On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:57:50 -0400, Meyer wrote:

On 3/13/2013 1:41 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

From their parents, of course. Apparently yours were absent.

I had a strong "religious" upbringing and I had parents with strong
basic values. Too bad you didn't.

How did you get so far off course? ( Setting a nautical tone)

Please note that I didn't say that even though the door had opened.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:11:23 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:24:58 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:26:32 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

How about parents? How about laws? You need a mythical being to tell
you what's right and wrong?? You're claiming that you wouldn't have
any moral compass without a god to direct you??

Parables and fantasies are much more effective at teaching kids how to
live an ethically centered life.

My kids are still in the me, me, me stage but they're still not as
selfish as the wingers in rec.boats.

So why the slam at religion? It obviously has very little to do with the inheritance of values.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!

On 3/13/13 3:36 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:11:23 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:24:58 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:26:32 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

How about parents? How about laws? You need a mythical being to tell
you what's right and wrong?? You're claiming that you wouldn't have
any moral compass without a god to direct you??

Parables and fantasies are much more effective at teaching kids how to
live an ethically centered life.

My kids are still in the me, me, me stage but they're still not as
selfish as the wingers in rec.boats.

So why the slam at religion? It obviously has very little to do with the inheritance of values.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


If religion has very little to do with the inheritance of values, then
what purpose does it serve?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:59 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:14:37 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:26:32 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

From their parents and extended family. We home school our kids in
moral and ethical values. Personal responsibility, eh?

Thank you. You made my point.

Who gives a **** about your point. My point is that you can't
outsource moral training for your kids. Too many religious people
just expect their kids to get it based on the family's commitment to a
church or religious school.

Sorry, morals come from observing your parents in action and how they
react to their child's behavior.

"jps" wrote in message
...

Sorry, morals come from observing your parents in action and how they
react to their child's behavior.

---------------------------------------------------

Yesterday, while in line at the supermarket, I was watching the antics
of a kid and his father who were checking out ahead of me.
I'd say the kid was about 8 or 9 years old and the father appeared to
be in his mid 30's.

The kid was a wise-assed brat. He was climbing up on the carts,
ignoring his father's gentle pleading to get down. In defiance the
brat climbed higher on the cart, glared at the father and said, "I
don't like you, and you can't tell me what to do".

The father continued to gently debate with the little brat, softly
asking him to get down. The kid refused. Finally the father bribed
the little brat with a promise to allow him to watch something on TV
when they got home.

The cashier was an older person (like me) in her 60's. We both stood
there in amazement watching the modern father negotiate with his
little brat.

My wife and I raised two boys and a girl. I disciplined the boys.
Mrs. E. took care of the daughter, mainly because the daughter scared
the bananas out of me. If either or both of the boys had ever acted
like the brat I witnessed in the store, they wouldn't be watching TV
sitting down for a while.
Of course, now-a-days, I'd probably go to jail.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:23:14 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:59 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:14:37 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:26:32 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

From their parents and extended family. We home school our kids in
moral and ethical values. Personal responsibility, eh?

Thank you. You made my point.

Who gives a **** about your point. My point is that you can't
outsource moral training for your kids. Too many religious people
just expect their kids to get it based on the family's commitment to a
church or religious school.

You're absolutely right about not outsourcing moral training. I'd never realized that too many
religious people had those expectations. Do you feel most of our drug and shooting problems are
because religious parents outsourced the teaching of values to their kids.

Sorry, morals come from observing your parents in action and how they
react to their child's behavior.

Great point. Don't know why you feel apologetic about it. I look at the spreadsheet of shootings in
Chicago for last year and wonder - did the majority of the parents of the killers outsource the
teaching of values?

http://tinyurl.com/co9qvch


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:33:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 3:31 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:41:09 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 1:26 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


From their parents, of course. Apparently yours were absent.

I had a strong "religious" upbringing and I had parents with strong
basic values. Too bad you didn't.

Exactly. So the religious aspect of jps' post was simply a little slam at religion. Totally
unnecessary. I'm glad you had the parents with strong basic values. Actually, my parents, like
yours, had strong basic values. I was just much less able to practice them as well as you.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


It's not apparent you practice them at all and, oh, by the way, your
church just elected a pope who doesn't share your values. The new pope,
Bergoglio, is known for personal humility, doctrinal conservatism and a
commitment to social justice. A simple lifestyle has contributed to his
reputation for humility. He lives in a small apartment, rather than in
the palatial bishop's residence. He gave up his chauffeured limousine in
favor of public transportation, and he reportedly cooks his own meals.

Not a guy who thinks much of Mitt Romney or the GOP.


Well, you know what they say, "Appearances are deceiving." I'm thrilled that you think so highly of
the new Pope. Actually, he and I have a lot in common. We share doctrinal conservatism
(anti-abortion, etc.), definitely believe in a simple lifestyle (can't afford any other!), hold
social justice in high regard, don't live in a McMansion, don't have any limousine, let alone a
chauffeur, and we both cook our own meals! He's spectacular.

Has he already discussed his politics?


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!

On 3/13/13 5:04 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:33:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 3:31 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:41:09 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 1:26 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


From their parents, of course. Apparently yours were absent.

I had a strong "religious" upbringing and I had parents with strong
basic values. Too bad you didn't.

Exactly. So the religious aspect of jps' post was simply a little slam at religion. Totally
unnecessary. I'm glad you had the parents with strong basic values. Actually, my parents, like
yours, had strong basic values. I was just much less able to practice them as well as you.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


It's not apparent you practice them at all and, oh, by the way, your
church just elected a pope who doesn't share your values. The new pope,
Bergoglio, is known for personal humility, doctrinal conservatism and a
commitment to social justice. A simple lifestyle has contributed to his
reputation for humility. He lives in a small apartment, rather than in
the palatial bishop's residence. He gave up his chauffeured limousine in
favor of public transportation, and he reportedly cooks his own meals.

Not a guy who thinks much of Mitt Romney or the GOP.


Well, you know what they say, "Appearances are deceiving." I'm thrilled that you think so highly of
the new Pope. Actually, he and I have a lot in common. We share doctrinal conservatism
(anti-abortion, etc.), definitely believe in a simple lifestyle (can't afford any other!), hold
social justice in high regard, don't live in a McMansion, don't have any limousine, let alone a
chauffeur, and we both cook our own meals! He's spectacular.

Has he already discussed his politics?


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!



It's perfectly OK with me if the new pope is anti-abortion, so long as
he and his church don't try to shove that belief on our non-religious
society and country. I think you are either lying about your feelings
about social justice, or have a complete different definition in mind
than the usual one.

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:38:02 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 3:36 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:11:23 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:24:58 -0700, Urin Asshole
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:26:32 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

How about parents? How about laws? You need a mythical being to tell
you what's right and wrong?? You're claiming that you wouldn't have
any moral compass without a god to direct you??

Parables and fantasies are much more effective at teaching kids how to
live an ethically centered life.

My kids are still in the me, me, me stage but they're still not as
selfish as the wingers in rec.boats.

So why the slam at religion? It obviously has very little to do with the inheritance of values.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


If religion has very little to do with the inheritance of values, then
what purpose does it serve?

Actually, I was being a tad sarcastic, but in a Christian sort of way - not trying to offend anyone.
If nothing else, just remember that Notre Dame has had great football teams, and Georgetown
University is doing quite well in basketball! I expect, if you did a little searching, you'd find
that religion has influenced or caused a tremendous amount of good in this world - along with some
bad of course.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:07:00 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 5:04 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:33:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 3:31 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:41:09 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/13/13 1:26 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:21:26 -0700, jps wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:43:46 -0400, J Herring
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:07:37 -0700, jps wrote:



A 14-year-old student at a Christian academy in Washington state has
been charged with attempted murder for allegedly shooting both of his

Thank God Muslims, Jews, and Secular Progressive Liberals never engage in such behavior!


Salmonbait

Attending a religiious school, you'd expect that experience and the
religious following of his parents to impart some basic values.

This kid hadn't developed enough sense to understand that killing his
parents would not lead to more freedom and time on his xbox.

He'll have time alright, not so much freedom.

And WTF is up with being able to pry the gun storage open?

And from where do those without the benefit of a religious upbringing acquire their basic values?

(Be careful now. You're about to step in it.)


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


From their parents, of course. Apparently yours were absent.

I had a strong "religious" upbringing and I had parents with strong
basic values. Too bad you didn't.

Exactly. So the religious aspect of jps' post was simply a little slam at religion. Totally
unnecessary. I'm glad you had the parents with strong basic values. Actually, my parents, like
yours, had strong basic values. I was just much less able to practice them as well as you.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!


It's not apparent you practice them at all and, oh, by the way, your
church just elected a pope who doesn't share your values. The new pope,
Bergoglio, is known for personal humility, doctrinal conservatism and a
commitment to social justice. A simple lifestyle has contributed to his
reputation for humility. He lives in a small apartment, rather than in
the palatial bishop's residence. He gave up his chauffeured limousine in
favor of public transportation, and he reportedly cooks his own meals.

Not a guy who thinks much of Mitt Romney or the GOP.


Well, you know what they say, "Appearances are deceiving." I'm thrilled that you think so highly of
the new Pope. Actually, he and I have a lot in common. We share doctrinal conservatism
(anti-abortion, etc.), definitely believe in a simple lifestyle (can't afford any other!), hold
social justice in high regard, don't live in a McMansion, don't have any limousine, let alone a
chauffeur, and we both cook our own meals! He's spectacular.

Has he already discussed his politics?


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!



It's perfectly OK with me if the new pope is anti-abortion, so long as
he and his church don't try to shove that belief on our non-religious
society and country. I think you are either lying about your feelings
about social justice, or have a complete different definition in mind
than the usual one.


I try hard not to lie. I think the Pope probably believes that a baby's life is precious, and
therefore abortion is wrong. Hopefully he'll spread the word about how precious is the life of a
baby.


Salmonbait

--
Hope you're having a spectacular day!