Hi Guys.

I have been sailing for a stack of years, on anything from a 16' Hobie to an
80 foot maxi.

I wouldn't mind now doing some courses to gain official certification as a
skipper etc.

I often hear people say that every time you go out in a boat it all counts
towards your hours and you can log it down as experience.

My question is "Log it where?" Do I need to commence a course before
starting to log my experience?

When I got my pilots licence I also got a log book and I do log all my hours
in it. Is there something similar for boating?

Don't get me wrong, I am not a ****** and believe me, every time I even look
at a boat I learn something new, but I do have enough experience now to be
able to take a yacht out tomorrow and deliver it across the Pacific (weather
permitting!)

I know that but I have nothing that officially says that I can.

What is the next step??
--
Garry Beattie
Ocean Spirit Trailer Sailer &
Small Yacht Cruising Emagazine
www.ocean-spirit.com

"Garry Beattie" wrote in
u:

Hi Guys.

I have been sailing for a stack of years, on anything from a 16' Hobie
to an 80 foot maxi.

I wouldn't mind now doing some courses to gain official certification
as a skipper etc.

I often hear people say that every time you go out in a boat it all
counts towards your hours and you can log it down as experience.

My question is "Log it where?" Do I need to commence a course before
starting to log my experience?......



My understanding is that you have to show 365 days on the water in a 5
year period to even sit for the test(s). If it's your own boat, your
boat log book is sufficient. If it's someone else's boat, you have to
have a signed document from the skipper. Check with the Coast Guard for
the form.

It would help if you indicated where you want the "official certification." For example,
if you're in the USA, you might be able to get a "6-pak" (OUPV) or a Limited Master. The
required seatime can be "self certified" if you own your own boat. Thus you don't have to
show a log book, but proof of ownership over the appropriate time period. If your time is
on Other Peoples' Boats you need a form signed by the boat owner - this is a problem if
days are scattered over space and time. You may find you can self-certify for an "Inland"
license, but are unable to round up the required "offshore" days. In addition, there is a
test that is challenging, though it shouldn't be too hard for an experienced sailor.
There are sundry other requirements - a physical, background check, drug test, etc. The
license is required anytime there are paying passengers, including some situations that
might appear to be "cost sharing" arrangements.

Other counties have different systems. The British "Yachtmaster" license is a bit less
stringent on seatime (though I don't know how you prove time) but has a real, on the water
test.

-jeff

"Garry Beattie" wrote in message
u...
Hi Guys.

I have been sailing for a stack of years, on anything from a 16' Hobie to an
80 foot maxi.

I wouldn't mind now doing some courses to gain official certification as a
skipper etc.

I often hear people say that every time you go out in a boat it all counts
towards your hours and you can log it down as experience.

My question is "Log it where?" Do I need to commence a course before
starting to log my experience?

When I got my pilots licence I also got a log book and I do log all my hours
in it. Is there something similar for boating?

Don't get me wrong, I am not a ****** and believe me, every time I even look
at a boat I learn something new, but I do have enough experience now to be
able to take a yacht out tomorrow and deliver it across the Pacific (weather
permitting!)

I know that but I have nothing that officially says that I can.

What is the next step??
--
Garry Beattie
Ocean Spirit Trailer Sailer &
Small Yacht Cruising Emagazine
www.ocean-spirit.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
It would help if you indicated where you want the "official
certification." For example,

Sorry guys, It is Australia.

Actually I meant to post this into the Aus.sport.sailing newsgroup, but
accidentally posted it here instead.

Best regards

Garry Beattie
Ocean Spirit Trailer Sailer &
Small Yacht Cruising Emagazine
www.ocean-spirit.com

Most licensing organizations (MCA, RYA, Cayman, Marshall Isl.) and
professional/union organizations have either gone to or have used logbooks
for a number of years. The Master takes the book and enters time and other
pertinent data to the log of the mariner. The mariner then uses this
official document to provide proof of sea time for advancement. For those of
us with multiple licenses where the reference license is issued by the USCG
this is a real problem.

As for logging time in hours, I think that's because of the nature of
aviation vs marine. Air travel is measured in hours where marine travel is
typically in days. The USCG, in its infinite wisdom as decreed that the time
shall be referenced as an 8-hour day at sea counts as one day (4-hours is a
half-day, and 12-hours a day-and-a-half). Unless you are on a tanker of
tug-tow or some special consideration you will unlikely get anything over
the 1-day/8-hours rate. The USCG does mandate that sea time must be over a
designated period of time (something I don't think is an FAA regulation) to
show that the mariner is reasonably current with techniques.

In my case, as Master, I use a template recomended by the USCG to log days
at sea, hours, postions held, and other information. The document is signed
by myself as Master or the owner (as I am the Master) and a copy of the
Document of Registration sent is attached before sending it to the USCG for
inclusion in my personal folder. As others may indicate, USCG (and most
other organizations) require days at sea over a specified period of time to
show that you have the basic proficiency to warrant consideration for
licensing or upgrading. When renewal time comes, I reference the USCG
license but send certified copies of my logbook (if possible, otherwise I
have to send the actual logbook) to the other licensing organizations. Then
I wait for the players to agree that I do have the requirements for
renewal/upgrade.

The current solution as I see it (and this is subject to change at the whim
of the various organizations) is to do things depending on the mariners
nationality and desires. By that I mean I fill out the mariners logbook for
those organizations that want the data in their approved format in their
designated logblooks, provide a sea-time document and copy of vessel
registration for those with multiple licenses or those whose licenses are
based on the USCG, or do a combination of both.

This applys to mariners, licensed or not. I have gotten requests from former
crew requesting specific documentation for their purposes. So, I have to
keep detailed records of everyone that has ever passed over the gangplank to
my vessel.

In your case, I would contact every person you've sailed with and obtain a
sea-service certification and copy of the vessels documentation. I would
also ask for (and usually receive) the same information when terminating any
time at sea. You should be aware that the USCG has significantly increased
its checking of sea-time documentation and the days of receiving 100% your
own sea-time are becoming more difficult. The more sea time you can provide
from other licensed Masters/owners the better the chances of your total
sea-time being accepted. This is a direct result of the USCG and IMO trying
to counter critcism from other maritime organizations that believe the USCG
is far too lax in granting licensing approval. The main complaints (as I've
heard) are that sea-time often fails to substantiate the mariners documented
experience or license class, there is no practical test for USCG licensing
(and this is becoming a requirement as you read this, so I'd suggest you
apply and get grandfathered in), and that the guessing process for questions
doesn't test the candidates knowledge well enough.

In the near future you will have to show verifyable sea time, complete
testing that will include essays as well as multiple-guess, and pass an
on-the-water practical test in order to get licensed. You now have to decide
how much you want the license and then apply immediately. It's only going to
get harder to get licensed.

I hope that helps clarify your question.
--
If it doesn't make the boat go, it's a no.

In the US we get either a 'sea time' letter this is favored by MSC among
others, or a certificate of discharge. In both cases they send copies to
the USCG. I have one dating back to 1969. Much to my surprise I found my
time in the deck department back then had been listed as engine room. Well,
it counted for some things but cost me five months extra to get AB ticket
and didn't count on my 100 ton license. That's the professional side. On
the small boat side there is a form to fill out of course. By any owner or
Master (address, phone number and license numbers required) and that can be
yourself if you own your own boat. The minimum time spent on the water for a
'day' to count is four hours and you can only do this once each 'day'. The
hard part is finding the old skippers. My first one, a salmon troller out
of Brookings, OR has long departed this mortal coil. There went another
50-60 days. If you are getting or filling out these forms the size of the
boat is very important as is the average distance off shore. Over 150 miles
counts for 'oceans' less is 'Near Coastal' and 'inland' is of course inland.
The first one counts if you are upgrading to an uninspected vessel ticket
for trans-ocean passages. Have to add on celestial and few other things.
That clears you for deliveries where the insurance company demands a
licensed Captain. It does not clear you for inspected vessels (passengere
limit is that stated by the USCG inspection) where a lot of STCW
requirements are added (About $8,000 to $12,000 worth of additional
schools). What saved me was days on S/V Alvei a registered 103 ton boat.
Those extra three tons covered a lot of territory as did the small boat form
AND letter from Captain Logan. For my Z Card I had to have 360 days over
100 tons of which 50% had to be over 500 tons. For my license it gave me
the full 100 ton inspected/uninspected up front and the next step is change
that to Oceans. I have an enquiry in to the USCG (Portland, OR I recommend
them above all others with Long Beach being the worst) to see if the step up
to Oceans is the best way to go OR go to the 200 ton upgrade for Oceans.
Probably the latter but the 200 ton will be for mate only until I have
worked in the job for a minimum number of days. The main thing is get all
documentation as it happens, and accurately. Carry your own blank forms
(small boat form for example). If you work or crew on a foreign ship either
get there paperwork or ask them to fill out a copy of ours. It all counts.
We have an AB on board who is a recent immigrant (legal kind) from the
Phillipines. There he holds a 2nd Mate ticket. Worked Phillipine and
Japanese owned freighters and tankers. Eventually all that will count
(after he gets citizenship).

Come to think of it I still have the old pilots log with 20 hours of time in
it from 1968. Hmmmmm. . . . . No . . .I'll stick to boats! Not enough time
left and I've wasted to much already.

MST

Schoonertrash makes several good points.

The cost of my upgrading from a 100-ton Near Coastal w aux. sail and
commercial assist towing to a 500-ton Oceans Master/1600-ton Oceans Mate
with STCW '95, MCA Class IV (to Captain "Red Flag" or British Vessels),
Mashall Island and Cayman Islands Licenses was $14,000 and 4 months of
continuous study. A student in the same class queue as I who had zero
sea-time ended up spending $18,000 to obtain an OICNW (Officer In Charge of
Navigation Watch) which allowed him to accumulate sea time for his 500-ton
Oceans (at the current time requirements). Simply, the longer you wait, the
more modules they add to the requirements (advanced meterology, light
signals, flag signals, etc.), the higher the cost, increased time to obtain
the license, and more pressure to pass the first time.

With increased bureaucracy and commercial interests, the cost of
obtaining/upgrading/maintaining your license is getting more expensive. The
days of $140 renewal fees (plus the physical and drug test) for a 6-pack or
50-ton license are a far cry from maintaining an Inspected Vessel license
class with appropriate endorsements (currently around $500). The good thing
is that owners and companies are beginning to see that higher class licenses
cost more to maintain and are beginning to compensate mariners. Insurance
companies, stung by stupid navigational mistakes and poor seamanship are
requiring more stringent manning levels aboard vessels.

Finally, what was good on your old application may not be good now. A number
of mariners have had sea time disallowed on their renewal due to lack of new
documentation requirements or the inability of the USCG to contact the
referenced Master/Owner.