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Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
.. .

We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

No loans, very little money invested outside of the prinicipals, all
profits plunged back into R&D. I hope to experience a similar day to
yours, before I keel over or move into an old folks home.

Love reading your story, thanks for sharing.

One difference I'll point out between venture vs. vulture. Venture
capitalists are more interested in making successes of their bets,
vultures don't care where the profits come from, even if it's the
company pension plan or burying the company in debt, the cash from
which is paid out to the vulture capital firm.

------------------------------------------------------------------

One thing I always believed (at the risk of it sounding like Mitt
Romney).

Treat the company as if it's a person. Guide it, nurture it, grow it,
protect it.
If you take care of the company, the company will take care of you and
it's employees.
The "company" becomes the personification of all the people within it,
and they will prosper as the company does.

As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.

Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 21:30:45 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
.. .

We see the world in a very similar way. I've built my company in the
same fashion but the dollar value of our product isn't as high, as
we're in corporate instead of defense.

----------------------------------------

Be careful of what you claim to have built. Not politically correct
now-a-days.

:-)

Oh, I built it alright. But I also recognize that I'd have had little
chance of success without the investment we've all made in US
infrastructure. Public, higher ed is responsible for the brain trust
that makes our company's products. The internet helps us market our
products and conduct efficient communications. Our shipments go out
over road and bridges we all bought.

I pay plenty of taxes but I didn't build the infrastructure that
supports my company.

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)

"jps" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.

Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

--------------------------------------------

Ok. I guess I have to plead being recently guilty. A couple of
weeks ago, I took an Eric Johnson Signature Series Fender Stratocaster
in trade.
On the used market, they typically sell for between $1,100 and $1,200
in excellent condition and with the original Fender case.

This one was in excellent condition, but did not have the original
case. That de-values it to probably about $900 - $1,000.

So, I took it all apart and sold the parts individually on eBay. This
was the first time I ever tried this. Body, neck, hardware,
pickguard (with pickups and controls), neck plate, tremolo system,
etc., everything except the non-original case, which I kept. Netted
a total of $1,600 selling the parts individually. :-)

I got the idea from a guy I know who has been doing this for years as
a retirement business with his wife. He buys vintage and
non-vintage guitars cheap, parts them out, and sells the parts on
eBay. He averages about $200K a year in revenues with a total cost
(not including his time, which isn't that much) of about $25K - $30K.
The post office even supplies him with free shipping boxes and
packaging. Not a bad little retirement business.

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)

Eisboch wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.

Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

--------------------------------------------

Ok. I guess I have to plead being recently guilty. A couple of
weeks ago, I took an Eric Johnson Signature Series Fender Stratocaster
in trade.
On the used market, they typically sell for between $1,100 and $1,200
in excellent condition and with the original Fender case.

This one was in excellent condition, but did not have the original
case. That de-values it to probably about $900 - $1,000.

So, I took it all apart and sold the parts individually on eBay. This
was the first time I ever tried this. Body, neck, hardware,
pickguard (with pickups and controls), neck plate, tremolo system,
etc., everything except the non-original case, which I kept. Netted a
total of $1,600 selling the parts individually. :-)

I got the idea from a guy I know who has been doing this for years as
a retirement business with his wife. He buys vintage and non-vintage
guitars cheap, parts them out, and sells the parts on eBay. He
averages about $200K a year in revenues with a total cost (not
including his time, which isn't that much) of about $25K - $30K. The
post office even supplies him with free shipping boxes and
packaging. Not a bad little retirement business.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:22:28 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
.. .

On Wed, 5 Dec 2012 20:56:04 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

As for venture versus vultu

Venture Capitalists are the good guys when the company is growing and
needs financing.
Vulture Capitalists are the same guys when things turn to ****.

Not sure about that. Negative capitalism is a pursuit. There are
plenty of guys out there looking to acquire companies whose assets are
worth more than their market value. They're experts at dismantling
companies in order to sell their parts.

I assume every once in a while they come across something worth
saving.

--------------------------------------------

Ok. I guess I have to plead being recently guilty. A couple of
weeks ago, I took an Eric Johnson Signature Series Fender Stratocaster
in trade.
On the used market, they typically sell for between $1,100 and $1,200
in excellent condition and with the original Fender case.

This one was in excellent condition, but did not have the original
case. That de-values it to probably about $900 - $1,000.

So, I took it all apart and sold the parts individually on eBay. This
was the first time I ever tried this. Body, neck, hardware,
pickguard (with pickups and controls), neck plate, tremolo system,
etc., everything except the non-original case, which I kept. Netted
a total of $1,600 selling the parts individually. :-)

I got the idea from a guy I know who has been doing this for years as
a retirement business with his wife. He buys vintage and
non-vintage guitars cheap, parts them out, and sells the parts on
eBay. He averages about $200K a year in revenues with a total cost
(not including his time, which isn't that much) of about $25K - $30K.
The post office even supplies him with free shipping boxes and
packaging. Not a bad little retirement business.

I've done the same thing with a couple old Moto Guzzi motorcycles. Sold the individual parts and
netted three times what I'd have gotten for the bikes.

Greedy Restructuring Asshole (long)

On Dec 5, 7:36*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"jps" *wrote in message

...

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 18:41:32 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

The bonuses to management and salaries of the hired "turnaround" guy
are peanuts when compared to the overall debt and are very
commonplace
in Chapter 7 situations like this. * The bankruptcy judge approved
them for reason. * The simplistic views of bystanders are
understandable but don't reflect reality.

Except the "turnaround" guy is part of the vulture capital group. Just
another way to suck the bones dry whilst they're screwing the
employees out of their pensions and whatever else they can grab.

Who's to say your idea that it's far more complex isn't just another
view of a "bystander" who doesn't understand how awfully simple it all
is?
-------------------------------------------------------

I am not an expert on the subject but I've had some direct experience.
I was a principle (small, 5% stockholder and employee) in a company
that had venture capital, bank and private (me included) *financing.
The company did ok for several years but started coming apart
financially in 1986 due to Congress debating tax reforms for over a
year. * Orders for equipment were put on hold and some orders were
cancelled because the customers (primarily large commercial and
defense contractors) didn't know how the tax reform debate would
affect their bottom lines. *Very similar to what's going on today.

I witnessed up front and personal as the venture capital group
installed a turn around specialist in the company with all the best of
intentions.
I can tell you that they view the company strictly through financial
eyes and not from any sense of loyalty to employees or consideration
to their families. *They have a hard core attitude that is at odds
with the company's management who typically have some emotions
involved and have no desire to lay people off. *The turn around guy,
along with management, has to determine which employees are absolutely
necessary for jobs in progress and for company value for a potential
sale or further investment. * It's not a pleasant experience, but it
is necessary. *He was doing his job. *It tore me apart.

In the end, the bank called the note owed to them and the company went
into involuntary bankruptcy. *The primary principle, CEO and president
knew it was coming and skipped town a few weeks before, "on vacation".
He was seriously affected and in a state of acute depression. * I
happened to be second in command *in the owner's absence and tried
unsuccessfully to contact him when employee's paychecks started
bouncing. *I called the bank and learned that all the company's
accounts were frozen. * I then *called the company's attorneys and was
advised to immediately lay off *all* remaining employees which was not
exactly a wonderful experience. * Ultimately, the company was sold in
an "arranged" auction by the bankruptcy court.

That's is the *simplified* version of what happened in this example.
Obviously, there were many more details and gut retching issues during
this horrible experience. *I left that company immediately after the
sale and worked as a consultant to a major defense contractor to make
ends meet.
I was then 37 years old.

There was a personal benefit derived from it however. * A few years
later, when I started my own company, *I swore to never make the
mistakes that I witnessed during this experience. * *I've mentioned
the company from time to time here in the newsgroup but have never
told the whole story. * As a business owner, you may find it
interesting, *so here goes:

In January of 1990, *I incorporated the company. *Like the one that
went bankrupt in 1988, *it designed and built high tech capital
equipment for commercial and military applications. * Initially the
company consisted of me, my wife (receptionist and book keeper) and a
friend from the previous company. *We did all the engineering and
design and subcontracted all the fabrication, machining and heavy
construction. *We did the control systems in-house and the final
assembly and test.

The only funding was my personal savings of approximately $25,000. *We
secured a couple of small contracts from people we knew from the
previous company. * I will always be grateful for their support and
confidence that they exhibited at the time. *Bigger contracts came
along in short order. * These are large dollar value items and they
are typically paid on a "progress payment schedule" *that consisted of
several payments over the period of the contract, based on achievement
of specified milestones. *I managed the finances essentially by having
the customers finance their own projects.

I never had a bank line of credit or loan and I never borrowed any
money from anyone. *We added equipment when we could to do almost all
the fabrication in-house, paid for out of profit, not loans. *I also
sought and brought into the company several highly qualified people in
engineering, finance and manufacturing disiplines, *giving them all a
stock position as well as a salary.

By the end of 1999, the company had grown to about 70 employees with
revenues of about $17M annually. *It came up on the radar screen of
some bigger companies and two of them ended up making formal offers to
acquire it in late 2000.

At the time the physical assets of the company (meaning manufacturing
equipment, engineering equipment, test equipment, etc.) *probably
totaled about $500K *in value. * The rest of the value of the company
was in intellectual property and goodwill.

One of the two companies offered a deal whereby the stockholders in my
company would receive stock in the their company.
My company would become a division of theirs, building equipment only
for them.

The other company offered cash. *They wanted to expand the company
with further investments and market our equipment to the industry in
general.

Now, I may be uneducated in the ways of business and finance, but I am
not a complete idiot. *The company had grown to a point where it
needed the expertise and resources of a larger organization for
continued growth. * At this point I still owned 67% of the company and
it was getting more complicated to run. * I knew my limits.

So, the company was acquired for a little over $21 million *in cash.
The due diligence lasted only about 3 months before closing and every
day that I got up I couldn't believe it was all really happening. * We
had no debt, *no bank loans and no venture capitalists to pay off.
The proceeds went to the stockholders.

At the time of closing, and after all the adjustments were made for
work in progress, etc., *the company had $1.5M *in the bank, which we
would retain.

A week before the closing, I called a meeting of all the stockholders
and proposed an employee bonus plan, using this money.
It was unanimously agreed to.

The day after the closing, I called a meeting of all the employees.
My wife had made out checks to everyone. *It basically came down to
$1,000 for every month or part of a month that the employee had worked
for the company. * Several *had been with the company for 10 years.
The average was about 6 years. *Some received over $120,000. *A couple
had just joined the company, but still received at least $1,000.

That day was one of the most satisfying day of my life. * Several
people received enough money to pay off their home mortgages. *Others
now had the money to buy their first house. * It was funny as hell to
watch the reaction when I announced the bonus formula. *You could see
people mentally adding up the number of months they had been employed
as I explained how it would work. * Meanwhile, my wife was walking
around handing out envelopes with the checks in them to all the
employees. * Great day.

As for me, *part of the acquisition deal included a three year
"consulting" agreement and non-compete clause. *They didn't have to
worry. *To this day I have no regrets and absolutely no interest in
getting involved in that industry again.

The only reason I started the goofy guitar shop thing is because I was
starting to drive my poor wife nuts, not having anything of importance
to do.
She's the one who, after looking at my modest collection of guitars,
amplifiers and Hammond B3 organ, suggested I open a "music shop".
I thought that would interesting and have been involved with it for
the past 3 and a half years. * I realized however that I was never
designed or cut out to deal in a retail world, so I have turned the
shop over to a friend who is both a musician and a luthier. * I stay
involved, more as a hobby and place to go, but he now owns and runs
the place. * It too is growing and will be moving to a larger facility
early next year.

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Excellent, Richard! Hard work, guts and ingenuity.

Thanks for demonstrating how it paid off.