In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 10:47:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 05:13:46 -0400, T. Keating
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:48:25 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 18:07:45 -0400, bob wrote:

yeah it's headed our way. i'm about 70 miles inland from the jersey
shore. boat's out for the winter but it's on blocks so we'll see what
happens. hope everyone does well!

You should be OK that far inland. We don't even put up the shutters
for a Cat 1

While it may be just a cat 1, (a very large cat 1, HF winds 105 miles from center )..
Trees and other infrastructure aren't perpared for it. Thusly, many millions will be left
without power.. perhaps several weeks.

That is true. The people up north do not have houses that were built
to any particular wind code.
They didn't even put nuts on the J bolts on top of block walls the
last time I saw them building houses (late 70s)
The walls were just sitting there, assuming that all loads would be
down.
The roof trusses had 2 16d nails holding them to the top plate and
there might only be 20 common nails per sheet holding the roof
sheathing down. Shingles get 4 nails.

I expect we will see siding blown off, shingles gone, carports and
sheds destroyed and some total roof failures.
The most noticeable thing will be the trees tho. That is always the
first thing that goes and they have lots of old growth trees up there.

We've lost a few trees in the neighborhood to storms, but I'm hoping the winds are not as strong
here as on the coast. Right now the weather channel is predicting 35 mph winds with gusts over 50.
Hopefully, the oaks in the yard will withstand that, although I've got one in the back that's got
some dead branches at the top.

Just think about the money you will save if the wind takes them down.

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:49:36 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 10:47:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 05:13:46 -0400, T. Keating
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:48:25 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 18:07:45 -0400, bob wrote:

yeah it's headed our way. i'm about 70 miles inland from the jersey
shore. boat's out for the winter but it's on blocks so we'll see what
happens. hope everyone does well!

You should be OK that far inland. We don't even put up the shutters
for a Cat 1

While it may be just a cat 1, (a very large cat 1, HF winds 105 miles from center )..
Trees and other infrastructure aren't perpared for it. Thusly, many millions will be left
without power.. perhaps several weeks.

That is true. The people up north do not have houses that were built
to any particular wind code.
They didn't even put nuts on the J bolts on top of block walls the
last time I saw them building houses (late 70s)
The walls were just sitting there, assuming that all loads would be
down.
The roof trusses had 2 16d nails holding them to the top plate and
there might only be 20 common nails per sheet holding the roof
sheathing down. Shingles get 4 nails.

I expect we will see siding blown off, shingles gone, carports and
sheds destroyed and some total roof failures.
The most noticeable thing will be the trees tho. That is always the
first thing that goes and they have lots of old growth trees up there.

We've lost a few trees in the neighborhood to storms, but I'm hoping the winds are not as strong
here as on the coast. Right now the weather channel is predicting 35 mph winds with gusts over 50.
Hopefully, the oaks in the yard will withstand that, although I've got one in the back that's got
some dead branches at the top.

Just think about the money you will save if the wind takes them down.

Might get new roof and carpeting also!

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:49:36 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 10:47:31 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 05:13:46 -0400, T. Keating
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:48:25 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 18:07:45 -0400, bob wrote:

yeah it's headed our way. i'm about 70 miles inland from the jersey
shore. boat's out for the winter but it's on blocks so we'll see what
happens. hope everyone does well!

You should be OK that far inland. We don't even put up the shutters
for a Cat 1

While it may be just a cat 1, (a very large cat 1, HF winds 105 miles from center )..
Trees and other infrastructure aren't perpared for it. Thusly, many millions will be left
without power.. perhaps several weeks.

That is true. The people up north do not have houses that were built
to any particular wind code.
They didn't even put nuts on the J bolts on top of block walls the
last time I saw them building houses (late 70s)
The walls were just sitting there, assuming that all loads would be
down.
The roof trusses had 2 16d nails holding them to the top plate and
there might only be 20 common nails per sheet holding the roof
sheathing down. Shingles get 4 nails.

I expect we will see siding blown off, shingles gone, carports and
sheds destroyed and some total roof failures.
The most noticeable thing will be the trees tho. That is always the
first thing that goes and they have lots of old growth trees up there.

We've lost a few trees in the neighborhood to storms, but I'm hoping the winds are not as strong
here as on the coast. Right now the weather channel is predicting 35 mph winds with gusts over 50.
Hopefully, the oaks in the yard will withstand that, although I've got one in the back that's got
some dead branches at the top.

Just think about the money you will save if the wind takes them down.

Might get new roof and carpeting also!

Good luck!

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 12:42:11 -0400, GuzzisRule
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 11:49:36 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...


We've lost a few trees in the neighborhood to storms, but I'm hoping the winds are not as strong
here as on the coast. Right now the weather channel is predicting 35 mph winds with gusts over 50.
Hopefully, the oaks in the yard will withstand that, although I've got one in the back that's got
some dead branches at the top.

Just think about the money you will save if the wind takes them down.

Might get new roof and carpeting also!

Just remember, it is not THAT the wind is blowing, it is WHAT the wind
is blowing.
Like I said we don't usually put down the shutters for a Cat 1 and you
are on the low end of tropical storm at 50 MPH gusts but you have a
lot more loose **** to blow around.
We are pretty careful about anything that will move in the wind since
we can get 50-60 MPH gusts just about any afternoon in the summer.
2 or 3 storms a year pretty much thins out the trees but I filled a 30
yard dumpster this spring, getting ready for the summer.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Ficus%20down.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Hort%20dumpster%20full.jpg

Most wind damage is caused on the leeward side because if negative
pressure. Note that this is NOT taking into account airborne debris.

On 10/29/2012 11:00 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
Most wind damage is caused on the leeward side because if negative
pressure. Note that this is NOT taking into account airborne debris.

Prove it.

In article om,
says...

On 10/29/2012 11:00 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
Most wind damage is caused on the leeward side because if negative
pressure. Note that this is NOT taking into account airborne debris.

Prove it.

http://tinyurl.com/8onat5a

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:00:08 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Most wind damage is caused on the leeward side because if negative
pressure. Note that this is NOT taking into account airborne debris.

... but it is the wind borne debris that causes the most damage ... or
falling trees.
The reason you put up shutters is to protect from the flying ****, not
the wind. About half of the openings in my house now have impact rated
windows and we are going to do the rest when we get around to
renovating those areas. We are really only talking about 5 windows and
they have shutters.
The garage door is 150 MPH rated as is the front door and the french
doors in the bedroom. All of the openings on the south and east side
are current impact code. (9/16" laminated glass) I bet they would stop
a small caliber handgun round.

When they design for airborne debris there are parameters that are used
as far as speed, size of debris, etc. But, wind can still be a bitch in
and of itself, especially on the corners where a negative pressure is
created.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:06:16 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:00:08 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Most wind damage is caused on the leeward side because if negative
pressure. Note that this is NOT taking into account airborne debris.

... but it is the wind borne debris that causes the most damage ... or
falling trees.
The reason you put up shutters is to protect from the flying ****, not
the wind. About half of the openings in my house now have impact rated
windows and we are going to do the rest when we get around to
renovating those areas. We are really only talking about 5 windows and
they have shutters.
The garage door is 150 MPH rated as is the front door and the french
doors in the bedroom. All of the openings on the south and east side
are current impact code. (9/16" laminated glass) I bet they would stop
a small caliber handgun round.

When they design for airborne debris there are parameters that are used
as far as speed, size of debris, etc. But, wind can still be a bitch in
and of itself, especially on the corners where a negative pressure is
created.

Negative pressures have the greatest effect on the roof. That is why
we have a wind code here. Unfortunately they don't up north so I
expect to see a lot of roof damage and even total failures. Most
houses up there simply have the trusses toe nailed into the top plate,
assuming all loads are down. There is absolutely zero uplift
protection on the wall itself. You have 2 16d nails in the bottom of
the stud and whatever you get from a few nails in celotex sheathing.
Basically nothing.
Even then, most roof failures get traced back to a failure of the
building envelope and internal pressures blowing the roof off. That is
why they are so serious about protecting doors and windows.
The thing that will save them is that this is a weak cat 1 that will
be a TS by the time the eye comes ashore.
This will be a bad storm for them but don't confuse it with a
hurricane. They call the wind speeds in a cat 2 hurricane a tornado
when it hits up there and they have near total destruction in the
path.


Although I do not have the structural endorsement on my inspector's
license, I have taken a lot of the structural courses.
I could teach most of the electrical CEUs so I don't take them. I take
other disciplines, particularly structural, because it is the most
interesting.

BTW that book you linked in the note above is good but over the head
of most people and it is somewhat dated.
Florida updated our wind zones last year. That book is still talking
about the 2000 codes.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/2012...code%20map.jpg

Corners, where the wind goes around and creates negative pressure is the
first place that your siding will rip off. If you see a mobile home that
was being towed up the interstate and the siding is coming off, it will
be in the back corners. Yes, it is outdated, I didn't bother looking for
IBC code books for a specific area or time. The rules have changed but
the physics behind it has not.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:46:38 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 13:06:16 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:00:08 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Most wind damage is caused on the leeward side because if negative
pressure. Note that this is NOT taking into account airborne debris.

... but it is the wind borne debris that causes the most damage ... or
falling trees.
The reason you put up shutters is to protect from the flying ****, not
the wind. About half of the openings in my house now have impact rated
windows and we are going to do the rest when we get around to
renovating those areas. We are really only talking about 5 windows and
they have shutters.
The garage door is 150 MPH rated as is the front door and the french
doors in the bedroom. All of the openings on the south and east side
are current impact code. (9/16" laminated glass) I bet they would stop
a small caliber handgun round.

When they design for airborne debris there are parameters that are used
as far as speed, size of debris, etc. But, wind can still be a bitch in
and of itself, especially on the corners where a negative pressure is
created.

Negative pressures have the greatest effect on the roof. That is why
we have a wind code here. Unfortunately they don't up north so I
expect to see a lot of roof damage and even total failures. Most
houses up there simply have the trusses toe nailed into the top plate,
assuming all loads are down. There is absolutely zero uplift
protection on the wall itself. You have 2 16d nails in the bottom of
the stud and whatever you get from a few nails in celotex sheathing.
Basically nothing.
Even then, most roof failures get traced back to a failure of the
building envelope and internal pressures blowing the roof off. That is
why they are so serious about protecting doors and windows.
The thing that will save them is that this is a weak cat 1 that will
be a TS by the time the eye comes ashore.
This will be a bad storm for them but don't confuse it with a
hurricane. They call the wind speeds in a cat 2 hurricane a tornado
when it hits up there and they have near total destruction in the
path.


Although I do not have the structural endorsement on my inspector's
license, I have taken a lot of the structural courses.
I could teach most of the electrical CEUs so I don't take them. I take
other disciplines, particularly structural, because it is the most
interesting.

BTW that book you linked in the note above is good but over the head
of most people and it is somewhat dated.
Florida updated our wind zones last year. That book is still talking
about the 2000 codes.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/2012...code%20map.jpg

Corners, where the wind goes around and creates negative pressure is the
first place that your siding will rip off. If you see a mobile home that
was being towed up the interstate and the siding is coming off, it will
be in the back corners. Yes, it is outdated, I didn't bother looking for
IBC code books for a specific area or time. The rules have changed but
the physics behind it has not.

Losing your siding is not the issue, although we don't see a lot of it
here because it is so easy to lose. The real issue is losing the roof,
not just the shingles, the whole damned thing. You do get a
significant uplift but when you lose a window on the windward side, it
puts pressure in the house and adds tens of thousands of pounds of
uplift to what is on top.

Even a minimal cat 1 can put ~20,000 pounds in a 2000 sq/ft house.

It sure can. Flat roofs for industrial buildings (1/4" per foot or less
slope is considered flat) are a big problem as well, because usually
there are penthouses and such that want to turn over and once that roof
is breached, all hell breaks loose. But I digress, losing siding IS an
issue and a big one. It isn't just that the siding is gone, but when, as
you say with windows and doors, you have a positive pressure pushing the
walls out, you also have a negative pressure on the leeward side. That
is why great pains are taken anymore to make sure sheathing is nailed
correctly.