On 6/5/13 8:58 PM, Wayne B wrote:

Back to fishing. It has become painfully clear (literally), that I
am not equipped properly, and/or not experienced enough, to boat a
really big fish. We've had our chances but something always breaks
before I can get the fish under control. The last demonstration of
this ineptitude was several days ago. I was trolling one rod, a
heavy duty model with low friction carbon fiber guides. The reel was
a mid-sized Penn-Senator salt water reel spooled up with several
hundred yards of hi tech Spectra braid rated at something like 200
pounds of breaking strength. The "Wahoo Magnet" lure was rigged with
a heavy duty braided wire leader and double hook.

We were trolling the north side of Little Inagua Island in the late
afternoon, just off shore in about 900 feet of water. The fish
struck really hard and screamed off about 100 yards of line in no time
at all while I was throttling back and shifting to neutral. I got to
the rod seconds later and started tightening the star drag as firmly
as I could get it. The fish paused for a few seconds and I briefly
thought that I had a chance of turning him, but almost immediately it
started spooling more line off the screaming reel. You could
literally smell the drag clutch burning and the reel was almost too
hot to touch. I made one more attempt to tighten the drag when
something broke inside the reel and it started free spooling. Within
seconds the remaining line was gone, and the rod which had been bent
at a 90 degree angle, snapped back and clipped me just above the eyes,
leaving a nasty little cut on my forehead. I never even had a look at
the darned fish but it was obviously big and powerful. Unfortunately
it is yet another fish story about the one that got away.

At any rate I need some advice on equipment and technique. What kind
of reel is appropriate for a big, powerful fish? What kind of drag
tension is needed/appropriate with 200# line? How much line do I need
on the reel? What is the right strategy? Are there any good internet
forums for this kind of information? Etc, etc.


I don't recall the specifics, since it is been many years since I owned
a Penn Senator, but I don't recall any of them rated for line with much
more than 100# breaking strength.

For starters, you were using line beyond the abilities of your reel.

Second, Spectra doesn't stretch, so all the tension is on your rod and
reel. Easy to snap the line or break your rod.

Third, just what would you do if you hooked a really large fish, say
something 200 pounds or more? If it were an edible fish, you'd have a
very difficult time getting it aboard your boat, and, if it were a
predatory fish with big teeth and it were flapping around on your deck,
there's no telling what might happen to you or your wife.

Fourth, if the fish were not really edible, are you going to lean over
as far as it would take to remove the hook from the fish's mouth? You
know how dangerous that could be.

Fifth, it doesn't take 200# line to catch a really large fish. I've
caught 100# to 250# pelagics on 20#-30# test line on a Shimano TLD.

Sixth, if you want to go after the big ones, get yourself a large
capacity lever drag reel and suitable rod, but you are going to end up
paying $500 or more for a new reel, and those are prices from my
memories of years ago. Maybe you need a two speed reel. Even so, 200#
line is way over the top.

Seventh, find out who is the best sportfishing captain for pelagics on
one of those islands you frequent, and charter out for the day with one
who is willing to teach you the tricks of the trade.

On Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:55:01 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 6/5/13 8:58 PM, Wayne B wrote:

Back to fishing. It has become painfully clear (literally), that I
am not equipped properly, and/or not experienced enough, to boat a
really big fish. We've had our chances but something always breaks
before I can get the fish under control. The last demonstration of
this ineptitude was several days ago. I was trolling one rod, a
heavy duty model with low friction carbon fiber guides. The reel was
a mid-sized Penn-Senator salt water reel spooled up with several
hundred yards of hi tech Spectra braid rated at something like 200
pounds of breaking strength. The "Wahoo Magnet" lure was rigged with
a heavy duty braided wire leader and double hook.

We were trolling the north side of Little Inagua Island in the late
afternoon, just off shore in about 900 feet of water. The fish
struck really hard and screamed off about 100 yards of line in no time
at all while I was throttling back and shifting to neutral. I got to
the rod seconds later and started tightening the star drag as firmly
as I could get it. The fish paused for a few seconds and I briefly
thought that I had a chance of turning him, but almost immediately it
started spooling more line off the screaming reel. You could
literally smell the drag clutch burning and the reel was almost too
hot to touch. I made one more attempt to tighten the drag when
something broke inside the reel and it started free spooling. Within
seconds the remaining line was gone, and the rod which had been bent
at a 90 degree angle, snapped back and clipped me just above the eyes,
leaving a nasty little cut on my forehead. I never even had a look at
the darned fish but it was obviously big and powerful. Unfortunately
it is yet another fish story about the one that got away.

At any rate I need some advice on equipment and technique. What kind
of reel is appropriate for a big, powerful fish? What kind of drag
tension is needed/appropriate with 200# line? How much line do I need
on the reel? What is the right strategy? Are there any good internet
forums for this kind of information? Etc, etc.


I don't recall the specifics, since it is been many years since I owned
a Penn Senator, but I don't recall any of them rated for line with much
more than 100# breaking strength.

For starters, you were using line beyond the abilities of your reel.

Second, Spectra doesn't stretch, so all the tension is on your rod and
reel. Easy to snap the line or break your rod.

Third, just what would you do if you hooked a really large fish, say
something 200 pounds or more? If it were an edible fish, you'd have a
very difficult time getting it aboard your boat, and, if it were a
predatory fish with big teeth and it were flapping around on your deck,
there's no telling what might happen to you or your wife.

Fourth, if the fish were not really edible, are you going to lean over
as far as it would take to remove the hook from the fish's mouth? You
know how dangerous that could be.

Fifth, it doesn't take 200# line to catch a really large fish. I've
caught 100# to 250# pelagics on 20#-30# test line on a Shimano TLD.

Sixth, if you want to go after the big ones, get yourself a large
capacity lever drag reel and suitable rod, but you are going to end up
paying $500 or more for a new reel, and those are prices from my
memories of years ago. Maybe you need a two speed reel. Even so, 200#
line is way over the top.

Seventh, find out who is the best sportfishing captain for pelagics on
one of those islands you frequent, and charter out for the day with one
who is willing to teach you the tricks of the trade.

=======

Mostly good observations and advice there Harry, but we're on our way
home now with little or no time to stop and smell the roses, buy new
reels, find a charter captain, etc.

Why? Because I've always wanted to catch a really big fish - sort of
a bucket list kind of thing. Since we're out in "big fish" country
anyway, why not try to catch one?

If we caught a nice, big edible fish, I could probably tail rope it
and get it onboard with the dinghy hoist after a shot of rum to the
gills.. I think most big, dangerous, inedible fish get "released at
a distance" after a few photos.

I got the 200# braided line because I was tired of break offs with
100# mono, and got a reasonably good deal on a 2,000 yard spool of the
good stuff. I haven't had any break offs with it yet but clearly the
point of failure has moved to the next weakest link - the reel in this
case.

"Wayne B" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:55:01 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 6/5/13 8:58 PM, Wayne B wrote:

Back to fishing. It has become painfully clear (literally), that I
am not equipped properly, and/or not experienced enough, to boat a
really big fish. We've had our chances but something always breaks
before I can get the fish under control. The last demonstration of
this ineptitude was several days ago. I was trolling one rod, a
heavy duty model with low friction carbon fiber guides. The reel was
a mid-sized Penn-Senator salt water reel spooled up with several
hundred yards of hi tech Spectra braid rated at something like 200
pounds of breaking strength. The "Wahoo Magnet" lure was rigged with
a heavy duty braided wire leader and double hook.

We were trolling the north side of Little Inagua Island in the late
afternoon, just off shore in about 900 feet of water. The fish
struck really hard and screamed off about 100 yards of line in no time
at all while I was throttling back and shifting to neutral. I got to
the rod seconds later and started tightening the star drag as firmly
as I could get it. The fish paused for a few seconds and I briefly
thought that I had a chance of turning him, but almost immediately it
started spooling more line off the screaming reel. You could
literally smell the drag clutch burning and the reel was almost too
hot to touch. I made one more attempt to tighten the drag when
something broke inside the reel and it started free spooling. Within
seconds the remaining line was gone, and the rod which had been bent
at a 90 degree angle, snapped back and clipped me just above the eyes,
leaving a nasty little cut on my forehead. I never even had a look at
the darned fish but it was obviously big and powerful. Unfortunately
it is yet another fish story about the one that got away.

At any rate I need some advice on equipment and technique. What kind
of reel is appropriate for a big, powerful fish? What kind of drag
tension is needed/appropriate with 200# line? How much line do I need
on the reel? What is the right strategy? Are there any good internet
forums for this kind of information? Etc, etc.


I don't recall the specifics, since it is been many years since I owned
a Penn Senator, but I don't recall any of them rated for line with much
more than 100# breaking strength.

For starters, you were using line beyond the abilities of your reel.

Second, Spectra doesn't stretch, so all the tension is on your rod and
reel. Easy to snap the line or break your rod.

Third, just what would you do if you hooked a really large fish, say
something 200 pounds or more? If it were an edible fish, you'd have a
very difficult time getting it aboard your boat, and, if it were a
predatory fish with big teeth and it were flapping around on your deck,
there's no telling what might happen to you or your wife.

Fourth, if the fish were not really edible, are you going to lean over
as far as it would take to remove the hook from the fish's mouth? You
know how dangerous that could be.

Fifth, it doesn't take 200# line to catch a really large fish. I've
caught 100# to 250# pelagics on 20#-30# test line on a Shimano TLD.

Sixth, if you want to go after the big ones, get yourself a large
capacity lever drag reel and suitable rod, but you are going to end up
paying $500 or more for a new reel, and those are prices from my
memories of years ago. Maybe you need a two speed reel. Even so, 200#
line is way over the top.

Seventh, find out who is the best sportfishing captain for pelagics on
one of those islands you frequent, and charter out for the day with one
who is willing to teach you the tricks of the trade.

=======

Mostly good observations and advice there Harry, but we're on our way
home now with little or no time to stop and smell the roses, buy new
reels, find a charter captain, etc.

Why? Because I've always wanted to catch a really big fish - sort of
a bucket list kind of thing. Since we're out in "big fish" country
anyway, why not try to catch one?

If we caught a nice, big edible fish, I could probably tail rope it
and get it onboard with the dinghy hoist after a shot of rum to the
gills.. I think most big, dangerous, inedible fish get "released at
a distance" after a few photos.

I got the 200# braided line because I was tired of break offs with
100# mono, and got a reasonably good deal on a 2,000 yard spool of the
good stuff. I haven't had any break offs with it yet but clearly the
point of failure has moved to the next weakest link - the reel in this
case.


------------------

Should never have to touch the drag, except as a last resort. I land 100#+
tuna, standup, no chair with a Shimano Talica ll. Has about 500 yards of
65# spectra and a 100 yard 50# mono topshot. The topshot allows some give
in the line, so the hook does not pull. The 500 yards allows lots of time
and drag to tire the fish. Run about 15-20# drag, both for comfort for you
and the fact that as the line goes out, all that line in the water adds drag
to the fish and line itself. A 5-6' rod with roller eyes, so the line does
not wear. Just take your time and you will land them. Last 100# yellowfin
tuna took about a hour to land, but I had out a couple hundred yards of line
when I hooked the fish. They were staying a ways from the boat. These are
on 7-8 day long range boats out of San Diego. If you are trolling Rapalas,
take the middle belly hook off, not needed and when landing, less likely to
get a hook in the hand.

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 01:42:05 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jun 2013 18:28:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

I got the 200# braided line because I was tired of break offs with
100# mono, and got a reasonably good deal on a 2,000 yard spool of the
good stuff. I haven't had any break offs with it yet but clearly the
point of failure has moved to the next weakest link - the reel in this
case.

If I ever start fishing again I would put braid on my spinning rod. It
looks like pretty good stuff. We used it for flying a tethered balloon
about 300 yards up and out. It was a hoot for the kids.

I got this picture of our house
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/balloon/Our...ls%20house.jpg

I got this one when we started reeling it back in
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/balloon/Pel...%20horizon.jpg




I use braid in the bay. Strong and thin, and can cut your hand or fingers if you try to pull it in
with a fish on. Not every mono knot works with braid. Hard to cut, most scissors or nail clippers
won't do the job - unless brand new. Needs a sharp knife. But size-wise it's probably ten times
stronger than mono.

Oh, you can't use it in your weed-eater either. What a downer.

John H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 07:16:26 -0400, John H
wrote:

size-wise it's probably ten times
stronger than mono.

====

Yes, you can get a lot more on a reel. That's why I started using it
because I was tired of being spooled out by big fish. I actually
think it is easier to knot than mono.

On 6/7/2013 9:14 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 07:16:26 -0400, John H
wrote:

size-wise it's probably ten times
stronger than mono.

====

Yes, you can get a lot more on a reel. That's why I started using it
because I was tired of being spooled out by big fish. I actually
think it is easier to knot than mono.


Wayne, you need one of these. You can load it with a mile of 200lb braid.
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/prod...view&from=grid

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 09:25:05 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 6/7/2013 9:14 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 07:16:26 -0400, John H
wrote:

size-wise it's probably ten times
stronger than mono.

====

Yes, you can get a lot more on a reel. That's why I started using it
because I was tired of being spooled out by big fish. I actually
think it is easier to knot than mono.


Wayne, you need one of these. You can load it with a mile of 200lb braid.
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/prod...view&from=grid


====

That's a lot of line, no question about it, and it's a nice looking
reel - should be for that price. :-)

I notice that it's a "star" drag instead of "lever" however. I
wonder why since most of the high end reels I've been looking at seem
to be lever drag. The Penn-Senator reel where I just burned out the
clutches was star drag, much smaller however.

On 6/7/13 9:45 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 09:25:05 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 6/7/2013 9:14 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 07:16:26 -0400, John H
wrote:

size-wise it's probably ten times
stronger than mono.

====

Yes, you can get a lot more on a reel. That's why I started using it
because I was tired of being spooled out by big fish. I actually
think it is easier to knot than mono.


Wayne, you need one of these. You can load it with a mile of 200lb braid.
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/prod...view&from=grid


====

That's a lot of line, no question about it, and it's a nice looking
reel - should be for that price. :-)

I notice that it's a "star" drag instead of "lever" however. I
wonder why since most of the high end reels I've been looking at seem
to be lever drag. The Penn-Senator reel where I just burned out the
clutches was star drag, much smaller however.



1. Before you burned out your reel (btw, Penn has or had a rebuilding
service), what poundage were you setting the drag at? There are
relatively inexpensive mechanical fishing line drag weight scales that
tell you this. Obviously, on your defunct Penn, you could not set the
drag at 200#. Usually, drag is set at only a reasonable percentage of
what is available. I fished for stripers on the Bay here with 8 or 10#
test, with the drag set at 4 pounds. But, then, I was either holding the
rod or sitting next to it.

2. From what I understand from your posts, the real problem is that you
might not notice right away that you have a "hit," and then it takes you
a bit of time to get from wherever you are on your boat to where the rod
is located. I don't know how noisy your boat is when the engines are
running, but perhaps an answer might be to put some sort of "tell" on
the road you can hear from where you are piloting the boat.

I suggest this because I don't recall anyone using 200# line or anything
near that test breaking weight for any sort of fishing.

As an example, there's a two speed Shimano Tiagra 130A Reel for 130#
test line, and the maximum recommended strike drag is 80 pounds. This is
a $1200 dollar reel, and it holds about 1000 yards of of 130# mono line
and probably a mile of braided line. Putting 200# line on that reel
might burn it out, too.

You could catch a grander marlin with that sort of reel, but you can
also catch marlin on much smaller rigs.

Called my BVI buddy today and invited him along for my shopping trip for a new drawback/ball combo ( 2" drop and 3/4" raise )
For the Highlander.
He was looking for a gaff hook to take back to Tortola next month.
Found a new fishing store in a local Industrial Park.
More rods, reels and gaff hooks than I've seen in a while. All looked expensive. These people also arrange shark fishing
outings.

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 09:14:44 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jun 2013 07:16:26 -0400, John H
wrote:

size-wise it's probably ten times
stronger than mono.

====

Yes, you can get a lot more on a reel. That's why I started using it
because I was tired of being spooled out by big fish. I actually
think it is easier to knot than mono.

Yeah, it's not more difficult than mono, but some of the mono knots don't work well with the
braided. I don't remember which. Another thing I was told was that there should always be a base
layer of mono on the reel before the braid is wound. Don't remember all the particulars there
either. I suppose Google would provide the answer.

John H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!