Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

Silly. Answered later.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 1:59 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

Having nothing to do with this story

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

Bull****, the only way you can order a gun from another state is to
have it shipped to an FFL in your state, where you pick it up, after
the background check and the 4473.
Any FFL selling a gun still has to log the transaction in his bound
book, even if it is a private sale from his own collection and he
needs to run the background check.
I posted a link to the law on the ATF web site a week or two ago.

Try again.

What is a legal internet sale?


I thought you could order genuine antique firearms and modern black
powder firearms directly. I could be wrong about this. I sold a shotgun
once through an online auction to a fellow in Nebraska, and the auction
site was clear the firearm had to be shipped to an FFL there.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

It can be delivered to a FFL holder in your local. I bought my M&P Pro 9mm from Bud's Guns out in
Kentucky. They provide a convenient way to locate an FFL holder. Just enter your zip code:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/ffl.php

I picked the cheapest and closest. Worked like a charm.



Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

In article , says...

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

If you have an FFL on file with the vendor or other FFL dealer they will verify that your FFL
is current and send it to the address listed on your FFL. If you don't have an FFL you have
to provide an FFL in your state to have the firearm shipped to where you then have to go and
perform the transfer between you and your local FFL.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 07:56:34 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

If you have an FFL on file with the vendor or other FFL dealer they will verify that your FFL
is current and send it to the address listed on your FFL. If you don't have an FFL you have
to provide an FFL in your state to have the firearm shipped to where you then have to go and
perform the transfer between you and your local FFL.


Bud's Guns just makes it easy for the buyer to find one.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 11:39 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:31:03 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:59 AM, wrote:


What is a legal internet sale?


I thought you could order genuine antique firearms and modern black
powder firearms directly. I could be wrong about this.

There are still some muzzle loaders and cap and ball revolvers that
are exempt from GCA 86 but that is not what everyone has their panties
in a wad about

I sold a shotgun
once through an online auction to a fellow in Nebraska, and the auction
site was clear the firearm had to be shipped to an FFL there.

That was a FFL sale with a 4473 and a background check.
Any auction site that actually brokers the money or sets up the
details of the transaction will need an FFL involved and maybe two.



Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:40:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 07:49:18 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

It can be delivered to a FFL holder in your local. I bought my M&P Pro 9mm from Bud's Guns out in
Kentucky. They provide a convenient way to locate an FFL holder. Just enter your zip code:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/ffl.php

I picked the cheapest and closest. Worked like a charm.


That FFL ran a background check and you filled out a 4473.

Yup, did it online while I was filling out the 4473. Whole thing took 20 minutes, and that included
bull****ting about motorcycles.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:46:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 11:39 AM, wrote:

I sold a shotgun
once through an online auction to a fellow in Nebraska, and the auction
site was clear the firearm had to be shipped to an FFL there.

That was a FFL sale with a 4473 and a background check.
Any auction site that actually brokers the money or sets up the
details of the transaction will need an FFL involved and maybe two.



Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

I agree that is not oppressive but that has been the law for almost a
half century. What internet sales are they talking about?

After looking up the current legislation, it appears they want to
eliminate all private sales. If I want to sell a shotgun to a neighbor
I have known for 30 years, I would still need to go through a dealer.

How will that be enforceable?


I have no idea. I have bills of sale with descriptions and serial
numbers on all my firearms transactions. I wouldn't buy or sell a
firearm without an FFL's documentation.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:27:03 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 12:04 PM, wrote:

Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

I agree that is not oppressive but that has been the law for almost a
half century. What internet sales are they talking about?

After looking up the current legislation, it appears they want to
eliminate all private sales. If I want to sell a shotgun to a neighbor
I have known for 30 years, I would still need to go through a dealer.

How will that be enforceable?


I have no idea. I have bills of sale with descriptions and serial
numbers on all my firearms transactions. I wouldn't buy or sell a
firearm without an FFL's documentation.


I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:03:33 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.

What's your zip?

Here's a list of some of the FFL dealers within25 miles of 33955.

LANCE ARTHUR JOSEPH (9.3 mi)
Gold Miner Inc The (12.2 mi)
BAYSHORE GUNS & GOLD INC (12.9 mi)
TROPIC LIGHTNING INC (14.6 mi)
SHARYN MASTER SPORTS (14.8 mi)
GUN NEGOTIATOR (16.7 mi)
GUNS R US INC (16.7 mi)
EBS ARMS (16.9 mi)
CAPE GUNS (17.9 mi)
MTs Gun Shop Inc (19.7 mi)
PARADISE JEWELRY & PAWN INC (20 mi)
FIRE-LINE AMMUNITION (20.2 mi)
San Carlos Estate Jewelry & Pa (23.4 mi)

The top six charge $30 or less.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:59:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

Having nothing to do with this story

Having everything to do with what happened in Newtown and Columbine.


BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

Bull****, the only way you can order a gun from another state is to
have it shipped to an FFL in your state, where you pick it up, after
the background check and the 4473.
Any FFL selling a gun still has to log the transaction in his bound
book, even if it is a private sale from his own collection and he
needs to run the background check.
I posted a link to the law on the ATF web site a week or two ago.

Try again.

What is a legal internet sale?

As I said. You can order it and follow the rules. So, you're the one
full of ****, as usual.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:04:45 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:46:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 11:39 AM, wrote:

I sold a shotgun
once through an online auction to a fellow in Nebraska, and the auction
site was clear the firearm had to be shipped to an FFL there.

That was a FFL sale with a 4473 and a background check.
Any auction site that actually brokers the money or sets up the
details of the transaction will need an FFL involved and maybe two.



Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

I agree that is not oppressive but that has been the law for almost a
half century. What internet sales are they talking about?

After looking up the current legislation, it appears they want to
eliminate all private sales. If I want to sell a shotgun to a neighbor
I have known for 30 years, I would still need to go through a dealer.

How will that be enforceable?

There's no "current" legislation. There's a proposal. Are you now
claiming that you don't want to wait and see?

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:18:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Cost me $10 to get printed at the local sheriff for a background
check. No big deal.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 07:56:34 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

If you have an FFL on file with the vendor or other FFL dealer they will verify that your FFL
is current and send it to the address listed on your FFL. If you don't have an FFL you have
to provide an FFL in your state to have the firearm shipped to where you then have to go and
perform the transfer between you and your local FFL.


As I said. Follow the rules and it's legal.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 3:21 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:18:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Cost me $10 to get printed at the local sheriff for a background
check. No big deal.


It just isn't a big deal to follow the procedures.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:23:10 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

===

As usual, you are making it up as you go along. Excuse me for trying
to educate you.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:23:57 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 3:21 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:18:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Cost me $10 to get printed at the local sheriff for a background
check. No big deal.


It just isn't a big deal to follow the procedures.

I was just a walk-in with no appt. Worst case, I would have to come
back after lunch. This wasn't for a carry permit. It was for "peace
officer" status.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:02:52 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:23:10 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

===

As usual, you are making it up as you go along. Excuse me for trying
to educate you.

So, you can't show me where I said that. Excuse me for thinking you
were honest.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

In article , says...

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:59:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

Having nothing to do with this story

Having everything to do with what happened in Newtown and Columbine.


BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

Bull****, the only way you can order a gun from another state is to
have it shipped to an FFL in your state, where you pick it up, after
the background check and the 4473.
Any FFL selling a gun still has to log the transaction in his bound
book, even if it is a private sale from his own collection and he
needs to run the background check.
I posted a link to the law on the ATF web site a week or two ago.

Try again.

What is a legal internet sale?

As I said. You can order it and follow the rules. So, you're the one
full of ****, as usual.

You said no such thing. You just said that you could order a gun online.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:56 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:02:52 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:23:10 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

===

As usual, you are making it up as you go along. Excuse me for trying
to educate you.

So, you can't show me where I said that. Excuse me for thinking you
were honest.

===

You said, and I quote: "Not if you order through a dealer online",
implying that it was possible to bypass pre-purchase checks and
registration by ordering online. Nothing could be farther from the
truth. Go play word games with someone else Ur'N'Azzwhole, and clean
up your act while you're at it.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 8:02 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:56 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:02:52 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:23:10 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

===

As usual, you are making it up as you go along. Excuse me for trying
to educate you.

So, you can't show me where I said that. Excuse me for thinking you
were honest.

===

You said, and I quote: "Not if you order through a dealer online",
implying that it was possible to bypass pre-purchase checks and
registration by ordering online. Nothing could be farther from the
truth. Go play word games with someone else Ur'N'Azzwhole, and clean
up your act while you're at it.



The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else. This fine specimen in
..50 Caliber, will kill anyone you like, Whine:

http://tinyurl.com/bqkcrzt

Thompson/Center firearms of all varieties are very high quality.

Order on the internet, no FFL required.

Similar caliber pistols also available.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else.

===

Muzzle loaders? Get real.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 8:38 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else.

===

Muzzle loaders? Get real.


A decent quality muzzle loader is accurate, easy to load, powerful and
not too expensive.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:05:51 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:59:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

Having nothing to do with this story

Having everything to do with what happened in Newtown and Columbine.


BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

Bull****, the only way you can order a gun from another state is to
have it shipped to an FFL in your state, where you pick it up, after
the background check and the 4473.
Any FFL selling a gun still has to log the transaction in his bound
book, even if it is a private sale from his own collection and he
needs to run the background check.
I posted a link to the law on the ATF web site a week or two ago.

Try again.

What is a legal internet sale?

As I said. You can order it and follow the rules. So, you're the one
full of ****, as usual.

You said no such thing. You just said that you could order a gun online.

So, just to be clear... you're claiming that I said you could by a gun
online and there are no rules? If so, please quote the line. Yeah, you
can't.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:02:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:56 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 16:02:52 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:23:10 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

===

As usual, you are making it up as you go along. Excuse me for trying
to educate you.

So, you can't show me where I said that. Excuse me for thinking you
were honest.

===

You said, and I quote: "Not if you order through a dealer online",
implying that it was possible to bypass pre-purchase checks and
registration by ordering online. Nothing could be farther from the
truth. Go play word games with someone else Ur'N'Azzwhole, and clean
up your act while you're at it.

I wasn't implying anything. I said what I said. You've implied that I
wouldn't understand that there are rules involved.

Sounds like you're the one playing with himself.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:38:04 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else.

===

Muzzle loaders? Get real.

So, when I said order a gun online (now without any rules, which is
your bull****) without realizing it I was actually right (WITH YOUR
****ING NO-RULES BULL****) and now you're claim a muzzle loader isn't
a gun. Get real.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 9:05 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:38:04 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else.

===

Muzzle loaders? Get real.

So, when I said order a gun online (now without any rules, which is
your bull****) without realizing it I was actually right (WITH YOUR
****ING NO-RULES BULL****) and now you're claim a muzzle loader isn't
a gun. Get real.


W'hine imagines himself the Great and Powerful Arbitrator, and possibly
is thinking of flintlocks, or Jeremiah Johnson's Hawken.

Things have changed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CFR5M9WyPY

My suspicion is that neither W'hiner nor Herring standing 500' away
could hit the Goodyear Blimp with a bullet from a firearm.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:47:56 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 8:38 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else.

===

Muzzle loaders? Get real.


A decent quality muzzle loader is accurate, easy to load, powerful and
not too expensive.

Just what you want when someone's walking up that dark stairwell, right ESAD?

More 'special circumstances'?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/13/13 12:17 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:13:05 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The reality is that you can indeed order certain firearms on-line
without bothering with an FFL or anything else. This fine specimen in
.50 Caliber, will kill anyone you like, Whine:

http://tinyurl.com/bqkcrzt

Thompson/Center firearms of all varieties are very high quality.

Order on the internet, no FFL required.

Similar caliber pistols also available.


:"Leupold Ultimate Slam 3-9x40 muzzleloader"

Is there a big problem with criminals and mass shooters using "muzzle
loaders".
The pistols are cap and ball revolvers. You can buy flintlocks without
a FFL too.


The question was whether firearms could be ordered legally over the
internet without an FFL running the background check. The answer is yes.
The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Apr 13, 6:45*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.


I thought it was a percussion (cap and ball) that killed the
president.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/13/13 7:55 AM, Tim wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:45 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.


I thought it was a percussion (cap and ball) that killed the
president.


My source is this:

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/06/21/infamous-weapons/


The point was that these sorts of firearms that don't require the buyer
to go through an FFL are available on the internet.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 04:55:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

On Apr 13, 6:45*am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.


I thought it was a percussion (cap and ball) that killed the
president.

Yup.

He died on my birthday.

Pistol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philade...lphia_Deringer


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:04:43 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/13/13 7:55 AM, Tim wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:45 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.


I thought it was a percussion (cap and ball) that killed the
president.


My source is this:

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/06/21/infamous-weapons/


The point was that these sorts of firearms that don't require the buyer
to go through an FFL are available on the internet.

So are these: http://www.bigbangcannons.com/upload/155MM2.jpg


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/13/13 8:16 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:04:43 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/13/13 7:55 AM, Tim wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:45 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.


I thought it was a percussion (cap and ball) that killed the
president.


My source is this:

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/06/21/infamous-weapons/


The point was that these sorts of firearms that don't require the buyer
to go through an FFL are available on the internet.

So are these: http://www.bigbangcannons.com/upload/155MM2.jpg


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.



No need for further examples of your stupidity. We've convinced.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/13/13 11:04 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:04:43 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/13/13 7:55 AM, Tim wrote:
On Apr 13, 6:45 am, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The pistol used to kill Lincoln was a flintlock, a single-shot
Derringer. No FFL needed to buy one then or now.


I thought it was a percussion (cap and ball) that killed the
president.


My source is this:

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/06/21/infamous-weapons/


This is why you can't believe most of what media writers write.

That is clearly a cap and ball pistol.


The real point was that it was a deadly firearm you can purchase without
dealing with an FFL.