. At that point, forward force
degrades... I gotta' find that video...
It will never 'roll right'. It may slide, but it will not roll.

On 2/12/2014 4:50 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
On 2/12/14, 10:31 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 1:09 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
On 2/12/14, 10:02 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H.
wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D.
wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/












Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but
this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating
content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html






No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make
it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the
motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push
left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't
ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around
the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is
way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you
can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can
skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much
sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every
day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the
division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing
slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that
time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going
forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told
you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it
three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a
WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn.
You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's
turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway
If the bike is leaning, you are not going straight. Unless you turn the
front wheel. Leaning the bike, changes angles. Think like trying to
make a cone roll in a straight line. leaning the bike, inplies a cone
shape.

Yup, and rolling a cone with a small end on the left will turn left..
even for a while if one side loses "some" traction.. At some point
however if you lose too much traction on one side the cone would roll
right or have to be "counter steered".. At that point, forward force
degrades... I gotta' find that video...
It will never 'roll right'. It may slide, but it will not roll.

Exactly, the only way to get it to "counter steer" is to scrub off or
what you call slide, off energy..

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:02:13 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/








Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html


No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn. You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway

It is! When you push the left bar, the wheel cocks slightly right, then the bike leans because of
the geometry of the front end.

On 2/12/2014 2:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:02:13 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/








Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html


No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn. You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway

It is! When you push the left bar, the wheel cocks slightly right, then the bike leans because of
the geometry of the front end.

And if you are turning left, you are losing forward thrust... In a car
we call it "Drifting" and for a tiny track it might be faster as it's
the only way to make the corner. But as long as you can make the corner
with the front wheel turned toward the radius, you have the potential to
go faster if you have the nuts Or what we in the womens mx call,
"Chesticles"...

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:08:21 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 2:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:02:13 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:38 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:22 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 12:03 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 11:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:48 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:20 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:33:01 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 10:06 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/12/2014 9:42 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:06:41 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
__ says...

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/9/2014 6:25 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 15:03:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:

On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:30:04 PM UTC-6, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:31:40 -0800 (PST), Tim

wrote:



On Sunday, February 9, 2014 7:31:31 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I'd love to have one of these...







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mTwM7afQA





how about something like this?



http://thekneeslider.com/1937-front-...cle-prototype/








Looks like something Moto Guzzi made during the war.

"Goose" probably tries something like that too, but this is
French,
and the French at that time were known to be great
tinkerers, with
results to match.

Yeah, I should have said it looks like something Guzzi
*could* have
made during the war. Something
like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOlS_ShXf4



Here's an idea for Scott: (warning - contains boating content)

http://www.elrellano.com/videos_online/8146/barca-a-motor.html


No steering unless that rowboat has a bow thruster.

Just like a motor cycle, you just lean into the turn to make it go
that way.

No, leaning doesn't make it turn. Leaning enables the motorcycle
to be
kept more vertical when
turning. Pushing on the handlebar makes you turn. Push left, go
left.
Push right, go right.
Countersteering.


Heh. I just mentioned to Scott about that. Those who don't ride
will
think it's weird. They think it should turn like a car.



Yes, counter steering but again, it's not the fastest way around the
corner

It's the only way around the corner, at speed, on a motorcycle.


No it's not.... if you are countersteering, your drive wheel is way
outside the most efficient line and needs to come back before you can
get traction and get out of the corner...

You countersteer to get the bike to lean, once leaned you can skid on
around. But, you first have to
get the turn started.


Trust me, .01 seconds coming in and going out...Way too much sideways,
not enough forward.... Look, I put the stopwatch to this **** every day,
I trained my daughter to corner "as good as any body in the division"...
But I am not gonna' argue any more with it.

Let me take it one step further... I get what you are saying Dick but
that's old school... we now "get the turn started" by drawing slightly
on the front brake and using throttle (not brakes) to break away the
back end. Now I can "get into the corner" without spending all that time
(.003 seconds??) wobbling back and fourth instead of going forward... I
know it seems like a tiny thing, but again, the secret I just told you
is "very new school" and Jess was one of the first to embrace it three
years ago..... It works, period. I saw her corner circles around a WMA
pro a few weeks back... Jaws dropped for sure...

Fine. You're dirt riding and sliding, without leaning for the turn. You're not really 'steering'
through the turn but sliding through the turn. However, if she's turning left and she leans the bike
to the left, she did it by countersteering.


Ok, guess we won't see eye to eye. I think of counter steering as
turning left, with the bars slightly right.... Either way, here's
another thing to take into consideration... "New School" is to steer
with the back end, not the front end anyway

It is! When you push the left bar, the wheel cocks slightly right, then the bike leans because of
the geometry of the front end.

And if you are turning left, you are losing forward thrust... In a car
we call it "Drifting" and for a tiny track it might be faster as it's
the only way to make the corner. But as long as you can make the corner
with the front wheel turned toward the radius, you have the potential to
go faster if you have the nuts Or what we in the womens mx call,
"Chesticles"...

OK. Turn the bars to the right to go right. Insurance paid up?