"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 3:59 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:42:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D."
wrote:

On 6/27/13 11:29 AM, wrote:

None of this is necessary, of course, if you come across a kid on
the
street carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. Just shoot him.
Make
sure you are in Florida, of course.

You keep leaving out the "punch in the nose" and "beat your head on
the concrete" part


There are no witnesses to testify that Martin inflicted those alleged
injuries.

---------------------------------------------------

The injuries are not alleged. Zimmerman's claim that they were
inflicted by Martin is what is alleged.
The police arrived, Zimmerman confessed to shooting Martin and, as I
understand it, the injuries to Zimmerman were fresh at the time.

I don't think you need a witness to make a case of self defense.
That said though, if Zimmerman instigated the altercation by pursuing
Martin and challenging or harassing him in any way, then I suspect
his "stand your ground" defense will go out the window and he'll be
found guilty.
Just my guess.

wrote in message ...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

---------------------------------

Not if it is determined that Zimmerman initiated the altercation in
the first place. If so, his "stand your ground" defense pops.

On 6/27/13 6:23 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 3:59 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:42:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 6/27/13 11:29 AM, wrote:

None of this is necessary, of course, if you come across a kid on the
street carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. Just shoot him. Make
sure you are in Florida, of course.

You keep leaving out the "punch in the nose" and "beat your head on
the concrete" part


There are no witnesses to testify that Martin inflicted those alleged
injuries.

---------------------------------------------------

The injuries are not alleged. Zimmerman's claim that they were
inflicted by Martin is what is alleged.
The police arrived, Zimmerman confessed to shooting Martin and, as I
understand it, the injuries to Zimmerman were fresh at the time.

I don't think you need a witness to make a case of self defense. That
said though, if Zimmerman instigated the altercation by pursuing Martin
and challenging or harassing him in any way, then I suspect his "stand
your ground" defense will go out the window and he'll be found guilty.
Just my guess.





The witnesses so far seem to indicate that Zimmerman started the
altercation, that the screaming seemed to be coming from Martin, that
Zimmerman was on top of Martin after the gunshot, et cetera.

I have a feeling Zimmerman is going to have to take the stand. That
should be interesting.

On 6/27/2013 5:27 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 11:42:10 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 6/27/13 11:29 AM, wrote:

None of this is necessary, of course, if you come across a kid on the
street carrying a soft drink and a bag of candy. Just shoot him. Make
sure you are in Florida, of course.

You keep leaving out the "punch in the nose" and "beat your head on
the concrete" part

Yeah, and the best part about that, absolutely NO Zimmerman DNA on the
kids hands.....

---------------------------------------------------

Assuming the reports of injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head are
accurate, how did he get them?


Ask loogie to cite his last comment. I wonder what he hit that scuffed
his hands up.

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
news


The witnesses so far seem to indicate that Zimmerman started the
altercation, that the screaming seemed to be coming from Martin, that
Zimmerman was on top of Martin after the gunshot, et cetera.


-------------------------------------------

There's one piece of forensic evidence and also witness testimony
regarding the color of the shirts or jackets that were worn that may
convince the jury that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. The forensic
evidence was introduced by the defense the first day of the trial and
indicates that there was about an inch to two inches of space between
Martin's shirt and where Zimmerman's bullet entered his body. It was
determined by powder residue and burns.

If Zimmerman was on top of Martin, it's unlikely any space would exist
between Martin's shirt and his chest. However, if Martin was on top,
leaning forward, the space would exist.

I'll bet the defense focuses on that in their summation.

On 6/27/13 7:26 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
news


The witnesses so far seem to indicate that Zimmerman started the
altercation, that the screaming seemed to be coming from Martin, that
Zimmerman was on top of Martin after the gunshot, et cetera.


-------------------------------------------

There's one piece of forensic evidence and also witness testimony
regarding the color of the shirts or jackets that were worn that may
convince the jury that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. The forensic
evidence was introduced by the defense the first day of the trial and
indicates that there was about an inch to two inches of space between
Martin's shirt and where Zimmerman's bullet entered his body. It was
determined by powder residue and burns.

If Zimmerman was on top of Martin, it's unlikely any space would exist
between Martin's shirt and his chest. However, if Martin was on top,
leaning forward, the space would exist.

I'll bet the defense focuses on that in their summation.




I'll bet the jury doesn't give a **** about that and probably won't
understand it, either. There are many ways the two shirts could be up
close and personal to each other, or separated by an inch. However the
jury decides, that ain't gonna be a critical factor.

I have a growing feeling that Zimmerman is going to take the stand. Hope
so. The Florida stand your ground law is a piece of **** and perhaps a
conviction will sink it.

"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say,
how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his
meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear
witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating
the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think
that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple,
easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he
sanitize his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead,
the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports.
If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after
Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on
top of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented
so far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a
one to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and
can be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of
the jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:32:15 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The Florida stand your ground law is a piece of ****

===

[Not]

The right to defend yourself is self evident.

On 6/27/13 7:39 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Hank©" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 6/27/2013 5:29 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 6/27/13 5:25 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 6/27/13 4:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:03:11 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:



Do you suppose that Zimmerman wasn't counseled on what to say, how to
act, etc?

Zimmerman has not said a word and I doubt he will although his meek
and soft voice might go a long way toward dismissing the ear witness
testimony about who was screaming for help. O'Mara has the police
tapes for that tho.
I think he was crying like a little girl when Martin was beating the
**** out of him but that just backs up the self defense claim.

I didn't ask whether he said anything (yet). I asked do you think that
Zimmerman wasn't counseled one what to say, how to act, etc.? You
are SO
positive that Martin beat Zimmerman, but what about the simple, easy
fact that there was NO DNA of Zimmerman's on Martin? Did he sanitize
his
hands before gasping his last breath?


If Zimmerman were Black and alive, and Martin were white and dead, the
Fox-ites would claim Zimmerman's wounds were self-inflicted.

-------------------------------------------

I didn't follow the early reports of this event closely. Didn't
Zimmerman have some bloody head wounds immediately following the
altercation?
Seems like I remember seeing or hearing about that in news reports. If
so, how did he get them?



Beats me. No witnesses. Maybe he was with a buddy who, after Zimmerman
shot the kid, bashed him about the head so it would look like self
defense, eh?

If you don't think it was self defense, let's hear your version of the
story.

--------------------------------------------

I think Harry is already convinced that Zimmerman is guilty, was on top
of Martin, Martin was screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him.

But I think otherwise, based on the little bit of evidence presented so
far. Important to me was the forensic report that said there was a one
to two inch space between Martin's shirt and the entry point of
Zimmerman's round in his chest. Forensic evidence is damn good and can
be replicated in a lab.
It just doesn't compute if Martin was on his back on the ground with
Zimmerman on top of him. It makes all kinds of sense if they were
positioned the other way around.

However, if it is proven to the jury that Zimmerman instigated the
whole thing by following and/or harassing Martin in any way, I have a
feeling the jury will find him guilty and rightly so. I don't think
the "Stand your ground" statute should apply to a situation that he
instigated and caused to happen.
The legal beagles will say otherwise, stating that it's not a crime to
follow anyone or ask them what they are doing. But the members of the
jury are not lawyers. They will apply their common sense.




I think Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it. He has an
interesting arrest record as a thug, and apparently he was either
carrying his piece or went back to the truck to get it, then chased the
kid down and maybe the kid said, "**** you," so hot-headed Zimmerman
shot him.

Luckily for Zimmerman, I'm not on the jury, eh?

I'm more interested in stand your ground laws outside the house being
****canned than I am in the specific outcome of this case. It's bad law,
reminiscent of the tales about the Old West.