In article
,
says...


He got the hint and suggested that maybe it would be better if I did
it since I had designed the system.

Sure sounds like the project manager was the only idiot
in that scenario.

This thread has gone as expected.
A former electrical inspector (Greg) got paid by the
government to nag Joe Blow about an extra inch of wire in
a wall switch box.
It was all good. Put money in Greg's pocket, and the
"public" was kept safe. Very good.
Times and circumstances have changed.
Greg isn't a government paid inspector now.
He's Joe Blow.

Now the former nagging inspector wants Joe Blow to be
empowered to tie his personal solar power producing
system into the public electrical grid - with no
oversight at all. Says it's just a plug in a wall.
The former code-nagger says Joe Blow is really another
Thomas Edison, and should be allowed to freely "innovate"
on the public electrical grid, for the advancement of
civilization. Solar power is just "plugs." That's all.
Add some misrepresention of "plug-n-play" solar power,
and misrepresention of solar tax credit policy.
Add some disparagement of "higher" education.
What do you get from the denizens of rec.boat?
Anti-union rants.
Yep, it's insane, but there it is.

The icing on the cake is that Florida is a "right to
work" state.
No need for unionized tradesmen to get a job done.
So really, what's going on here is simple rank hypocrisy.

Greg wants to be Mr DIY to save bucks for himself.
To hell with codes he formerly got paid to enforce, to
hell with licensing, to hell with safety.
Just slap them solar puppies on the roof, and tie the
power to the public grid. Hell, it's just plugs and some
wires, right?
We don't need no damn worries about hurricanes blowing
solar panels all over the place, or power company linemen
getting zapped, or my handiwork bringing down power for
miles around.
Oh yes, one other thing.
I want the government to pay me too, like they paid me
for my clunker.
That pretty much covers it.
Carry on.

In article ,
says...


If you want to hire put everything you do, go for it. I prefer doing
things myself.
And I am pretty good at it.

You and every other Joe Blow. That's what most say.
Any unsafe Rube Goldberg setup will do the trick.

"Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors
will do everything they can to stop DIY installers.
The government is on their side, denying any rebates to
an unlicensed installs."

What was that all about? A mite paranoid, eh?
According to you, you just pull the permits and DIY.
Plug that **** in, simple as that.
Then just do it, and quit whining.
But AFAIC, cheap-ass DIY solar plugged into the public
grid is all greenie and Wall Street marketing hype.
After all, you're turning your home into a power plant.
You won't get away with not following all code and
licensing requirements that apply.
You got a beef, take it up with the state of Florida and
your local regulators.

You sound like Al Gore here.
Sane people will wait until the technology gets to where
professional, licensed and insured installation offers
the right payback. Already does in some areas.
You just go ahead and shape your world how you like.
Nobody's stopping you.

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking
over all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them,
and checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of
copper plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My
recollection is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an
hour. The gas inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the
plumbing in its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

In article 93368714396889728.895218bmckeenospam-
, says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is bull****. I'd like to see specifically what shoddy workmanship
he's talking about. Florida's building code is very comprehensive and
quite stringent.

On 7/30/13 11:12 AM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.



So your son in law will have a nice job.

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street, the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law (like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?

In article ,
says...


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law. What part of that is
too hard for you to comprehend?

No, you talking about "law" that doesn't exist is too
damn stupid to comment much more on.
Quit conflating fed and state laws too. That ****
doesn't work with me. I'm talking federal.
Why are you still talking about a state rebate law when
that rebate well is dry?


Can you trick the IRS into allowing the credit? Probably, but if you
get audited, you will lose.

Bull****. You just don't know what you're talking about.
Just keep your receipts, and make sure you don't use a
junk manufacturer that won't provide a manufacturer's tax
credit certificate. Keep that too.
If you're honest you won't lose an audit.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Credits-Available-for-
Certain-Energy-Efficient-Home-Improvements
This stuff is years old already.
If you're having issues with DIY, blame it on Florida.

The state rebate, when there was one, had to be applied for by the
contractor and you got the check. Unfortunately these programs went
broke and there are thousands of people waiting for millions of
dollars worth of checks ... that are not coming.

Take that up with your state. If you don't like it
there, you've got the option to move.