Relax, I am not trying to flame you. My point is (and I thought it
was clear) that if it doesn't cost you a thing, and it is something
you enjoy doing (like saling), then why not lend a hand?

If in your world you have to pay to everyone who helps you, then you
must live in a rather unfriendly place. Most sailing communities that
I know will be happy to lend a hand here and there... Hey, even in the
fleet where I race, after the ragatas, competitors meet to exchange
tips and the like, not that different from this forum.


P.S. Constructive criticism: Your sarcasm lacks subtlety, making it
look crass instead of sharp.

On 20 Jul 2003 15:56:35 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Okay, next week you come and polish my boat for me, for I am indeed "part of
the sailing community". After that change the oil, make me some weathercloths,
run to West Marine and get me a new bbq, then take my aluminum propane tank and
get it inspected, a OPD installed and then fill it. After that, go me a couple
weeks provisions (only four star Cognac please) and shop for a new SSB

Geesh dude/ette, you REALLY believe you are a slave for any and everyone who
shows up because he is "part of the sailing community".

Sorry dude. You want me to work on your boat fixing the engine, the sails, the
woodwork **OR** delivering it to the port of your choice you gotta pay me for
my expertise. Unless, of course, we have really have been friends (or mates,
as those who live where South is up would have it). Then certainly I'd be glad
to help.

But you, as in YOU, are not a friend. You can't fix your engine, etc. you
gotta pay the going rate.

Get used to it.

Where I come from, if you are part of the sailing community, then you
are not a stranger anymore. If more of the "mates helping mates"
filosophy was used, we will be a better world. Your kind of thinking
makes me think that the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" was right
on the mark regarding the USA.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Okay, next week you come and polish my boat for me, for I am indeed "part
of
the sailing community". After that change the oil, make me some
weathercloths,
run to West Marine and get me a new bbq, then take my aluminum propane
tank and
get it inspected, a OPD installed and then fill it. After that, go me a
couple
weeks provisions (only four star Cognac please) and shop for a new SSB

Geesh dude/ette, you REALLY believe you are a slave for any and everyone
who
shows up because he is "part of the sailing community".

I think you misunderstand the concept JAXA.

If you asked me to do any of the above, which is obvious that no one likes
doing, then you would have to be a very good friend for me to do it for
nothing. After all you don't want to do it because it is one of those jobs
that everyone dislikes doing, so you either pay someone to do it, or you
grin and bare it and get stuck into it.

But when it comes to helping a fellow sailor sail their boat from point A to
point b, which is an enjoyable experience (depending on weather and boat of
course) then why not help if you can?
The same goes for helping another motorist in need, or giving the next door
neighbour a lift to the garage to pick up their car.

Just because someone is part of the sailing community doesn't mean we are
all slaves to that person, but it does say to me "Hey we are like distant
brothers. If I can help you in any way I will, as long as it doesn't cost me
anything to help."

It's just like a lot of the advice we all get from other people on this
newsgroup. I can ask a technical question and get some very good advice from
fellow sailors and it cost's me nothing, or I could go to a boating
specialist and pay them $60 per hour for the same advice.

I have done heaps in the past to help out my sailing friends, including
flying a Cesna 172 to a friends house 200 miles away to pick up his son who
was sailing in a regatta that weekend (along with my son) and his dad could
not get him there. (Sure this actually cost me money to do, but I was going
for a practice navigation excercise anyway so I just included their town in
the navigation excercise.)

I have helped friends repair their boats many times and I have also helped
another fellow sailor sail his 50 foot catamaran from Vanuatu back to
Australia.

I never asked for any payment in return for any of this, I was happy to help
out. Yet if a total stranger, who also owned a sailing boat, came up and
asked me if I could scrape the bottom of his hulls clean for him, my first
question would be "what is it worth?"

The $$ figure is comparable to the enjoyment factor I would get from
helping.

To help sail your boat: FREE
To scrape the bottom of the same boat: $50 per hour.

Regards
--
Garry Beattie
Ocean Spirit Trailer Sailer &
Small Yacht Cruising Emagazine
www.ocean-spirit.com

Good post Jax,

It was a pleasent surprise to see your name again. Especially to a good
post

Ole Thom

cabages and pixie dust you are comparing.

Relax, I am not trying to flame you. My point is (and I thought it
was clear) that if it doesn't cost you a thing, and it is something
you enjoy doing (like saling), then why not lend a hand?

If in your world you have to pay to everyone who helps you, then you
must live in a rather unfriendly place. Most sailing communities that
I know will be happy to lend a hand here and there... Hey, even in the
fleet where I race, after the ragatas, competitors meet to exchange
tips and the like, not that different from this forum.


P.S. Constructive criticism: Your sarcasm lacks subtlety, making it
look crass instead of sharp.

On 20 Jul 2003 15:56:35 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

Okay, next week you come and polish my boat for me, for I am indeed "part of
the sailing community". After that change the oil, make me some
weathercloths,
run to West Marine and get me a new bbq, then take my aluminum propane tank
and
get it inspected, a OPD installed and then fill it. After that, go me a
couple
weeks provisions (only four star Cognac please) and shop for a new SSB

Geesh dude/ette, you REALLY believe you are a slave for any and everyone who
shows up because he is "part of the sailing community".

Sorry dude. You want me to work on your boat fixing the engine, the sails,
the
woodwork **OR** delivering it to the port of your choice you gotta pay me
for
my expertise. Unless, of course, we have really have been friends (or
mates,
as those who live where South is up would have it). Then certainly I'd be
glad
to help.

But you, as in YOU, are not a friend. You can't fix your engine, etc. you
gotta pay the going rate.

Get used to it.

Where I come from, if you are part of the sailing community, then you
are not a stranger anymore. If more of the "mates helping mates"
filosophy was used, we will be a better world. Your kind of thinking
makes me think that the documentary "Bowling for Columbine" was right
on the mark regarding the USA.

I have helped move a lot of boats "just for the experience", when I was a
newbie with newbie experience.

Somewhat after the original poster, someone came along and insisted *I* (as in
me personally) were a cretin because I was unwilling to fly cross country at my
expense to a boat, then spend several days moving it, then fly back home, again
at my expense.

Anyone who I don't know who wants that help from me has to pay me for my time,
and that is fair, in the same manner that a stranger wants me to fix his engine
or repair his sails. If someone wants free help they get help that is not
worth enough to be purchased.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Okay, next week you come and polish my boat for me, for I am indeed "part
of
the sailing community". After that change the oil, make me some
weathercloths,
run to West Marine and get me a new bbq, then take my aluminum propane
tank and
get it inspected, a OPD installed and then fill it. After that, go me a
couple
weeks provisions (only four star Cognac please) and shop for a new SSB

Geesh dude/ette, you REALLY believe you are a slave for any and everyone
who
shows up because he is "part of the sailing community".

I think you misunderstand the concept JAXA.

If you asked me to do any of the above, which is obvious that no one likes
doing, then you would have to be a very good friend for me to do it for
nothing. After all you don't want to do it because it is one of those jobs
that everyone dislikes doing, so you either pay someone to do it, or you
grin and bare it and get stuck into it.

But when it comes to helping a fellow sailor sail their boat from point A to
point b, which is an enjoyable experience (depending on weather and boat of
course) then why not help if you can?
The same goes for helping another motorist in need, or giving the next door
neighbour a lift to the garage to pick up their car.

Just because someone is part of the sailing community doesn't mean we are
all slaves to that person, but it does say to me "Hey we are like distant
brothers. If I can help you in any way I will, as long as it doesn't cost me
anything to help."

It's just like a lot of the advice we all get from other people on this
newsgroup. I can ask a technical question and get some very good advice from
fellow sailors and it cost's me nothing, or I could go to a boating
specialist and pay them $60 per hour for the same advice.

I have done heaps in the past to help out my sailing friends, including
flying a Cesna 172 to a friends house 200 miles away to pick up his son who
was sailing in a regatta that weekend (along with my son) and his dad could
not get him there. (Sure this actually cost me money to do, but I was going
for a practice navigation excercise anyway so I just included their town in
the navigation excercise.)

I have helped friends repair their boats many times and I have also helped
another fellow sailor sail his 50 foot catamaran from Vanuatu back to
Australia.

I never asked for any payment in return for any of this, I was happy to help
out. Yet if a total stranger, who also owned a sailing boat, came up and
asked me if I could scrape the bottom of his hulls clean for him, my first
question would be "what is it worth?"

The $$ figure is comparable to the enjoyment factor I would get from
helping.

To help sail your boat: FREE
To scrape the bottom of the same boat: $50 per hour.

Regards
--
Garry Beattie
Ocean Spirit Trailer Sailer &
Small Yacht Cruising Emagazine
www.ocean-spirit.com

Plus expenses


On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:24:51 GMT, "BradH"
wrote:

I live in Hawaii and am considering purchasing a 30' sailboat in San Diego.
Does anyone have a guess how much I will have to pay someone to sail it to
Honolulu. I am planning on flying there and sailing also so no additional
hands would be required. Then paying the "Captain" to fly back to CA.

Any input is helpful.

Brad

blh72@hotmail dot com

I live in California too and you are correct. Even most of the sailors
wouldn't help you here there is just no culture. Selfish, dumb and arrogant
is the normality here.

Wolf
"Gene Park" wrote in message
news:XRGRa.85353$H17.26807@sccrnsc02...
It all depends; I a native northwesterner, (State of Washington) and where
I
come from a neighbour, who though they may live several miles away, know
that they can stop in for a cup of coffee and a jaw, or of one of
neighbours
needs help, everyone shows up to help.
Now I live in California and a neighbour is the stranger next door and are
wary if not terrified of everyone else.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
Garry Beattie wrote:

Gee, that's a different way to how we look at things.

In Australia it's called mates rates. Friends helping friends.

If a sailing buddy needs help then, if you can, offer to help without
sticking your hand out for $$ in return. The golden rule is 'as long
as
it
doesn't cost you anything'.

Perhaps Australia is one of the few places where people still help
each
other out??


Everybody everywhere helps friends but as countries become ever more
crowded, individuals have fewer and fewer friends. In a small town, most
everybody you know is a friend you help and count on. In a big city
where people won't even report a neighbor being murdered, someone in
need is an opportunity to make money. Look at the way medicine is
practiced. Sorry!

The U.S. was like Oz just 50 years ago. Keep having babies and you'll
catch up ...

People like Jax are exactly the kind you find in California. No sense of
community and always so right.
My neighbor (and friend) has an airplane and of course I help him with
cleaning, oil change, etc..... then we hang out or go flying.

Must be a strange concept for you?

Wolf
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Good post Jax,

It was a pleasent surprise to see your name again. Especially to a good
post

Ole Thom

wuffie, you be a user, **ANNDDD** you _like_ being used.

you like the boys to whip you with leather belts as well?

People like Jax are exactly the kind you find in California. No sense of
community and always so right.
My neighbor (and friend) has an airplane and of course I help him with
cleaning, oil change, etc..... then we hang out or go flying.

Must be a strange concept for you?

Wolf
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Good post Jax,

It was a pleasent surprise to see your name again. Especially to a good
post

Ole Thom