On 12/21/12 10:10 PM, thumper wrote:
On 12/21/2012 8:55 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/21/2012 11:47 AM, thumper wrote:
On 12/21/2012 5:48 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 19:34:59 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 12/18/2012 9:53 PM, Califbill wrote:
ESAD wrote:
Let's not forget that Nadal Hassan shot 43 people, 13 fatally, at
Fort
Hood, a facility filled with armed and trained people.
Approximately 214
shots were fired (Hassan had another 177 rounds on him when
captured). He
was attacked by three different soldiers, all of whom he shot. It
was not
until a civilian police officer arrived some time later that Hassan
was
shot and wounded. If the army can't stop a guy like this, how is a
kindergarten teacher supposed to?

It was a gun control area. Nobody was allowed to carry weapons. The
people were trained, but not armed. Most bases in the states have
the
weapons in the armory. I was stationed on an airbase, Travis, that
had APs
at the gates and the only other armed people were the guards out on
B52
line.

That's interesting. All those trained people. More guns = more
safety... why don't they trust them?

Only Military Police/CID or equivalent carry weapons on a continuous
basis while on duty in military
installations, unless the installation is in a combat zone. The
weapons are kept in unit armories
and issued when necessary for training - or when needed for a
particular problem.

Why aren't they issued all the time? It could have something to do
with trust. The military does not
want a weapon stolen, misplaced, left unattended at home, or any of
the other things that can cause
accidents. There is always a dummy in every crowd, and the military
does have a thief or two in its
population. I look back at 'Project 100,000' and some of the folks we
got then, and I didn't even
want to issue some of those folks weapons for alerts or training.

So, there you have it.

But, like ESAD, if you see a chance to take a swipe at the military,
please go for it.


On the contrary, the military seems to get it regarding weapon safety
and yet some of you want to flood the schools and shopping malls with
gun toting amateur security guards ostensibly in the belief it would
reduce injuries and deaths. Unless it's actually about selling more
guns?


You are losing all credibility here, even though I am more or less in
the middle on this one... Nobody at all here said anything about
"flooding schools.... *amateur security guards*". I am the only one here
who suggested armed guards and I specifically suggested seasoned,
trained, police officers in plain clothes, and I was very specific. If
you keep coming here and making up loogieisms as arguments, you are not
going to get anywhere.

You're right, I exaggerated to make a point and wasn't specifically
addressing you (this isn't about you or me).

I don't think they'll ever get anywhere near enough *qualified*
ex-police/military retirees to staff the nations schools with security
guards. Can you imagine a more boring and uneventful job? Do you
really think adding janitorial or cafeteria tasks will sweeten the pot?
Who's going to fund this by the way... the NRA?

I'm also not impressed by the tactical skills or marksmanship of the
average police officer. Fire away...


I'm afraid you are correct. I see "average" police officers at the
shooting range several times a month. A very few have extraordinary
handgun skills, but most are mediocre shots, even at the "typical"
defensive range of seven yards. Not enough paid time to practice?

On 12/22/2012 4:13 AM, ESAD wrote:
On 12/21/12 10:10 PM, thumper wrote:

I'm also not impressed by the tactical skills or marksmanship of the
average police officer. Fire away...

I'm afraid you are correct. I see "average" police officers at the
shooting range several times a month. A very few have extraordinary
handgun skills, but most are mediocre shots, even at the "typical"
defensive range of seven yards. Not enough paid time to practice?

And those are the ones at the range practicing.

thumper wrote:
On 12/22/2012 4:13 AM, ESAD wrote:
On 12/21/12 10:10 PM, thumper wrote:

I'm also not impressed by the tactical skills or marksmanship of the
average police officer. Fire away...

I'm afraid you are correct. I see "average" police officers at the
shooting range several times a month. A very few have extraordinary
handgun skills, but most are mediocre shots, even at the "typical"
defensive range of seven yards. Not enough paid time to practice?

And those are the ones at the range practicing.

I think a practice session every so often is required

On 12/22/2012 2:04 PM, thumper wrote:
On 12/22/2012 4:13 AM, ESAD wrote:
On 12/21/12 10:10 PM, thumper wrote:

I'm also not impressed by the tactical skills or marksmanship of the
average police officer. Fire away...

I'm afraid you are correct. I see "average" police officers at the
shooting range several times a month. A very few have extraordinary
handgun skills, but most are mediocre shots, even at the "typical"
defensive range of seven yards. Not enough paid time to practice?

And those are the ones at the range practicing.


It's not so much the marksmanship of them I am worried about, I am sure
most are at least as good as some kid who spent his life learning to
shoot with a gameboy in his hand... Either way, it's the training around
the firearms I am looking for. Conflict resolution, domestic violence
experience, ability to stop a violent situation without violence....

On 12/22/2012 1:10 PM, JustWait wrote:

It's not so much the marksmanship of them I am worried about, I am sure
most are at least as good as some kid who spent his life learning to
shoot with a gameboy in his hand... Either way, it's the training around
the firearms I am looking for. Conflict resolution, domestic violence
experience, ability to stop a violent situation without violence....

Perhaps I should give them more credit for those abilities. I hear
about the tragic exceptions but have no idea how many potentially tragic
incidences are avoided and unreported. The incidents that I have been
personally familiar with have not left a good impression with one exception.

On 12/22/2012 5:59 PM, thumper wrote:
On 12/22/2012 1:10 PM, JustWait wrote:

It's not so much the marksmanship of them I am worried about, I am sure
most are at least as good as some kid who spent his life learning to
shoot with a gameboy in his hand... Either way, it's the training around
the firearms I am looking for. Conflict resolution, domestic violence
experience, ability to stop a violent situation without violence....

Perhaps I should give them more credit for those abilities. I hear
about the tragic exceptions but have no idea how many potentially tragic
incidences are avoided and unreported. The incidents that I have been
personally familiar with have not left a good impression with one
exception.

I have lived in the inner city... You see what these guys are capable of
tolerating situations and how "professional" they can remain after..

On Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:31:33 PM UTC-4, JustWait wrote:
On 12/22/2012 5:59 PM, thumper wrote:

On 12/22/2012 1:10 PM, JustWait wrote:



It's not so much the marksmanship of them I am worried about, I am sure

most are at least as good as some kid who spent his life learning to

shoot with a gameboy in his hand... Either way, it's the training around

the firearms I am looking for. Conflict resolution, domestic violence

experience, ability to stop a violent situation without violence....



Perhaps I should give them more credit for those abilities. I hear

about the tragic exceptions but have no idea how many potentially tragic

incidences are avoided and unreported. The incidents that I have been

personally familiar with have not left a good impression with one

exception.



I have lived in the inner city... You see what these guys are capable of

tolerating situations and how "professional" they can remain after..

Just a short while ago you were in here badmouthing police...complaining About corruption and being robbed of hour drug money plus being shoved down a staircase.
Now you are positively drooling over retired cops.
You are a fickle little fillie

On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 18:36:48 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:31:33 PM UTC-4, JustWait wrote:
On 12/22/2012 5:59 PM, thumper wrote:

On 12/22/2012 1:10 PM, JustWait wrote:



It's not so much the marksmanship of them I am worried about, I am sure

most are at least as good as some kid who spent his life learning to

shoot with a gameboy in his hand... Either way, it's the training around

the firearms I am looking for. Conflict resolution, domestic violence

experience, ability to stop a violent situation without violence....



Perhaps I should give them more credit for those abilities. I hear

about the tragic exceptions but have no idea how many potentially tragic

incidences are avoided and unreported. The incidents that I have been

personally familiar with have not left a good impression with one

exception.



I have lived in the inner city... You see what these guys are capable of

tolerating situations and how "professional" they can remain after..

Just a short while ago you were in here badmouthing police...complaining About corruption and being robbed of hour drug money plus being shoved down a staircase.
Now you are positively drooling over retired cops.
You are a fickle little fillie

Can there not be good cops and bad cops?

Is it dark up there?

In article , says...

On 12/22/2012 2:04 PM, thumper wrote:
On 12/22/2012 4:13 AM, ESAD wrote:
On 12/21/12 10:10 PM, thumper wrote:

I'm also not impressed by the tactical skills or marksmanship of the
average police officer. Fire away...

I'm afraid you are correct. I see "average" police officers at the
shooting range several times a month. A very few have extraordinary
handgun skills, but most are mediocre shots, even at the "typical"
defensive range of seven yards. Not enough paid time to practice?

And those are the ones at the range practicing.


It's not so much the marksmanship of them I am worried about, I am sure
most are at least as good as some kid who spent his life learning to
shoot with a gameboy in his hand... Either way, it's the training around
the firearms I am looking for. Conflict resolution, domestic violence
experience, ability to stop a violent situation without violence....

Okay, how does the above bull**** coincide with the CT shooter?