On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say,
how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his
meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear
witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating
the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think
that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple,
easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he
sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead,
the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports.
If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after
Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on
top of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented
so far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a
one to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and
can be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of
the jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.

On 6/27/13 7:39 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize
his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on top
of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented so
far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a one
to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and can
be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of the
jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.




I think Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it. He has an
interesting arrest record as a thug, and apparently he was either
carrying his piece or went back to the truck to get it, then chased the
kid down and maybe the kid said, "**** you," so hot-headed Zimmerman
shot him.

Luckily for Zimmerman, I'm not on the jury, eh?

I'm more interested in stand your ground laws outside the house being
****canned than I am in the specific outcome of this case. It's bad law,
reminiscent of the tales about the Old West.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...


I think Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it. He has an
interesting arrest record as a thug, and apparently he was either
carrying his piece or went back to the truck to get it, then chased
the
kid down and maybe the kid said, "**** you," so hot-headed Zimmerman
shot him.

Luckily for Zimmerman, I'm not on the jury, eh?

I'm more interested in stand your ground laws outside the house being
****canned than I am in the specific outcome of this case. It's bad
law,
reminiscent of the tales about the Old West.

-----------------------------------------

I don't think you necessarily need to have a "stand your ground"
statute on the books. Self defense is self defense. The only part
of stand your ground that is unique is the lack of a requirement to
retreat if subject to a assault or likelyhood of an assault. If you
consider the Zimmerman case, even with the "stand your ground"
statute, he's still on trial for 2nd degree murder. I would expect
that in any state, with or without a "stand your ground" law you
would be subject to prosecution in a case involving deadly force and
found innocent if it was determined to be self defense. In many
situations that I've read about no charges were even filed against
someone who used deadly force in a situation that was obviously and
blatantly self defense. What ****es me off sometimes though is that
the families of the perp often file a wrongful death civil suit and
win. If it was self defense, it was self defense.

"Eisboch" wrote:
"Hank©" wrote in message eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on top
of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented so
far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a one
to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and can
be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the whole
thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a feeling
the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think the "Stand
your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of the
jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.
The state has to convince everyone on the jury that Zimmerman is guilty
beyond a doubt! Going to be hard with Martins record of thuggery. If even
if they do not think it was a stand your ground case, they may figure Z was
defending himself.

On 6/27/13 8:21 PM, Califbill wrote:

The state has to convince everyone on the jury that Zimmerman is guilty
beyond a doubt! Going to be hard with Martins record of thuggery. If even
if they do not think it was a stand your ground case, they may figure Z was
defending himself.



Martin doesn't have a record of "thuggery." He has no police record
whatsoever. Zimmerman, on the other hand, has arrests for violence.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:21:10 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

The state has to convince everyone on the jury that Zimmerman is guilty
beyond a doubt! Going to be hard with Martins record of thuggery. If even
if they do not think it was a stand your ground case, they may figure Z was
defending himself.

None of Martin's past has been presented in court but if they try to
say anything about Zimmerman, it all comes in, along with anything
else O'Mara's detectives have found out about him and his
"girlfriend".
There is something strange going on there.

As strange as the fact that there was none of Zimmerman's DNA on the
hands that you claim beat Zimmerman?

On 6/27/2013 7:39 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize
his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on top
of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented so
far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a one
to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and can
be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of the
jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.


You could say Martin triggered the incident by being a suspicious person
causing Zimm to make legitimate inquiries. beyond that, details are
hearsay and speculation. The lawyers persuasive skills will determine
the outcome on this one. I don't see any damning evidence.

In article ,
says...

"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say,
how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his
meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear
witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating
the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think
that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple,
easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he
sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead,
the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports.
If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after
Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on
top of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented
so far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a
one to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and
can be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of
the jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.

All of this said, with all of the "forensic evidence" not a trace of
Zimmerman's DNA on the hands of Martin, who the FOX sheeple have
convicted of bashing Zimmerman's head in. Now beyond that, so what if
Zimmerman got his ass handed to him when he accosted Martin?

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:39:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of
the jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.


If the jury makes a legal mistake, it sets up an appeal.
That may be he O'mara plan from the beginning. As long as Zimmerman is
getting money from the web, O'mara is going to be there to take it.

If Zimmerman is SO innocent as you and FOX presume, why would that be
O'mara's course of action?