On 5/18/2013 1:58 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 17:00:40 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 5/17/13 4:32 PM, Eisboch wrote:




On 5/17/2013 12:02 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the draft.

---------------------------------------------

I have a question that might be difficult to answer objectively, given
the years that have transpired.

You have mentioned before that you had a high draft number which was
never called. I assume at the time you were a young man in his late
teens, more likely in your early 20's.

Had your number been called, would you have reported as ordered? Not
how you feel now .... how you felt then.




Absolutely, I would have reported for a pre-induction physical and if I
were judged proper cannon fodder, I would have been in the Army, I
guess. But I was never called, even though all the years I was of draft
age, I regularly sent my draft board a registered, return receipt letter
informing it of my current status and address. My problem wasn't with
the draft, it was with the moronic war against the Vietnamese people.

Most young men of draft age were not drafted.


I bet you were 2-S most of that time.
They did not draft people in school


Harry knew that full well. Why else do you think Harry scurried down to
Kansas immediately after High school to pursue a worthless liberal arts
degree in English.

In article ,
says...

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.


It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

Horse****!

On 5/18/13 10:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.


It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

Horse****!


Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in most
of the skilled building trades.

In article ,
says...

On 5/18/13 10:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.


It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

Horse****!


Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in most
of the skilled building trades.

I've been around heavy construction all of my life, and I know hundreds
of people in civil/infrastructure work and unless they are an engineer,
or some other professional, they learned their trade by working their
way up, I know of not one single person who went into an apprenticeship
program to do such.

On 5/18/13 12:35 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 5/18/13 10:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.


It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

Horse****!


Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in most
of the skilled building trades.

I've been around heavy construction all of my life, and I know hundreds
of people in civil/infrastructure work and unless they are an engineer,
or some other professional, they learned their trade by working their
way up, I know of not one single person who went into an apprenticeship
program to do such.



Which has nothing to do with my outline of how union apprenticeship
programs work.

On May 18, 11:06*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 5/18/13 10:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:









In article ,
says...

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.

It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

Horse****!

Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in most
of the skilled building trades.

That is, unless you're like my neighbors son who bought his Carpenters
Union card.

He greased the right palm with 'x' amount of bucks and went to work
the next week earning $28, an hr. plus overtime and $90. perdiem

On 5/18/13 2:13 PM, Tim wrote:
On May 18, 11:06 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 5/18/13 10:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:









In article ,
says...

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.

It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

Horse****!

Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in most
of the skilled building trades.

That is, unless you're like my neighbors son who bought his Carpenters
Union card.

He greased the right palm with 'x' amount of bucks and went to work
the next week earning $28, an hr. plus overtime and $90. perdiem


It happens, but not often, but, hey, all the union corruption since the
beginning of unions in this country doesn't add up to the level of
corruption in the corporate world. And your neighbor's experience still
does not relate to the apprenticeship program.

The "son" must have had some skills, enough to fake it for a while. In
my local, if you claim to have the skills of a journeyman, you report to
the training facility to prove it. If you have some skills, the local
might let you in as an "improver," and then retest you after training
and time on the job.

The per diem part interests me. In my local, if you have to travel to
work, that's on you, not on the contractor.

On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:24:36 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The per diem part interests me. In my local, if you have to travel to
work, that's on you, not on the contractor.

===

In 1965 I had a unionized (CWA) summer job that paid $12 per diem.
That was considered big money in those days and it was tax free. With
the per diem and 16 hours/week of overtime I thought I was in fat
city. In addition to living well all summer, I went back to college
that fall with a car, a bunch of new clothes, and a decent checking
account.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...



Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in
most
of the skilled building trades.

--------------------------------------------------

Harry, I think you missed a lot in your life due to your limited
experience with what qualifies people in trade careers. You
obviously are fluent in union programs but there are many other ways
for trades people to obtain knowledge, expertise, experience, decent
jobs and fulfilling careers without being tied to a union for
support.

On 5/18/13 5:40 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...



Sorry, but that is exactly how the apprenticeship program works in most
of the skilled building trades.

--------------------------------------------------

Harry, I think you missed a lot in your life due to your limited
experience with what qualifies people in trade careers. You obviously
are fluent in union programs but there are many other ways for trades
people to obtain knowledge, expertise, experience, decent jobs and
fulfilling careers without being tied to a union for support.




I've never claimed you had to go through a union apprenticeship program
to have a career in the building trades.