In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:54:33 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 08:30:15 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...


Of course a true global financial collapse (not the little correction
we had 4 years ago) could actually bring on a super power war.





And when is this going to happen?

Long before this global warming thing will be a problem.

Cite? Global warming is already a problem, by the way.

What problem? Cite?

We have been suffering from a lack of global warming the last couple of
days in my area.

Yep, to hell with science, just go with what FOX feeds you.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


http://tinyurl.com/b7433wh
-----------------------------------------

If it pans out it will be great! As to people here complaining about solar
and the cost. Read the first paragraph in the article.

"Solar power is inefficient. Whenever those plains of panels are laid out,
the sunlight they convert into stored energy also degrades their
effectiveness. With each day the panels spend smoldering under the sun, they
become more unreliable in harvesting the rays. For many new systems,
designed for lower cost and flexibility, degradation is a huge issue: In
just 60 hours, efficiency can sometimes plummet as much as 90%. "

And you want to mortgage your kids and grandkids lives to pay for this crap?
If they can get efficiency and lifespan at an affordable cost, they go for
it. Affordable cost is not having the government subsidize the cost, as
that is just shifting who pays the money.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article om,
says...

On 11/5/2012 1:25 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 11/5/2012 11:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:42:35 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:41:01 -0500, BAR wrote:

The leftists want us to stop using all fossil fuel which is not
practicable.

===

Not yet practicable. Someday it will be a necessity for one reason
or
another, might as well prepare now to the extent possible.

Our problem is that we use fossil fuel all of our packaging and it
is
critical to manufacturing.

It doesn't matter, sooner or later, there will be no fossil fuel
available at any price.
You'll have to switch to some sort of bio-based packaging..

P.S.. The difference between living cells and thermally cracked
ones(fossil fuels) is not
that much of difference. (Need extra energy inputs to grow, collect
bio-matter, and then
crack them via pyrolysis. ).

Eventually EROEI on fossil fuels will drop so low, It won't even be
worth looking for
them. But, before that happens the extra CO2 we've put into the
atmosphere will drive
Earth's Biosphere into the major 6th extinction level event.

You can't explain science to people who get all of their information
from FOX.....

I rarely catch Fox news. Go ahead and explain science to me, nimrod.

The 6th extinction follows the 5th. Also, as I've tried to tell the hard
core right wingers here (and they don't get it) fossil fuel is a finite
resource.

As suspected. You can't explain what science is.

Oh, I didn't realize that you didn't know what "science" as a whole is.
Okay, so science is the the knowledge of dealing with facts in a
systematic arrangement showing the operation of the laws of the physical
or material world.


--------------------------

That is not science. Science is studying and finding out the facts. Not
knowing all the facts.

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:49:25 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:28:14 -0500, wrote:

Of course a true global financial collapse (not the little correction
we had 4 years ago) could actually bring on a super power war.

===

...or a major resource crunch for something essential like food, fuel
or water.

Of those I would say water.

China and India/Bangladesh are already fighting over water from Tibet
(maybe a bigger issue than the Dalai Lama)
There are also water wars developing in Africa.



-----------------------------

We are much more likely to have wars caused by a shortage of water than a
shortage of oil. As we are running short of potable, fresh water now. A
lot sooner than the end of oil. The earth is still creating oil and gas
deep in the ground, but fresh water is becoming more tainted and not being
created at the rate we need it.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


http://tinyurl.com/b7433wh
-----------------------------------------

If it pans out it will be great! As to people here complaining about solar
and the cost. Read the first paragraph in the article.

"Solar power is inefficient. Whenever those plains of panels are laid out,
the sunlight they convert into stored energy also degrades their
effectiveness. With each day the panels spend smoldering under the sun, they
become more unreliable in harvesting the rays. For many new systems,
designed for lower cost and flexibility, degradation is a huge issue: In
just 60 hours, efficiency can sometimes plummet as much as 90%. "

And you want to mortgage your kids and grandkids lives to pay for this crap?
If they can get efficiency and lifespan at an affordable cost, they go for
it. Affordable cost is not having the government subsidize the cost, as
that is just shifting who pays the money.

Almost every invention when first developed was too expensive,
unreliable, etc.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article om,
says...

On 11/5/2012 1:25 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 11/5/2012 11:35 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:42:35 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Nov 2012 20:41:01 -0500, BAR wrote:

The leftists want us to stop using all fossil fuel which is not
practicable.

===

Not yet practicable. Someday it will be a necessity for one reason
or
another, might as well prepare now to the extent possible.

Our problem is that we use fossil fuel all of our packaging and it
is
critical to manufacturing.

It doesn't matter, sooner or later, there will be no fossil fuel
available at any price.
You'll have to switch to some sort of bio-based packaging..

P.S.. The difference between living cells and thermally cracked
ones(fossil fuels) is not
that much of difference. (Need extra energy inputs to grow, collect
bio-matter, and then
crack them via pyrolysis. ).

Eventually EROEI on fossil fuels will drop so low, It won't even be
worth looking for
them. But, before that happens the extra CO2 we've put into the
atmosphere will drive
Earth's Biosphere into the major 6th extinction level event.

You can't explain science to people who get all of their information
from FOX.....

I rarely catch Fox news. Go ahead and explain science to me, nimrod.

The 6th extinction follows the 5th. Also, as I've tried to tell the hard
core right wingers here (and they don't get it) fossil fuel is a finite
resource.

As suspected. You can't explain what science is.

Oh, I didn't realize that you didn't know what "science" as a whole is.
Okay, so science is the the knowledge of dealing with facts in a
systematic arrangement showing the operation of the laws of the physical
or material world.


--------------------------

That is not science. Science is studying and finding out the facts. Not
knowing all the facts.

From Merriam-Webster:

Definition of SCIENCE

1
: the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or
misunderstanding
2
a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study the
science of theology
b : something (as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned
like systematized knowledge have it down to a science
3
a : knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the
operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through
scientific method
b : such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the
physical world and its phenomena : natural science
4
: a system or method reconciling practical ends with scientific laws
cooking is both a science and an art

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 11:15:23 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

As we are running short of potable, fresh water now.

===

That's true but filtration technology will solve some of that, and if
someone can figure out how to do cost effective desalination, the
oceans contain a vast reservoir of water. Desalination might turn out
to be the best application for solar energy.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:20:17 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


http://tinyurl.com/b7433wh
-----------------------------------------

If it pans out it will be great! As to people here complaining about solar
and the cost. Read the first paragraph in the article.

"Solar power is inefficient. Whenever those plains of panels are laid out,
the sunlight they convert into stored energy also degrades their
effectiveness. With each day the panels spend smoldering under the sun, they
become more unreliable in harvesting the rays. For many new systems,
designed for lower cost and flexibility, degradation is a huge issue: In
just 60 hours, efficiency can sometimes plummet as much as 90%. "

And you want to mortgage your kids and grandkids lives to pay for this crap?
If they can get efficiency and lifespan at an affordable cost, they go for
it. Affordable cost is not having the government subsidize the cost, as
that is just shifting who pays the money.

Almost every invention when first developed was too expensive,
unreliable, etc.

And an alarming number remain that way until they fade away.
Go find a stack of popular mechanics magazines from the 50s and 60s
and you will see that far more than half of their "wonderful
inventions" are not with us today.

As Tim Wilson says "where the **** is my jet pack?"
http://forum.grasscity.com/music-gen...im-wilson.html

Yeah, the car, the bike, the lawnmower, the electric light, the outboard
motor, the refrigerator, the air conditioner, the cotton gin, the steam
engine, the rifle, and on and on...... All too expensive and unreliable
when first brought out......

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:23:36 -0500, wrote:

The same is true now in the central valley of California right now.
We were there a few years ago and there were miles of brown fields
next to some green ones, simply because of water rationing.

===

Stop me if I'm wrong but I believe the central valley depends on snow
melt for their irrigation water, which in turn is influenced by
cyclical ocean temperature patterns in the Pacific.

This is the same issue which is causing low water in the Colorado
River reservoirs which in the case of Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are
down about 60 feet from their maximum levels.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 20:11:21 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:22:14 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 11:23:36 -0500, wrote:

The same is true now in the central valley of California right now.
We were there a few years ago and there were miles of brown fields
next to some green ones, simply because of water rationing.

===

Stop me if I'm wrong but I believe the central valley depends on snow
melt for their irrigation water, which in turn is influenced by
cyclical ocean temperature patterns in the Pacific.

This is the same issue which is causing low water in the Colorado
River reservoirs which in the case of Lake Powell and Lake Mead, are
down about 60 feet from their maximum levels.

Yes but the open question is how fast are they using that water. It is
still a finite resource and consumption goes up every year.

Actually I think the dams are lower than that unless they are up from
when we were there. I am not sure if I have any pictures of the "ring
around the tub" but it was striking and more than 60 feet high when we
were there. It was certainly a long walk from the marina buildings
down to the docks.

===

The marina buildings are now on floating docks which can be moved in
and out (mostly out at this time). The launch ramps are incredibly
long, probably close to 1/4 mile. 60 feet is my estimate, might be
more. According to this web site lake Powell is almost 81 feet below
full pool.

http://lakepowell.water-data.com/

All it takes is 3 to 5 years of above average snow fall to bring it
all back. One of the issues is that we guarantee Mexico a certain
minimum amount of water every year, something like 1.5 million acre
feet if my memory is correct.