On 3/14/2013 9:24 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

The cost of getting a college degree has risen 1,120 percent since
1978 ... far more than the cost of health care or health insurance
premiums. Even with Pell grants, scholarships and other forms of
financial aid, many graduates are faced with student loans that they
won't be able to pay off until they are in their 50's when they have
to start thinking of *their* kid's college costs. Plus, starting
salaries for recent grads have dropped for the most part and many
can't think about home ownership.

Where are all these cost increases going?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-15/cost-of-college-degree-in-u-s-soars-12-fold-chart-of-the-day.html

Extreme college costs are due in a large part to the same philosophy of
the mortgage mess. Everyone should be entitled to a college education so
we'll (the gov't) will give people money to go. SO, the colleges see
this as a cash cow and raise tuition. AND take a look at consumables,
like text books, insanely costly.


You said it iboaterer, Gov't has caused the explosive rise in college
costs. And the mortgage mess was caused by the gov't too! I was so wrong
I thought your answer for everything was more government. Healthcare
inflation is next, but I'm sure you think that will be different.
Mikek

On 3/14/2013 9:52 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:35:51 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:09:12 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Those "lifetime earnings" stats don't account for kids who paid up for
college but didn't succeed. They end up dropping out before they
finish, or finish and end up working at Starbucks.

====

Not everyone who drops out of college ends up in a dead end job.
Take a look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs for two notable examples.
There are lots more.

That's true, but those who don't go are much more likely to earn many
thousands less over their lifetime. More true now than ever. Even four
years is just the minimum now.

Unless you start a business.
Mikek

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 21:15:08 -0500, amdx
wrote:

On 3/14/2013 9:52 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:35:51 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:09:12 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Those "lifetime earnings" stats don't account for kids who paid up for
college but didn't succeed. They end up dropping out before they
finish, or finish and end up working at Starbucks.

====

Not everyone who drops out of college ends up in a dead end job.
Take a look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs for two notable examples.
There are lots more.

That's true, but those who don't go are much more likely to earn many
thousands less over their lifetime. More true now than ever. Even four
years is just the minimum now.

Unless you start a business.
Mikek

====

Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job, i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door. Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead. There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty, blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing, diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very well
and can lead to having your own business.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job, i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door. Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead. There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty, blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing, diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 21:15:08 -0500, amdx
wrote:

On 3/14/2013 9:52 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:35:51 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:09:12 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Those "lifetime earnings" stats don't account for kids who paid up for
college but didn't succeed. They end up dropping out before they
finish, or finish and end up working at Starbucks.

====

Not everyone who drops out of college ends up in a dead end job.
Take a look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs for two notable examples.
There are lots more.

That's true, but those who don't go are much more likely to earn many
thousands less over their lifetime. More true now than ever. Even four
years is just the minimum now.

Unless you start a business.
Mikek

====

Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job, i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door. Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead. There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty, blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing, diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very well
and can lead to having your own business.

Yeah, it's all about the money, then when a new techology comes
around, you can kiss that job goodbye.

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 21:15:08 -0500, amdx
wrote:

On 3/14/2013 9:52 PM, Urin Asshole wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:35:51 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:09:12 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Those "lifetime earnings" stats don't account for kids who paid up for
college but didn't succeed. They end up dropping out before they
finish, or finish and end up working at Starbucks.

====

Not everyone who drops out of college ends up in a dead end job.
Take a look at Bill Gates and Steve Jobs for two notable examples.
There are lots more.

That's true, but those who don't go are much more likely to earn many
thousands less over their lifetime. More true now than ever. Even four
years is just the minimum now.

Unless you start a business.
Mikek

Sure. Everyone should do it. Except everyone can't. Moronic point
dip****.

"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job, i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills is
so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door.
Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who
just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead. There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty,
blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing, diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a
huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

-------------------------------------------------------

Degrees and graduate degrees are fine and wonderful but if there are
no jobs to be had (or just a few in very limited fields), not only is
the degree non-productive there is also an almost lifetime level of
debt for many. I have been shocked to learn of how many recent
college grads are unemployed because they cannot find a job and of the
number of older people with degrees and years of experience who are
collecting extended unemployment checks. An economic recovery, if it
ever really happens, isn't going to bring those jobs back.

Check out these statistics:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/02/01/alarming-number-of-student-loans-are-delinquent/

Things have changed and Wayne is correct, IMO.

On 3/18/13 3:20 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job, i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door. Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead. There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty, blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing, diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

-------------------------------------------------------

Degrees and graduate degrees are fine and wonderful but if there are no
jobs to be had (or just a few in very limited fields), not only is the
degree non-productive there is also an almost lifetime level of debt for
many. I have been shocked to learn of how many recent college grads
are unemployed because they cannot find a job and of the number of older
people with degrees and years of experience who are collecting extended
unemployment checks. An economic recovery, if it ever really happens,
isn't going to bring those jobs back.

Check out these statistics:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/02/01/alarming-number-of-student-loans-are-delinquent/


Things have changed and Wayne is correct, IMO.



There isn't going to be a real economic recovery until there is a
restructuring of our society. Too much of our nation's wealth is in the
hands of the super rich, and the trend in that direction continues. More
then they have since the 19th Century here, workers have become a
disposable commodity, with more of them working without even basic
protections, with a diminishing number of employers providing health
care, with few employers providing defined pensions, et cetera. It's
becoming much more difficult to put away a few dollars when one is
facing a lifetime of really insecure employment, family medical bills,
et cetera. As a society, we're on the downhill part of a roller coaster
ride that sadly leads only to the bottom.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
news
On 3/18/13 3:20 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job,
i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills
is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door.
Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who
just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead.
There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty,
blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing,
diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are
physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very
well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not
really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a
huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine
without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

-------------------------------------------------------

Degrees and graduate degrees are fine and wonderful but if there are
no
jobs to be had (or just a few in very limited fields), not only is
the
degree non-productive there is also an almost lifetime level of debt
for
many. I have been shocked to learn of how many recent college
grads
are unemployed because they cannot find a job and of the number of
older
people with degrees and years of experience who are collecting
extended
unemployment checks. An economic recovery, if it ever really
happens,
isn't going to bring those jobs back.

Check out these statistics:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/02/01/alarming-number-of-student-loans-are-delinquent/


Things have changed and Wayne is correct, IMO.



There isn't going to be a real economic recovery until there is a
restructuring of our society. Too much of our nation's wealth is in
the
hands of the super rich, and the trend in that direction continues.
More
then they have since the 19th Century here, workers have become a
disposable commodity, with more of them working without even basic
protections, with a diminishing number of employers providing health
care, with few employers providing defined pensions, et cetera. It's
becoming much more difficult to put away a few dollars when one is
facing a lifetime of really insecure employment, family medical bills,
et cetera. As a society, we're on the downhill part of a roller
coaster
ride that sadly leads only to the bottom.

--------------------------------------------------

Why is that so? I don't agree with your "disposable commodity"
mentality, but I do agree that there is a shrinking middle class due
to a corresponding shrinking job market. Even Al Gore warned of this
way back when. So did Ross Perot.

There has always been "super rich". Why is the "super rich" suddenly
and primarily responsible for the job losses and resultant middle
class unemployment?

The primary reason is global competition for traditional manufacturing
jobs in industry. As Wayne pointed out, there will always be jobs
that can't be outsourced, but everyone can't be a plumber,
electrician or HVAC technician. For a while, everyone and his brother
was becoming an "IT" serviceperson or was setting up website creation
and maintenance services. But with canned software, anyone with half
a brain can create and maintain their own website.

Go to an ER or hospital lately? A good number of the doctors are
transplants from other countries. Cars run for 100,000 miles or more
with only cursory maintenance. Used to require a tune-up every 20,000
miles. Electronic devices like computers and TV's have become
disposable and cheap. No need to repair them and when they can be
repaired, you can usually do it yourself. Magazines and newspapers
are on the decline. Everything worth reading can be found on the
Internet. No need for mechanics maintaining printing presses or
truck drivers delivering bales of newspapers anymore.

If you stop to think about all the technological advances made in the
past 15 years or so and also consider the global competition for the
manufacturing jobs, I think it becomes clear what has happened to
middle class jobs.

In article ,
says...

"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job, i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills is
so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door.
Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who
just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead. There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty,
blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing, diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a
huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

-------------------------------------------------------

Degrees and graduate degrees are fine and wonderful but if there are
no jobs to be had (or just a few in very limited fields), not only is
the degree non-productive there is also an almost lifetime level of
debt for many. I have been shocked to learn of how many recent
college grads are unemployed because they cannot find a job and of the
number of older people with degrees and years of experience who are
collecting extended unemployment checks. An economic recovery, if it
ever really happens, isn't going to bring those jobs back.

Check out these statistics:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/02/01/alarming-number-of-student-loans-are-delinquent/

Things have changed and Wayne is correct, IMO.

My wife is an out of work Analytical Chemist with two BS degrees in the
sciences and 25 years in analytical chemistry. She has been looking for
a job going on 10 months now. She is competing against people with PhD's
and MS's and other BS's. Some sites tell you how many people have
applied for the job you just applied to and often times it lists
anywhere from 150 to 300 people applying for that one position. Having a
college degree is no help when they jobs are not available.