In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:33:59 -0500, T. Keating
wrote:

Eventually EROEI on fossil fuels will drop so low, It won't even be worth looking for
them. But, before that happens the extra CO2 we've put into the atmosphere will drive
Earth's Biosphere into the major 6th extinction level event.

That is exactly what needs to happen if you really want to cut CO2
levels.

CO2 tracks population growth as closely as any other metric.
If you want to get back to 1940 CO2 levels, you need to scrub about 5
billion people off the population.
I imagine the upcoming thermonuclear war will do it.

What thermonuclear war is that?

On 11/5/2012 1:27 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:33:59 -0500, T. Keating
wrote:

Eventually EROEI on fossil fuels will drop so low, It won't even be worth looking for
them. But, before that happens the extra CO2 we've put into the atmosphere will drive
Earth's Biosphere into the major 6th extinction level event.

That is exactly what needs to happen if you really want to cut CO2
levels.

CO2 tracks population growth as closely as any other metric.
If you want to get back to 1940 CO2 levels, you need to scrub about 5
billion people off the population.
I imagine the upcoming thermonuclear war will do it.

What thermonuclear war is that?

The upcoming one, dummy.

On 11/5/2012 1:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:27:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 11:33:59 -0500, T. Keating
wrote:

Eventually EROEI on fossil fuels will drop so low, It won't even be worth looking for
them. But, before that happens the extra CO2 we've put into the atmosphere will drive
Earth's Biosphere into the major 6th extinction level event.

That is exactly what needs to happen if you really want to cut CO2
levels.

CO2 tracks population growth as closely as any other metric.
If you want to get back to 1940 CO2 levels, you need to scrub about 5
billion people off the population.
I imagine the upcoming thermonuclear war will do it.

What thermonuclear war is that?

The one that starts in Israel and expands until nobody is still able
to shoot anymore.


So, but "starting in Israel" you mean they will be the first ones turned
to ashes by some Arab dickhead? Right?

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:28:14 -0500, wrote:

Of course a true global financial collapse (not the little correction
we had 4 years ago) could actually bring on a super power war.

===

....or a major resource crunch for something essential like food, fuel
or water.

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:49:25 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:28:14 -0500, wrote:

Of course a true global financial collapse (not the little correction
we had 4 years ago) could actually bring on a super power war.

===

...or a major resource crunch for something essential like food, fuel
or water.

Of those I would say water.

China and India/Bangladesh are already fighting over water from Tibet
(maybe a bigger issue than the Dalai Lama)
There are also water wars developing in Africa.



-----------------------------

We are much more likely to have wars caused by a shortage of water than a
shortage of oil. As we are running short of potable, fresh water now. A
lot sooner than the end of oil. The earth is still creating oil and gas
deep in the ground, but fresh water is becoming more tainted and not being
created at the rate we need it.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:15:23 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

As we are running short of potable, fresh water now.

===

That's true but filtration technology will solve some of that, and if
someone can figure out how to do cost effective desalination, the
oceans contain a vast reservoir of water. Desalination might turn out
to be the best application for solar energy.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:23:36 -0500, wrote:

The same is true now in the central valley of California right now.
We were there a few years ago and there were miles of brown fields
next to some green ones, simply because of water rationing.

===

Stop me if I'm wrong but I believe the central valley depends on snow
melt for their irrigation water, which in turn is influenced by
cyclical ocean temperature patterns in the Pacific.

This is the same issue which is causing low water in the Colorado
River reservoirs which in the case of Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are
down about 60 feet from their maximum levels.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:23:36 -0500, wrote:

The same is true now in the central valley of California right now.
We were there a few years ago and there were miles of brown fields
next to some green ones, simply because of water rationing.

===

Stop me if I'm wrong but I believe the central valley depends on snow
melt for their irrigation water, which in turn is influenced by
cyclical ocean temperature patterns in the Pacific.

This is the same issue which is causing low water in the Colorado
River reservoirs which in the case of Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are
down about 60 feet from their maximum levels.

The problem is we have allocated more water than is available. The Central
Valley farmers get subsidized water and lots are reselling those water
rights they got for 40 years from the Federal Government for huge profits.
They pay from $6-9 an acre foot and resell it to Los Angeles for $200+.
More profit than growing crops. Plus the biggest user in the valley is
growing subsidized cotton, which is a huge water hog. As the book said the
"Cadillac Dessert". One cotton Farmer in Kern County sold water to the city
of Mojave for $1500 an acre foot. Nice profit.
http://stopcanal.org/node/71
The Colorado river is about 140% of normal water flow allocated. There is
not enough flow to meet the contracts on average. We have farmers here who
are on State Water and on Federal Water. All comes from the same place, but
the Federal water users get to resell the water they do not use in
agricuture, where as those getting State Water (Delta Mendota Canal) can not
resell.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 20:11:21 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:22:14 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:23:36 -0500, wrote:

The same is true now in the central valley of California right now.
We were there a few years ago and there were miles of brown fields
next to some green ones, simply because of water rationing.

===

Stop me if I'm wrong but I believe the central valley depends on snow
melt for their irrigation water, which in turn is influenced by
cyclical ocean temperature patterns in the Pacific.

This is the same issue which is causing low water in the Colorado
River reservoirs which in the case of Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are
down about 60 feet from their maximum levels.

Yes but the open question is how fast are they using that water. It is
still a finite resource and consumption goes up every year.

Actually I think the dams are lower than that unless they are up from
when we were there. I am not sure if I have any pictures of the "ring
around the tub" but it was striking and more than 60 feet high when we
were there. It was certainly a long walk from the marina buildings
down to the docks.

===

The marina buildings are now on floating docks which can be moved in
and out (mostly out at this time). The launch ramps are incredibly
long, probably close to 1/4 mile. 60 feet is my estimate, might be
more. According to this web site lake Powell is almost 81 feet below
full pool.

http://lakepowell.water-data.com/

All it takes is 3 to 5 years of above average snow fall to bring it
all back. One of the issues is that we guarantee Mexico a certain
minimum amount of water every year, something like 1.5 million acre
feet if my memory is correct.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:59:16 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

On 11/5/2012 1:46 PM, wrote:


What thermonuclear war is that?

The one that starts in Israel and expands until nobody is still able
to shoot anymore.


So, but "starting in Israel" you mean they will be the first ones turned
to ashes by some Arab dickhead? Right?


... or that one of those towel heads pop a dirty bomb/failed nuclear
device in Israel and they over react.
Once the bombs start flying, it may be hard to stop tho, particularly
if a US president thinks we need to do something.
If something actually happened here we would be blowing the hell out
of somebody and then it starts depending on who gets the fallout and
what they do about it.

Of course a true global financial collapse (not the little correction
we had 4 years ago) could actually bring on a super power war.





And when is this going to happen?