Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 12:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:46:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 11:39 AM, wrote:

I sold a shotgun
once through an online auction to a fellow in Nebraska, and the auction
site was clear the firearm had to be shipped to an FFL there.

That was a FFL sale with a 4473 and a background check.
Any auction site that actually brokers the money or sets up the
details of the transaction will need an FFL involved and maybe two.



Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

I agree that is not oppressive but that has been the law for almost a
half century. What internet sales are they talking about?

After looking up the current legislation, it appears they want to
eliminate all private sales. If I want to sell a shotgun to a neighbor
I have known for 30 years, I would still need to go through a dealer.

How will that be enforceable?


I have no idea. I have bills of sale with descriptions and serial
numbers on all my firearms transactions. I wouldn't buy or sell a
firearm without an FFL's documentation.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:27:03 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 12:04 PM, wrote:

Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

I agree that is not oppressive but that has been the law for almost a
half century. What internet sales are they talking about?

After looking up the current legislation, it appears they want to
eliminate all private sales. If I want to sell a shotgun to a neighbor
I have known for 30 years, I would still need to go through a dealer.

How will that be enforceable?


I have no idea. I have bills of sale with descriptions and serial
numbers on all my firearms transactions. I wouldn't buy or sell a
firearm without an FFL's documentation.


I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:03:33 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.

What's your zip?

Here's a list of some of the FFL dealers within25 miles of 33955.

LANCE ARTHUR JOSEPH (9.3 mi)
Gold Miner Inc The (12.2 mi)
BAYSHORE GUNS & GOLD INC (12.9 mi)
TROPIC LIGHTNING INC (14.6 mi)
SHARYN MASTER SPORTS (14.8 mi)
GUN NEGOTIATOR (16.7 mi)
GUNS R US INC (16.7 mi)
EBS ARMS (16.9 mi)
CAPE GUNS (17.9 mi)
MTs Gun Shop Inc (19.7 mi)
PARADISE JEWELRY & PAWN INC (20 mi)
FIRE-LINE AMMUNITION (20.2 mi)
San Carlos Estate Jewelry & Pa (23.4 mi)

The top six charge $30 or less.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 01:59:20 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

Having nothing to do with this story

Having everything to do with what happened in Newtown and Columbine.


BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

Bull****, the only way you can order a gun from another state is to
have it shipped to an FFL in your state, where you pick it up, after
the background check and the 4473.
Any FFL selling a gun still has to log the transaction in his bound
book, even if it is a private sale from his own collection and he
needs to run the background check.
I posted a link to the law on the ATF web site a week or two ago.

Try again.

What is a legal internet sale?

As I said. You can order it and follow the rules. So, you're the one
full of ****, as usual.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:04:45 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:46:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 11:39 AM, wrote:

I sold a shotgun
once through an online auction to a fellow in Nebraska, and the auction
site was clear the firearm had to be shipped to an FFL there.

That was a FFL sale with a 4473 and a background check.
Any auction site that actually brokers the money or sets up the
details of the transaction will need an FFL involved and maybe two.



Well, it certainly wasn't inconvenient on my end. FFL sent me a copy of
his license, I shipped him the shotgun. I still don't understand what
the problem is with doing business that way.

I agree that is not oppressive but that has been the law for almost a
half century. What internet sales are they talking about?

After looking up the current legislation, it appears they want to
eliminate all private sales. If I want to sell a shotgun to a neighbor
I have known for 30 years, I would still need to go through a dealer.

How will that be enforceable?

There's no "current" legislation. There's a proposal. Are you now
claiming that you don't want to wait and see?

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:18:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Cost me $10 to get printed at the local sheriff for a background
check. No big deal.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 07:56:34 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:56:24 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 17:06:51 -0700, jps wrote:


How many each year in the US, something like 17,000?

And in states where guns are embraced, the percentages of gun suicides
is much higher.

"Matthew Warren, the son of evangelical megachurch pastor Rick Warren
who committed suicide last week, killed himself with an unregistered
gun he had bought online, the pastor said on Thursday.

"Someone on the Internet sold Matthew an unregistered gun. I pray he
seeks God's forgiveness. I forgive him. #MATTHEW 6:15," the pastor
tweeted, referencing a Biblical passage about the forgiveness of
sins."

What the hell doe any of this have to do with the suicide?

The Japanese, who the "gun safety" people love to point to, have a
much higher suicide rate than the US with virtually no guns.
Since you brought up the internet, I will remind you that a quick
Google search will give you dozens of ways to "punch out" without a
gun.

Perhaps the issue is that some people who want to die want to take a
lot of others with them.

BTW I am still not sure how you legally buy a gun on the internet. How
do they deliver the gun? Interstate sales and sales through the mail
have been illegal for 45 years.

Not if you order through a dealer online.

If you have an FFL on file with the vendor or other FFL dealer they will verify that your FFL
is current and send it to the address listed on your FFL. If you don't have an FFL you have
to provide an FFL in your state to have the firearm shipped to where you then have to go and
perform the transfer between you and your local FFL.


As I said. Follow the rules and it's legal.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 12:12:33 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:40:11 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

Not if you order through a dealer online.

===

Your lack of knowledge is showing. No reputable gun dealer who
values their license or business will ship a gun directly to you. The
required procedure is that you find a local FFL (Federal Firearms
Licensee) who will receive the gun from the dealer, perform a
background check on the buyer, perform the registration requirements,
and only then allow you to take delivery.

Please show me where I said "ship a gun directly to you." As usual,
you show your lack of reading comprehension.

Another suicide by unregistered gun
 

On 4/12/13 3:21 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 14:18:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 2:03 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:44:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/12/13 1:33 PM, wrote:

I would be skeptical about buying a gun from a stranger without having
the SN flushed through NCIC to be sure it wasn't stolen but I am not
sure I need a FFL involved.
I doubt most do that anyway. I also wonder if ATF actually looks at
stolen gun records when they process the 4473
I have never bought a gun from a stranger but about half the guns I
have were obtained in private transfers from people I know. Half of
those were cops. Most cops I know are also gun collectors who buy and
sell occasionally. (some more than occasionally)



I've purchased firearms from five different dealers in Maryland and
never had an issue with any. Couple of years ago, my favorite tackle
shop where I had also purchased my .22LR, got approved by ATF to sell
handguns, too, so if and when I buy another, he's the go-to guy for me.

You might know the shop...as you go East on R260 towards Chesapeake
Beach, he's about a half mile in on the left, in a strip shopping
center. Great shop, lots of fishing gear, good prices, bows, and now,
handguns. Guy has no problem accepting your incoming purchases from
another FFL if it is something he doesn't handle normally. Just charges
a reasonable FFL fee. Some dealers won't do that.

New carry out seafood joint recently opened next door. Very good food.


That is no help for me. I can't legally buy a gun in Maryland. I would
have to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida.
This looks like the FFL relief bill of 2013. There are no limits in
the bill about how much a dealer might charge for brokering these
transactions.
The only parallel today in federal law is the transfer of a machine
gun and the dealers hold you down and screw you on that. (simply for
the 4473, background check and one other form, a BATF Form 4)
It is up to the purchaser to come up with the passport photos and a
pair of fingerprint cards, although some dealers will do that.



When I got "printed" for my carry permit, a deputy in the local
sheriff's office did it for $5 or $10, I forgot which, on "official"
cards, which she handed to me.

Cost me $10 to get printed at the local sheriff for a background
check. No big deal.


It just isn't a big deal to follow the procedures.