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COLREGS - The final word on pecking order in restricted visibility.
Comments interspersed:
Simple Simon wrote: Extremely thick fog is mostly a myth. Yes, it occurs on occassion but the general run of the mill fog is not so thick that vessels can collide without ever seeing one another. Wrong and immaterial to the discussion. The discussion is how vessels react and there responsibility when they can see each other, and when they can not see each other. At any rate, the worst case scenario of pea soup thick fog is but one case of restricted visibility and the majority of the other cases definitely allow in-sight situations in or near an area of restricted visibility. In sight situations are ruled by the in sight rules which specify give-way and stand-on status for vessels in sight of one another. Jeff, Otnmbrd, Shen44 and Rick have up till now maintained there is NEVER a stand-on vessel in or near an area of restricted visibility while I have maintained there IS a stand-on and give-way vessel in or near an area of restricted visibility. Absolutely wrong. What you seem unable to comprehend is that when vessels can not see each other due to some form of restricted visibility, that there is no stand-on/priveleged status ..... both vessels must navigate with extreme caution. IF .... while in fog or some other form of restricted visibility, the two vessels should come in sight of each other (yes, they may well still be in restricted visibility) then, and only then, do give-way, stand-on conditions apply, unless, of course, they are so close, that BOTH vessels must maneuver to avoid collision. The very simple governing phrases you seem unable to comprehend and apply to the terms "fog" and "restricted visibility", are "in sight of" and "not in sight of". I'm right and they're wrong - that's the bottom line. nope I maintain that my sailboat even in a thick fog is going at a safe speed by virtue of the fact that the hull speed is less than seven knots max. Many fogs have little or no wind so I may well be going even slower. Even if the winds are brisk in a fog and I'm going hull speed I'm still going at a safe speed. In effect, I'm standing on and I'm doing it completely legally. Wrong again. Safe speed must be adapted to the prevailing circumstances. If you are doing seven knots and can barely see your bow or just beyond, you will never maneuver in time if something should appear. Sorry, rules for speed apply to sail also. If I hear the fog signal of a motor vessel I know right away if and when we come in sight of each other I am the stand-on vessel and the motor vessel is the give way vessel unless I'm overtaking the motor vessel or we are so close that both vessel's must maneuver to avoid collision. (I'll ignore TSS or narrow channels) What do you do if you are hearing the fog signal of what turns out to be a 6000 hp Z-drive tug pushing a 150' deck barge (i.e. a vessel blowing the same signal you are) which is not likely at all considering they all think safe speed is 10-15 knots instead of the usual 20-30 knots - let's face the facts here for once. immaterial Therefore, I keep going at my safe speed of five or six knots and try to determine by the sound signal if there's a danger of collision. If I determine there is a danger of collision I change course - Potentially unsafe practices (Notice, it's perfectly OK for Neal to keep sailing at 5-6 k, but not a motor vessel) I'm certainly not going to take all sails down and come to a stop and become a sitting duck to be run over and sunk by a ship not keeping an adequate lookout and going too fast for the conditions. This would be causing a collision and not avoiding a collision - a violation of the RULES. Garbage and shows limited sailing skills.. Rules tell you to take all way off if necessary. Yet this what the arrogant tugboat captains are saying the Rules require me to do. WRONG! When a motor vessel hears the fog signal of a sailboat or any other boat above it in the pecking order it knows before even coming in sight of that vessel that the motor vessel is the give way vessel in a close quarters situation and a close quarters situation in most cases of restricted visibility in an in sight situation. More garbage. There is no pecking order of any kind, in fog, when two vessels cannot see each other, no matter what the different signals may be. There is, also, no way for a motor vessel to tell if it is dealing with a sailboat, by whistle signals alone. Here again we can see Neals problem grasping the terms "in sight" and "not in sight" and relating (or separating them, if you will) with the terms "fog" and/or "restricted visibility". This is what I call the abbreviated pecking order. That there is an abbreviated pecking order proves there is a give-way and stand-on vessel in restricted visibility. Again, the problem relating to terminology .... and ....no pecking order.... and again you've proved nothing. If and when the motor vessel and sailing vessels come within sight of one another the motor vessel already knows it is the give-way vessel in all but the overtaking situation. (we're not talking narrow channels, traffic schemes, etc, here - we're talking at sea.) This means the give-way/stand-on status exists in or near an area of restricted visibility. .........ONLY if the vessels can see each other (you're still ignoring rule 17(b) and how it would affect stand-on status). So, how's the license renewal coming, Neal? Sure hope they don't make you take a "Rules" test (open book or otherwise)BG otn |