In article ,
says...

On 12/7/12 8:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:43:56 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/7/12 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 08:57:13 -0500, ESAD wrote:

U.S. Added 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Fell to 7.7%
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
NY Times

The government said Friday that employment growth was much better than
expected in November, with the United States economy adding 146,000 jobs
and the unemployment rate falling to 7.7 percent.

The jobless rate was the lowest since December 2008. Economists had
estimated the Labor Department would report that only 86,000 jobs were
created in November and that the rate of unemployment would remain flat
at 7.9 percent.

The strength of the numbers was all the more notable because many
experts expected a muted jobs performance because of the impact of
Hurricane Sandy, which hit the East Coast on Oct. 31.

The Labor Department revised its job growth figures for October and
September downward.

Still, November?s net growth in payrolls was below the average of
170,000 new jobs added monthly over the course of August, September and
October.

?The labor market is very much in the recovery stage,? said Ethan
Harris, co-head of global economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch,
before the announcement. However, he added, ?It?s a long way from full
health with workers having little negotiating power when it comes to
raises.?

Average hourly earnings in November rose 0.2 percent, the report showed.

Manufacturing jobs fell by 7,000. Economists have been closely watching
the sector amid weak demand from Europe and signs that businesses in the
United States are holding off on spending ahead of the fiscal impasse in
Washington.

- - -

Pretty soon the economy will improve to the point where Scotty will be
able to get a job emptying the outdoor trash cans at McDonald's.



I wonder what January will bring. I certainly do not see much good
coming out of this cliff debate. Nobody is really willing to attack
the deficit in any meaningful way. The GOP saying nobody's taxes
should go up is as stupid as thinking bumping up the tax on the 2%
will actually fix anything. The tax hike on the $250k people barely
covers 68% of the FICA tax cut and leaves us bleeding worse than we
were.
It is definitely not going to save Social Security.


I don't recall reading where it was supposed to do that.

Pray tell then, what is all this cliff bull**** all about if it is not
trying to balance the budget.

If this is simply to punish the successful for no good purpose, then I
agree with Boehner.
We really need massive cuts along with an across the board tax hike,
perhaps to Clinton rates, maybe even Reagan rates but that has to be
matched by cuts.
I know it will be hard and we may be in recession again but a recovery
would be real, not just another spike put on the credit card.
We are going to eat this turd sooner or later, better sooner when we
can have a bit of wiggle room than later when we are simply against
the wall like Greece..



The solution for Social Security will be a long-term solution, not
something that will be negotiated or forced in the next few weeks.

A solution might be to get rid of the upper limit on income subject to
SS taxes and to means test payments.

When the government goes bankrupt then the problem will be solved.

Or shoud we be borrowing $2 to pay out $1?

ESAD wrote:
On 12/7/12 8:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:43:56 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/7/12 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 08:57:13 -0500, ESAD wrote:

U.S. Added 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Fell to 7.7%
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
NY Times

The government said Friday that employment growth was much better than
expected in November, with the United States economy adding 146,000 jobs
and the unemployment rate falling to 7.7 percent.

The jobless rate was the lowest since December 2008. Economists had
estimated the Labor Department would report that only 86,000 jobs were
created in November and that the rate of unemployment would remain flat
at 7.9 percent.

The strength of the numbers was all the more notable because many
experts expected a muted jobs performance because of the impact of
Hurricane Sandy, which hit the East Coast on Oct. 31.

The Labor Department revised its job growth figures for October and
September downward.

Still, November’s net growth in payrolls was below the average of
170,000 new jobs added monthly over the course of August, September and
October.

“The labor market is very much in the recovery stage,� said Ethan
Harris, co-head of global economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch,
before the announcement. However, he added, “It’s a long way from full
health with workers having little negotiating power when it comes to
raises.�

Average hourly earnings in November rose 0.2 percent, the report showed.

Manufacturing jobs fell by 7,000. Economists have been closely watching
the sector amid weak demand from Europe and signs that businesses in the
United States are holding off on spending ahead of the fiscal impasse in
Washington.

- - -

Pretty soon the economy will improve to the point where Scotty will be
able to get a job emptying the outdoor trash cans at McDonald's.



I wonder what January will bring. I certainly do not see much good
coming out of this cliff debate. Nobody is really willing to attack
the deficit in any meaningful way. The GOP saying nobody's taxes
should go up is as stupid as thinking bumping up the tax on the 2%
will actually fix anything. The tax hike on the $250k people barely
covers 68% of the FICA tax cut and leaves us bleeding worse than we
were.
It is definitely not going to save Social Security.


I don't recall reading where it was supposed to do that.

Pray tell then, what is all this cliff bull**** all about if it is not
trying to balance the budget.

If this is simply to punish the successful for no good purpose, then I
agree with Boehner.
We really need massive cuts along with an across the board tax hike,
perhaps to Clinton rates, maybe even Reagan rates but that has to be
matched by cuts.
I know it will be hard and we may be in recession again but a recovery
would be real, not just another spike put on the credit card.
We are going to eat this turd sooner or later, better sooner when we
can have a bit of wiggle room than later when we are simply against
the wall like Greece..



The solution for Social Security will be a long-term solution, not
something that will be negotiated or forced in the next few weeks.

A solution might be to get rid of the upper limit on income subject to SS
taxes and to means test payments.

Then SS is just another revenue enhancer for the Federal Government. Maybe
go back somewhat to the original SS program. The Widows and Children's
Act.. Not the national retirement plan.

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 21:46:11 -0600, Califbill
wrote:


Then SS is just another revenue enhancer for the Federal Government.
Maybe
go back somewhat to the original SS program. The Widows and
Children's
Act.. Not the national retirement plan.

SS will never be back in the black in our lifetimes

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was just reading about Social Security during the Clinton era after
watching and listening to Al Sharpton gloat about the "300 billion
dollar surplus" that Clinton left the treasury with when he left
office. Talk about voodoo economics.

The SS fund ran up a $236B surplus during his presidency due to a
booming dot com industry, low unemployment and relatively high wages.
By law, the surplus has to be put into US securities for future SS
claims. It's money still "owed" by the government, not really a
surplus.

They simply used the SS balance to offset some of the increases in
the national debt ... on paper only. The debt still rose by 18
billion, but didn't look as bad if they didn't erroneously include the
SS balance. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors and creative
accounting, but leaves Clinton with a shining legacy and something for
Big Al, Rachel and Lawrence to brag about.

In article ,
says...

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 21:46:11 -0600, Califbill
wrote:


Then SS is just another revenue enhancer for the Federal Government.
Maybe
go back somewhat to the original SS program. The Widows and
Children's
Act.. Not the national retirement plan.

SS will never be back in the black in our lifetimes

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was just reading about Social Security during the Clinton era after
watching and listening to Al Sharpton gloat about the "300 billion
dollar surplus" that Clinton left the treasury with when he left
office. Talk about voodoo economics.

The SS fund ran up a $236B surplus during his presidency due to a
booming dot com industry, low unemployment and relatively high wages.
By law, the surplus has to be put into US securities for future SS
claims. It's money still "owed" by the government, not really a
surplus.

They simply used the SS balance to offset some of the increases in
the national debt ... on paper only. The debt still rose by 18
billion, but didn't look as bad if they didn't erroneously include the
SS balance. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors and creative
accounting, but leaves Clinton with a shining legacy and something for
Big Al, Rachel and Lawrence to brag about.

I get a kick out of people pushing the idea that Clinton era tax rates
are the solution to our economic problems. What they all fail to realize
is that there is no new technology driving economic activity now but,
there was during Clinton's term.

If Clinton didn't have the dot com boom he would have been just another
Jimmy Carter. Clinton was smart enough to ride the rising tide and take
the accolades for something that he did not induce and did not control.

On 12/8/2012 10:30 AM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 21:46:11 -0600, Califbill
wrote:


Then SS is just another revenue enhancer for the Federal Government.
Maybe
go back somewhat to the original SS program. The Widows and
Children's
Act.. Not the national retirement plan.

SS will never be back in the black in our lifetimes

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was just reading about Social Security during the Clinton era after
watching and listening to Al Sharpton gloat about the "300 billion
dollar surplus" that Clinton left the treasury with when he left
office. Talk about voodoo economics.

The SS fund ran up a $236B surplus during his presidency due to a
booming dot com industry, low unemployment and relatively high wages.
By law, the surplus has to be put into US securities for future SS
claims. It's money still "owed" by the government, not really a
surplus.

They simply used the SS balance to offset some of the increases in
the national debt ... on paper only. The debt still rose by 18
billion, but didn't look as bad if they didn't erroneously include the
SS balance. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors and creative
accounting, but leaves Clinton with a shining legacy and something for
Big Al, Rachel and Lawrence to brag about.

I get a kick out of people pushing the idea that Clinton era tax rates
are the solution to our economic problems. What they all fail to realize
is that there is no new technology driving economic activity now but,
there was during Clinton's term.

If Clinton didn't have the dot com boom he would have been just another
Jimmy Carter. Clinton was smart enough to ride the rising tide and take
the accolades for something that he did not induce and did not control.


Well, that's cause Al Gore "built it"... LOL!

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On 12/7/12 8:42 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 12:43:56 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/7/12 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 08:57:13 -0500, ESAD wrote:

U.S. Added 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Fell to 7.7%
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
NY Times

The government said Friday that employment growth was much better than
expected in November, with the United States economy adding 146,000 jobs
and the unemployment rate falling to 7.7 percent.

The jobless rate was the lowest since December 2008. Economists had
estimated the Labor Department would report that only 86,000 jobs were
created in November and that the rate of unemployment would remain flat
at 7.9 percent.

The strength of the numbers was all the more notable because many
experts expected a muted jobs performance because of the impact of
Hurricane Sandy, which hit the East Coast on Oct. 31.

The Labor Department revised its job growth figures for October and
September downward.

Still, November?s net growth in payrolls was below the average of
170,000 new jobs added monthly over the course of August, September and
October.

?The labor market is very much in the recovery stage,? said Ethan
Harris, co-head of global economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch,
before the announcement. However, he added, ?It?s a long way from full
health with workers having little negotiating power when it comes to
raises.?

Average hourly earnings in November rose 0.2 percent, the report showed.

Manufacturing jobs fell by 7,000. Economists have been closely watching
the sector amid weak demand from Europe and signs that businesses in the
United States are holding off on spending ahead of the fiscal impasse in
Washington.

- - -

Pretty soon the economy will improve to the point where Scotty will be
able to get a job emptying the outdoor trash cans at McDonald's.



I wonder what January will bring. I certainly do not see much good
coming out of this cliff debate. Nobody is really willing to attack
the deficit in any meaningful way. The GOP saying nobody's taxes
should go up is as stupid as thinking bumping up the tax on the 2%
will actually fix anything. The tax hike on the $250k people barely
covers 68% of the FICA tax cut and leaves us bleeding worse than we
were.
It is definitely not going to save Social Security.


I don't recall reading where it was supposed to do that.

Pray tell then, what is all this cliff bull**** all about if it is not
trying to balance the budget.

If this is simply to punish the successful for no good purpose, then I
agree with Boehner.
We really need massive cuts along with an across the board tax hike,
perhaps to Clinton rates, maybe even Reagan rates but that has to be
matched by cuts.
I know it will be hard and we may be in recession again but a recovery
would be real, not just another spike put on the credit card.
We are going to eat this turd sooner or later, better sooner when we
can have a bit of wiggle room than later when we are simply against
the wall like Greece..



The solution for Social Security will be a long-term solution, not
something that will be negotiated or forced in the next few weeks.

A solution might be to get rid of the upper limit on income subject to
SS taxes and to means test payments.

When the government goes bankrupt then the problem will be solved.

Or shoud we be borrowing $2 to pay out $1?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.....

In article , says...

On 12/8/2012 10:30 AM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 21:46:11 -0600, Califbill
wrote:


Then SS is just another revenue enhancer for the Federal Government.
Maybe
go back somewhat to the original SS program. The Widows and
Children's
Act.. Not the national retirement plan.

SS will never be back in the black in our lifetimes

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was just reading about Social Security during the Clinton era after
watching and listening to Al Sharpton gloat about the "300 billion
dollar surplus" that Clinton left the treasury with when he left
office. Talk about voodoo economics.

The SS fund ran up a $236B surplus during his presidency due to a
booming dot com industry, low unemployment and relatively high wages.
By law, the surplus has to be put into US securities for future SS
claims. It's money still "owed" by the government, not really a
surplus.

They simply used the SS balance to offset some of the increases in
the national debt ... on paper only. The debt still rose by 18
billion, but didn't look as bad if they didn't erroneously include the
SS balance. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors and creative
accounting, but leaves Clinton with a shining legacy and something for
Big Al, Rachel and Lawrence to brag about.

I get a kick out of people pushing the idea that Clinton era tax rates
are the solution to our economic problems. What they all fail to realize
is that there is no new technology driving economic activity now but,
there was during Clinton's term.

If Clinton didn't have the dot com boom he would have been just another
Jimmy Carter. Clinton was smart enough to ride the rising tide and take
the accolades for something that he did not induce and did not control.


Well, that's cause Al Gore "built it"... LOL!

You are nothing short of an insane moron.

"BAR" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 21:46:11 -0600, Califbill
wrote:


Then SS is just another revenue enhancer for the Federal
Government.
Maybe
go back somewhat to the original SS program. The Widows and
Children's
Act.. Not the national retirement plan.

SS will never be back in the black in our lifetimes

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I was just reading about Social Security during the Clinton era
after
watching and listening to Al Sharpton gloat about the "300 billion
dollar surplus" that Clinton left the treasury with when he left
office. Talk about voodoo economics.

The SS fund ran up a $236B surplus during his presidency due to a
booming dot com industry, low unemployment and relatively high
wages.
By law, the surplus has to be put into US securities for future SS
claims. It's money still "owed" by the government, not really a
surplus.

They simply used the SS balance to offset some of the increases in
the national debt ... on paper only. The debt still rose by 18
billion, but didn't look as bad if they didn't erroneously include
the
SS balance. It's nothing but smoke and mirrors and creative
accounting, but leaves Clinton with a shining legacy and something
for
Big Al, Rachel and Lawrence to brag about.

I get a kick out of people pushing the idea that Clinton era tax rates
are the solution to our economic problems. What they all fail to
realize
is that there is no new technology driving economic activity now but,
there was during Clinton's term.

If Clinton didn't have the dot com boom he would have been just
another
Jimmy Carter. Clinton was smart enough to ride the rising tide and
take
the accolades for something that he did not induce and did not
control.

---------------------------------------------

You are 100 percent correct. Bill Clinton is a consummate
politician. I actually like him and even voted for him once.
But the stories about his "surplus" is pure BS.

On 12/7/2012 7:57 AM, ESAD wrote:
U.S. Added 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Fell to 7.7%
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ
NY Times

The government said Friday that employment growth was much better than
expected in November, with the United States economy adding 146,000 jobs
and the unemployment rate falling to 7.7 percent.

The Labor Department revised its job growth figures for October and
September downward.

Still, November’s net growth in payrolls was below the average of
170,000 new jobs added monthly over the course of August, September and
October.

The problem is, over 300,000 people turned 18yrs old in Dec. How many
of those do you think need jobs?
Those people aren't counted as unemployed because they were never
employed so the aren't on the unemployment rolls. Also the 300,000 does
not include immigrants legal or illegal.

From an ABC story;
Companies added 146,000 jobs, and the unemployment rate fell to 7.7
percent — the lowest in nearly four years — from 7.9 percent in October.
The rate declined "MAINLY BECAUSE PEOPLE STOPPED LOOKING FOR WORK" and
weren't counted as unemployed.

Last I saw 76% of all jobs create were government jobs.
mIKEK