A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 1:10 AM, wrote:
On 31 Jul 2013 00:52:25 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

That stays true until a town like CB sets up it's own building
department and makes up it's own rules.

That can be anything from strange local amendments to the simple
problem of which version of the code they are on. There is a new
version every 3 years but various building departments adopt them on
their own schedule.
Something that is legal here may be against code across the street if
it is a different jurisdiction on a different version of the code,
even before they amend it


Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/2013 6:49 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 7/31/13 1:10 AM, wrote:
On 31 Jul 2013 00:52:25 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

That stays true until a town like CB sets up it's own building
department and makes up it's own rules.

That can be anything from strange local amendments to the simple
problem of which version of the code they are on. There is a new
version every 3 years but various building departments adopt them on
their own schedule.
Something that is legal here may be against code across the street if
it is a different jurisdiction on a different version of the code,
even before they amend it


Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

How far is that mom and pop greasy chicken joint you are so fond of.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

In article ,
says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH
LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic
engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no
manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders, et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor sweepers like Scotty.

What the ****! Plugging in a standard wall plug, even a liberal arts major
can handle that. This is not wiring in junction boxes, this is a standard
house plug that is being plugged in to a receptacle that is already there
via a union electrician. Does the next union electrician need to be there
to check the first ones work?

If the unions had it their way we would all be calling them every time someone wanted to plug
in a hair dryer, toaster or iPhone charger due to the highly technical nature of pushhing a
plug into a socket.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/2013 6:49 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

You already have a 7-11 store 2.72 miles away as the crow flies.How
convenient.
What more could you want? My guess is that you'd like a full time fire dept.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/2013 8:31 AM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH
LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic
engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no
manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders, et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor sweepers like Scotty.

What the ****! Plugging in a standard wall plug, even a liberal arts major
can handle that. This is not wiring in junction boxes, this is a standard
house plug that is being plugged in to a receptacle that is already there
via a union electrician. Does the next union electrician need to be there
to check the first ones work?

If the unions had it their way we would all be calling them every time someone wanted to plug
in a hair dryer, toaster or iPhone charger due to the highly technical nature of pushhing a
plug into a socket.


Where were the union plug inserters when I needed them. Back in the day
when I was servicing electric adding machines, I was in an older
building on a call and discovered that the patients umbilical cord was
unplugged. When I plugged it in and the electrical marvel still didn't
work, I went for the fuse. Turns out it was a DC outlet which looked
exactly like an AC outlet.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 10:40 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:49:49 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:10 AM, wrote:
On 31 Jul 2013 00:52:25 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

That stays true until a town like CB sets up it's own building
department and makes up it's own rules.

That can be anything from strange local amendments to the simple
problem of which version of the code they are on. There is a new
version every 3 years but various building departments adopt them on
their own schedule.
Something that is legal here may be against code across the street if
it is a different jurisdiction on a different version of the code,
even before they amend it


Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

That is what the motivation generally is, that and the false hope of
generating revenue.
I am surprised that beach town has not really grown any over the last
40 years but I guess it is not a place where people want to move to.
You usually see this kingdom building in places with growth.
The little town south of me is a good example. It has seen a 10x
growth in the last 30 years and they have set up their own building
department. They can't alter the building code but they can choke
growth by fees, procedural means and zoning.


Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 4:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:50:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/





Heheh. Our HOA fees are $200 a year, which covers the cost of cutting
the lawns in the common areas and the electric bill (and bulbs!) for the
lights on the brick entrance sign.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

In article ,
says...

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

That should keep the undesirables out of your neighborhood.........

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:50:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/

How can you stop growth if the U.S. population is growing so fast?

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 4:51 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

That should keep the undesirables out of your neighborhood.........



What, the long drive to a regional shopping mall? I hope the drive keeps
growth down here. I'm not opposed to a reasonable amount of development
and growth, but where it isn't controlled, you end up with places like
Fairfax County, Virginia, where it takes 20 minutes to drive to a
grocery store you can almost see from your front yard.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

Harry, does the WalMart five miles away from you in Prince Frederick not count as a WalMart? Isn't
there also one in Dunkirk, just up the road a ways?

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:48:20 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 4:34 PM, wrote:

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/





Heheh. Our HOA fees are $200 a year, which covers the cost of cutting
the lawns in the common areas and the electric bill (and bulbs!) for the
lights on the brick entrance sign.

Yep, same here ($205) but that also includes a boat ramp and the
shelter in the park.



Ours used to include a nasty letter from the HOA if you parked your boat
in your driveway for more than a few days, but then so many households
here got trailerboats, the HOA gave up on that one.

We have a first class boat ramp just a few miles from here. Well, more
than one, actually.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/2013 4:48 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 7/31/13 4:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:50:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/





Heheh. Our HOA fees are $200 a year, which covers the cost of cutting
the lawns in the common areas and the electric bill (and bulbs!) for the
lights on the brick entrance sign.

Are you talking your little street or the entire Barakat developent. You
guys should get together and press for a real fire department. It could
boost your property value $100K. Correction,,, her property value.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 5:11 PM, John H wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

Harry, does the WalMart five miles away from you in Prince Frederick not count as a WalMart? Isn't
there also one in Dunkirk, just up the road a ways?

John (Gun Nut) H.


Wow. You're back, and making an appearance on my new laptop, but fear
not, as soon as I set up the filters, back into the flajim septic tank
you go.

Let's try this in really simple language.

I didn't say we didn't have a Wal-Mart, I said Wal-Mart wanted to build
something much larger. Yes, we have a Wal-Mart a few miles south of
here, in Prince Frederick. It has been there for many years. Wal-Mart
wanted to raze or expand that store from a "regular-sized" operation to
build a "super-sized" or whatever they call it Wal-Mart. The corporation
spent a lot of money trying to convince everyone around here that that
was what we needed. They even had people set up at tables around the
county getting signatures. They mailed out newsletters, they took out
newspaper and radio ads, and much more. But, we, meaning the residents
of this part of the county, and the county commissioners, said "No."

There is a newer Wal-Mart up in Dunkirk, which is about 11 miles north
of here on Route 4. I don't know if that is a "regular" or "super-sized"
Wal-Mart, since I have only seen it from a distance. We don't shop at
that particular shopping center, since there is nothing in there of
interest to us. There's a Giant supermarket and a few more stores,
nothing different from what we have in our immediate location.

Since you are a frequenter of Solomons, have you gone over the river and
"discovered" there are a few new restaurants as you head towards the
naval air station? The Cracker Barrel there is very nice if you like
decent southern comfort food at a very reasonable price. If you are in
the area on a Friday or Saturday and turn right on the main drag once
you cross the bridge and drive and drive, you'll end up at the Amish
Farmers Market. Your grandchildren might enjoy that, it is a treat
visually and of course, the produce and baked goods are high quality.

And now, I'll turn the podium back over to the rec.boats regular insulters.

Have a nice day.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On 7/31/13 5:23 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:51:52 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/

How can you stop growth if the U.S. population is growing so fast?

Especially when they all want to move here ... in spite of Harry
warning them how bad it sucks here.
.


I found a lot to like in NE Florida, in terms of weather, the beaches,
boating, fishing, et cetera. I didn't like the overly religious,
close-minded nature of the area, and the ultra-conservative politics.

I like SE Florida, the cosmopolitan Cuban and Carib influence and
people, and the Keys, but I find the heat and humidity there
intolerable in the late spring and most of the summer. We'll be back
there for a couple of weeks, probably in February or March, when the
warmth is most appreciated by us near-Yankees.

I liked Tallahassee. I've only been in your part of Florida a couple of
times and for whatever reasons, I felt as if I were, atmospherically, at
least, in a swamp. But I liked the shoreline.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 17:39:32 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I've only been in your part of Florida a couple of
times and for whatever reasons, I felt as if I were, atmospherically, at
least, in a swamp. But I liked the shoreline.

==

The boating and fishing here are arguably the best in all of Florida
except possibly the Keys, and the beaches are unequaled anywhere. Your
application for visitation privileges was unfortunately turned down
however, something about poor character as I recall.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.

Those fees can be huge. In my city, the fees for a new home are now around
$120,000! Thirty five years ago, my house cost $135,000 and was one of the
larger homes in the area.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 93368714396889728.895218bmckeenospam-
, says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is bull****. I'd like to see specifically what shoddy workmanship
he's talking about. Florida's building code is very comprehensive and
quite stringent.

My son in law makes sure they follow the building codes. And the codes he
enforces are a lot tougher than Florida's. they are for building
hospitals.

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 17:33:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 5:11 PM, John H wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

Harry, does the WalMart five miles away from you in Prince Frederick not count as a WalMart? Isn't
there also one in Dunkirk, just up the road a ways?

John (Gun Nut) H.


Wow. You're back, and making an appearance on my new laptop, but fear
not, as soon as I set up the filters, back into the flajim septic tank
you go.

Let's try this in really simple language.

I didn't say we didn't have a Wal-Mart, I said Wal-Mart wanted to build
something much larger. Yes, we have a Wal-Mart a few miles south of
here, in Prince Frederick. It has been there for many years. Wal-Mart
wanted to raze or expand that store from a "regular-sized" operation to
build a "super-sized" or whatever they call it Wal-Mart. The corporation
spent a lot of money trying to convince everyone around here that that
was what we needed. They even had people set up at tables around the
county getting signatures. They mailed out newsletters, they took out
newspaper and radio ads, and much more. But, we, meaning the residents
of this part of the county, and the county commissioners, said "No."

There is a newer Wal-Mart up in Dunkirk, which is about 11 miles north
of here on Route 4. I don't know if that is a "regular" or "super-sized"
Wal-Mart, since I have only seen it from a distance. We don't shop at
that particular shopping center, since there is nothing in there of
interest to us. There's a Giant supermarket and a few more stores,
nothing different from what we have in our immediate location.

Since you are a frequenter of Solomons, have you gone over the river and
"discovered" there are a few new restaurants as you head towards the
naval air station? The Cracker Barrel there is very nice if you like
decent southern comfort food at a very reasonable price. If you are in
the area on a Friday or Saturday and turn right on the main drag once
you cross the bridge and drive and drive, you'll end up at the Amish
Farmers Market. Your grandchildren might enjoy that, it is a treat
visually and of course, the produce and baked goods are high quality.

And now, I'll turn the podium back over to the rec.boats regular insulters.

Have a nice day.


When your filters make a mistake, you needn't be at all verbose. Just fix them.

When we go to Solomon's, it's not to eat out. We normally cook all our meals and eat as a family.
I'm very familiar with Cracker Barrels. We have two within a relatively short drive. The one in
Fredericksburg makes a nice 'halfway point' to meet the kids and grandkids.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:57:54 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 4:51 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

That should keep the undesirables out of your neighborhood.........



What, the long drive to a regional shopping mall? I hope the drive keeps
growth down here. I'm not opposed to a reasonable amount of development
and growth, but where it isn't controlled, you end up with places like
Fairfax County, Virginia, where it takes 20 minutes to drive to a
grocery store you can almost see from your front yard.


I walk. It's good for you. You should give it a shot.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

A sure sign that solar power is becoming practical...
 

In article , says...

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:51:52 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/

How can you stop growth if the U.S. population is growing so fast?

Especially when they all want to move here ... in spite of Harry
warning them how bad it sucks here.
.

I think Harry didn't like how fast the local governments turned on tax cheats and deadbeats.
He had to move to a state where his kind were looked upon as assets rather than liabilities.