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Floridian Hospitality
In article om,
says... On 10/10/2012 10:43 AM, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The MIA guy is a weapons expert. Up until recently he thought the 226 Sig was the cat's meow. He now thinks the CZ75 is the finest pistol that was ever made. What's your take on that? I don't know what the "finest pistol" ever made is. SIG and CZ both make fine-shooting, accurate pistols. Lots of European protective service guys and military guys use CZs. What really matters with a good pistol is the shooter's familarity and hours of practice. Without hours of practice, you're not going to shoot well especially when it counts. CZ does make a .45ACP I like. It's very much like the CZ75 but a little larger. I've never fired one, but I'd sure like to take one out for a spin at a range. If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) |
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In article ,
says... In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44*am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos *at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? You have to understand, Scotty is insane and thinks that everyone is someone else! |
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On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:56:27 -0400, EmpacherFan
wrote: If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) === Breaking down is fairly easy, putting it back together is what gives people fits until they learn how to get the hammer and spring into the right position. In terms of speed and accuracy, a S&W 41 or an old Hi Standard Supermatic will run circles around the Ruger III. |
Floridian Hospitality
In article ,
says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:56:27 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) === Breaking down is fairly easy, putting it back together is what gives people fits until they learn how to get the hammer and spring into the right position. In terms of speed and accuracy, a S&W 41 or an old Hi Standard Supermatic will run circles around the Ruger III. I thought we were discussing casual plinking with a 22, in which case a new Ruger for about $300 will be fine and more than accurate enough. You'd have to be a hell of a shot to outshoot that pistol's capabilities. A new 41 is more than $1200 and a decent used Supermatic Trophy probably sells for more than twice what the new Ruger does and unless you are getting a High Standard made in Connecticut 50 or so years ago and built and tuned by one of High Standard's famous gunsmiths, what are you really getting? A pistol not much different than the J.C. Higgins models High Standard sold to Sears. I suppose the new owners of High Standard are still turning out 22s somewhere in Texas, but I haven't seen a new High Standard in many years. Neither the Smiths nor the High Standards compete with the Morini or Pardini 22 competition pistols. I'm not convinced for casual shooting the Smith is really any better than the Ruger. Unless you know what to look for, a used semi-auto pistol is something I would avoid, especially if you are a new shooter. But if know what you are doing, sure. Even my agency issued service semi-auto, a Glock, is decent enough though pretty cheap. What it has going for it are reliability and reasonable accuracy with practice at defensive ranges. The muzzle flip with .40 S&W rounds is something to be taken seriously. |
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On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:18:24 -0400, EmpacherFan
wrote: The muzzle flip with .40 S&W rounds is something to be taken seriously. === You sound like quite an expert. How is your old friend "Stumpy"? |
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On 10/10/2012 2:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:18:24 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: The muzzle flip with .40 S&W rounds is something to be taken seriously. === You sound like quite an expert. How is your old friend "Stumpy"? I'll give it a few more days before I'd make that judgement. But you could be right. Stumpy's friend has several tells. I'm waiting to see a few. |
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Floridian Hospitality
On Oct 10, 4:38*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 16:32:57 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:18:24 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: The muzzle flip with .40 S&W rounds is something to be taken seriously. === You sound like quite an expert. How is your old friend "Stumpy"? Stumpy? I don't get the reference. Why don't you people just let it go? Stay on topic and it won't matter WHO he is. Damn. I don't see how ONE person can rule so many other people's every waking moment. Because "staying on topic" is a troll thread on firearms from JPS... Guess you think that's ok:) But you and John go along looking down your noses at us.. We don't mind... |
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wrote in message ...
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:24:22 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:56:27 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) === Breaking down is fairly easy, putting it back together is what gives people fits until they learn how to get the hammer and spring into the right position. In terms of speed and accuracy, a S&W 41 or an old Hi Standard Supermatic will run circles around the Ruger III. I have an old target model Woodsman that is hard to beat. I traded a 100 round belt of .50 BMG for it from a gun dealer in Oxon Hill Md. ----------------------- My dad had a Woodsman in the 1950's. Was a real POS. Had about a 5' impact region when bench rest shooting. He traded it for a Benjamin pump up pellet gun. The Benjamin was a hell of a lot better weapon than that Woodsman. Plus cheaper to shoot. For a fun accurate 22, he had a Colt Buntline Special 22lr/22mag. Do not know what happened to that weapon. Maybe was stolen when his house was robbed when he was in the hospital at end of life. |
Floridian Hospitality
On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:09:40 PM UTC-4, jps wrote:
Because your gated community is so very often under attack? Do you wear hoodies while black and wander the neighborhood? People are driven to paranoia by the news but it's more often those who have guns that become the victims. Gonna go to your safe and unlock it when the giant black men burst through your door to pistol whip you and take your wife's precious jewelry? Or will you keep it under your bed or in your nightstand for when someone comes into your home when you're not there to steal your stuff and find your gun? That's how most guns make it to the street. The people I worry about are the crazy assholes in movie theaters, mcdonalds, malls and such that get a hold of caches of weapons and unleash their frustrations against whomever in a random event. Or the recently fired employee who has no life outside of work. Just like this guy who killed his workmates. Got a lot of hostility at the Music Shoppe? Disgruntled employees? Better get a gun. And you call others racist? What a racist post you just made. |
Floridian Hospitality
On Oct 10, 9:43*am, EmpacherFan wrote:
In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. |
Floridian Hospitality
On Oct 10, 10:56*am, EmpacherFan wrote:
In article om, says... On 10/10/2012 10:43 AM, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says.... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos *at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment.... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The MIA guy is a weapons expert. Up until recently he thought the 226 Sig was the cat's meow. He now thinks the CZ75 is the finest pistol that was ever made. What's your take on that? I don't know what the "finest pistol" ever made is. SIG and CZ both make fine-shooting, accurate pistols. Lots of European protective service guys and military guys use CZs. What really matters with a good pistol is the shooter's familarity and hours of practice. Without hours of practice, you're not going to shoot well especially when it counts. CZ does make a .45ACP I like. It's very much like the CZ75 but a little larger. I've never fired one, but I'd sure like to take one out for a spin at a range. If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) My dad had one. They are a great pistol, but like you said, unless you know what the 'tricks' they are horrible to try to put back together. |
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On Oct 10, 12:24*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:56:27 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) === Breaking down is fairly easy, putting it back together is what gives people fits until they learn how to get the hammer and spring into the right position. In terms of speed and accuracy, a S&W 41 or an old Hi Standard Supermatic will run circles around the Ruger III. Finding a good Hi-Standard is hard to come by, Wayne. They've been out of business for years, but they were a top quality arm. |
Floridian Hospitality
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:30:14 -0400, Meyer wrote:
On 10/10/2012 2:35 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:18:24 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: The muzzle flip with .40 S&W rounds is something to be taken seriously. === You sound like quite an expert. How is your old friend "Stumpy"? I'll give it a few more days before I'd make that judgement. But you could be right. Stumpy's friend has several tells. I'm waiting to see a few. === You can play with him if you want but I'll pass. Ask him if he'd like to see a current picture of his old house in Jacksonville. |
Floridian Hospitality
In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79
@i14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:43*am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. |
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On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:30:32 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: Finding a good Hi-Standard is hard to come by, Wayne. They've been out of business for years, but they were a top quality arm. === They're hard to beat for target practice and rim fire competition, shooting every bit as well as a brand new S&W 41. |
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On Oct 10, 8:05*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 15:30:32 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: Finding a good Hi-Standard is hard to come by, Wayne. They've been out of business for years, but they were a top quality arm. === They're hard to beat for target practice and rim fire competition, shooting every bit as well as a brand new S&W 41. I'd love to have any one of these! But they demand a kings ransom to buy one. https://www.google.com/search?num=10....1.xovt-_i07rU I'm not into .22 revolvers, but 30 yrs ago a friend of mine had a 9 shot .22 and I fell in love with it. pain to load if under time, though. |
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On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:27:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: I'm not into .22 revolvers, but 30 yrs ago a friend of mine had a 9 shot .22 and I fell in love with it. pain to load if under time, though. === One of the guys I compete with has a 22 revolver. Using a speed loader and ammo staging tray he is surprisingly fast on the reloads. |
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On Oct 10, 10:37*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:27:51 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: I'm not into .22 revolvers, but 30 yrs ago a friend of mine had a 9 shot .22 and I fell in love with it. *pain to load if under time, though. === One of the guys I compete with has a 22 revolver. * Using a speed loader and ammo staging tray he is surprisingly fast on the reloads. I'm sure he is with practice and the right set up. Especially for small bore though, I prefer clips. |
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On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:58:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"jps" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:19:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:04:45 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: William Pettry had flown from Milwaukee to Jacksonville, Fla., for the Bears game against the Jaguars with his best friend, looking for a good time. (rest of story snipped) Yup we need better knife control here. It's not a weapons problem, it's a mental health problem further exacerbated by easy access to guns. But I guess 10,000 gun deaths a year is an acceptable figure to you. The CDC doesn't agree with you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be it mental health, drugs or whatever .... there were 806,843 aggravated assaults in the USA in 2009. "Aggravated assault" is defined as the unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury and involves the display of—or threat to use—a gun, knife, or other weapon. 26.9 percent were committed with hands, fists, and feet; 20.9 percent were committed with firearms; and 18.7 percent were committed with knives or cutting instruments. The remaining 33.5 percent of aggravated assaults were committed with other weapons. Note that the 806,843 number does not include simple assaults, battery or break-ins. I suspect the inclusion of those would triple or quadruple the number. When I was a younger man with children in the house I never wanted firearms in our house. But now as a "young", 63 year old senior, kids gone and it's just my wife and I ... I have often thought about "what would I do if" type scenarios. News reports of assaults (including the many that you like to repeat here in this newsgroup in your anti-gun crusade) do nothing to convince me to become an anti-gun advocate. To the contrary, they reinforced my decision to get the necessary permits to own and carry a firearm (when appropriate) for personal defense and for that of my wife. To *me*, not doing so is irresponsible. Because your gated community is so very often under attack? Do you wear hoodies while black and wander the neighborhood? People are driven to paranoia by the news but it's more often those who have guns that become the victims. Gonna go to your safe and unlock it when the giant black men burst through your door to pistol whip you and take your wife's precious jewelry? Or will you keep it under your bed or in your nightstand for when someone comes into your home when you're not there to steal your stuff and find your gun? That's how most guns make it to the street. The people I worry about are the crazy assholes in movie theaters, mcdonalds, malls and such that get a hold of caches of weapons and unleash their frustrations against whomever in a random event. Or the recently fired employee who has no life outside of work. Just like this guy who killed his workmates. Got a lot of hostility at the Music Shoppe? Disgruntled employees? Better get a gun. ----------------------------------------- I have to admit. You live in a strange world. First of all, we do not live in a gated community. We *did* during the winter months in Florida for three winters, but we sold that property back in 2004 and no longer winter there. No, I am not paranoid. I am realistic. My state (MA) has some of, if not *the* toughest gun control laws in the nation that have been further modified and updated to be even more restrictive in recent years. The standard "For all lawful purposes" does not apply here anymore. You must have specific reasons to be issued a LTC class "A" license. The police departments (town and state) have determined that I have sufficient specific reasons. For purposes of responding to you, that's all the information you need. The bulk of your post is a bunch of goofy gibberish, typical of the ultra-left who spray lies and oblique innuendos, including the race card, hoping something will stick to support their ultra-liberal views. No, jps, I do not have visions of "giant black men" floating in my head nor am I concerned with "disgruntled employees" (mainly because I don't have any). I thought you were brighter and more mature. Guess I was wrong. Eisboch Anyone who says that my post do more to convince them to get a gun has some strange ideas rolling around in their head. I post about lunatics who go off in pubic or take out their own families. The number of home invasion robberies are so few, that the potential for anything to touch you or your immediate family are ridiculously low. I thought you were more circumspect and thoughtful. I was wrong. |
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On Oct 11, 2:10*am, jps wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:58:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" *wrote in message .. . On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:19:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" *wrote in message . .. On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:04:45 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: William Pettry had flown from Milwaukee to Jacksonville, Fla., for the Bears game against the Jaguars with his best friend, looking for a good time. (rest of story snipped) Yup we need better knife control here. It's not a weapons problem, it's a mental health problem further exacerbated by easy access to guns. *But I guess 10,000 gun deaths a year is an acceptable figure to you. *The CDC doesn't agree with you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be it mental health, drugs or whatever .... *there were 806,843 aggravated assaults in the USA *in 2009. *"Aggravated assault" *is defined as the unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury and involves the display of or threat to use a gun, knife, or other weapon. 26.9 percent were committed with hands, fists, and feet; 20.9 percent were committed with firearms; and 18.7 percent were committed with knives or cutting instruments. The remaining 33.5 percent of aggravated assaults were committed with other weapons. Note that the 806,843 number does not include simple assaults, battery or break-ins. *I suspect the inclusion of those would triple or quadruple the number. When I was a younger man with children in the house I never wanted firearms in our house. *But now as a "young", 63 year old senior, kids gone and it's just my wife and I ... *I *have often thought about "what would I do if" *type scenarios. * News reports of assaults (including the many that you like to repeat here in this newsgroup in your anti-gun crusade) *do nothing to convince me to become an anti-gun advocate. * To the contrary, they reinforced my decision to get the necessary permits to own and carry a firearm (when appropriate) *for personal defense and for that of my wife. To *me*, not doing so is irresponsible. Because your gated community is so very often under attack? *Do you wear hoodies while black and wander the neighborhood? People are driven to paranoia by the news but it's more often those who have guns that become the victims. *Gonna go to your safe and unlock it when the giant black men burst through your door to pistol whip you and take your wife's precious jewelry? *Or will you keep it under your bed or in your nightstand for when someone comes into your home when you're not there to steal your stuff and find your gun? That's how most guns make it to the street. The people I worry about are the crazy assholes in movie theaters, mcdonalds, malls and such that get a hold of caches of weapons and unleash their frustrations against whomever in a random event. *Or the recently fired employee who has no life outside of work. Just like this guy who killed his workmates. *Got a lot of hostility at the Music Shoppe? *Disgruntled employees? *Better get a gun. ----------------------------------------- I have to admit. *You live in a strange world. First of all, we do not live in a gated community. * We *did* during the winter months in Florida for three winters, but we sold that property back in 2004 and no longer winter there. No, I am not paranoid. *I am realistic. *My state (MA) *has some of, if not *the* toughest gun control laws in the nation that have been further modified and updated to be even more restrictive in recent years. *The standard *"For all lawful purposes" *does not apply here anymore. *You must have specific reasons to be issued a LTC class "A" license. *The police departments (town and state) have determined that I have sufficient specific reasons. For purposes of responding to you, that's all the information you need. The bulk of your post is a bunch of *goofy gibberish, typical of the ultra-left who spray lies and oblique innuendos, including the race card, hoping something will stick to support their ultra-liberal views. *No, jps, I do not have visions of "giant black men" *floating in my head nor am I concerned with "disgruntled employees" *(mainly because I don't have any). * * I thought you were brighter and more mature. *Guess I was wrong. Eisboch Anyone who says that my post do more to convince them to get a gun has some strange ideas rolling around in their head. *I post about lunatics who go off in pubic or take out their own families. *The number of home invasion robberies are so few, that the potential for anything to touch you or your immediate family are ridiculously low. I thought you were more circumspect and thoughtful. *I was wrong. You post that foolishness because that's really all you want to see. We're still waiting to hear your solution to these shooting problems. but you stay silent. Talk about narrow minded. |
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On 10/10/2012 10:27 PM, Tim wrote:
I'd love to have any one of these! But they demand a kings ransom to buy one. https://www.google.com/search?num=10....1.xovt-_i07rU I'm not into .22 revolvers, but 30 yrs ago a friend of mine had a 9 shot .22 and I fell in love with it. pain to load if under time, though. If only they could talk. Especially the silencer models. |
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Floridian Hospitality
In article 42471d53-4763-4233-b701-
, says... On Oct 10, 12:24*pm, Wayne.B wrote: On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:56:27 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: If I were interested in a 22, though, I'd get a 22. I like these Mark III's or the older Mark II's from Ruger: http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIITarget/models.html They're a bitch to break down completely for cleaning until you learn a very simple trick. Then, they're easy. :) === Breaking down is fairly easy, putting it back together is what gives people fits until they learn how to get the hammer and spring into the right position. In terms of speed and accuracy, a S&W 41 or an old Hi Standard Supermatic will run circles around the Ruger III. Finding a good Hi-Standard is hard to come by, Wayne. They've been out of business for years, but they were a top quality arm. If you find one worth buying, the go-to guy for working on High Standards was a gunsmith named Bob Shea who was an employee of the company before it was sold and moved from New England to Texas. I checked and if he is still living and still active, this is his contact information Bob Shea, 381 Quinnipiac Avenue, North Haven, CT 06473. Tel: 203-239-1012. Shea bench built and accurized High Standard semi auto pistols for many years. He actually did that for the factory and they sold his work output at a high premium. I remember reading about him in an old gun magazine. For all I know though by now he may be a ghost rider in the sky. |
Floridian Hospitality
On 10/11/2012 3:10 AM, jps wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:58:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: The bulk of your post is a bunch of goofy gibberish, typical of the ultra-left who spray lies and oblique innuendos, including the race card, hoping something will stick to support their ultra-liberal views. No, jps, I do not have visions of "giant black men" floating in my head nor am I concerned with "disgruntled employees" (mainly because I don't have any). I thought you were brighter and more mature. Guess I was wrong. Eisboch Anyone who says that my post do more to convince them to get a gun has some strange ideas rolling around in their head. I post about lunatics who go off in pubic or take out their own families. The number of home invasion robberies are so few, that the potential for anything to touch you or your immediate family are ridiculously low. I thought you were more circumspect and thoughtful. I was wrong. Home invasions are de rigueue among the low life, and the O'bama introduced, homeless and broke crowd. In the case of the latter, it's the poor folks who have lost all HOPE, pride and dignity who would be desperate enough to take such measures. The lunatics you speak of are products of their environment. They finally realized that HOPE and CHANGE were all lies and bull****. If you cared about your family, you'd teach them to protect themselves instead of taking them to gay pride rallies and parades, "in order to broaden their horizons". BTW: Wanna bet your kids will grow up to be racists just like you? |
Floridian Hospitality
On 10/11/2012 5:30 AM, Tim wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:10 am, jps wrote: On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:58:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:19:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:04:45 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: William Pettry had flown from Milwaukee to Jacksonville, Fla., for the Bears game against the Jaguars with his best friend, looking for a good time. (rest of story snipped) Yup we need better knife control here. It's not a weapons problem, it's a mental health problem further exacerbated by easy access to guns. But I guess 10,000 gun deaths a year is an acceptable figure to you. The CDC doesn't agree with you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be it mental health, drugs or whatever .... there were 806,843 aggravated assaults in the USA in 2009. "Aggravated assault" is defined as the unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury and involves the display of or threat to use a gun, knife, or other weapon. 26.9 percent were committed with hands, fists, and feet; 20.9 percent were committed with firearms; and 18.7 percent were committed with knives or cutting instruments. The remaining 33.5 percent of aggravated assaults were committed with other weapons. Note that the 806,843 number does not include simple assaults, battery or break-ins. I suspect the inclusion of those would triple or quadruple the number. When I was a younger man with children in the house I never wanted firearms in our house. But now as a "young", 63 year old senior, kids gone and it's just my wife and I ... I have often thought about "what would I do if" type scenarios. News reports of assaults (including the many that you like to repeat here in this newsgroup in your anti-gun crusade) do nothing to convince me to become an anti-gun advocate. To the contrary, they reinforced my decision to get the necessary permits to own and carry a firearm (when appropriate) for personal defense and for that of my wife. To *me*, not doing so is irresponsible. Because your gated community is so very often under attack? Do you wear hoodies while black and wander the neighborhood? People are driven to paranoia by the news but it's more often those who have guns that become the victims. Gonna go to your safe and unlock it when the giant black men burst through your door to pistol whip you and take your wife's precious jewelry? Or will you keep it under your bed or in your nightstand for when someone comes into your home when you're not there to steal your stuff and find your gun? That's how most guns make it to the street. The people I worry about are the crazy assholes in movie theaters, mcdonalds, malls and such that get a hold of caches of weapons and unleash their frustrations against whomever in a random event. Or the recently fired employee who has no life outside of work. Just like this guy who killed his workmates. Got a lot of hostility at the Music Shoppe? Disgruntled employees? Better get a gun. ----------------------------------------- I have to admit. You live in a strange world. First of all, we do not live in a gated community. We *did* during the winter months in Florida for three winters, but we sold that property back in 2004 and no longer winter there. No, I am not paranoid. I am realistic. My state (MA) has some of, if not *the* toughest gun control laws in the nation that have been further modified and updated to be even more restrictive in recent years. The standard "For all lawful purposes" does not apply here anymore. You must have specific reasons to be issued a LTC class "A" license. The police departments (town and state) have determined that I have sufficient specific reasons. For purposes of responding to you, that's all the information you need. The bulk of your post is a bunch of goofy gibberish, typical of the ultra-left who spray lies and oblique innuendos, including the race card, hoping something will stick to support their ultra-liberal views. No, jps, I do not have visions of "giant black men" floating in my head nor am I concerned with "disgruntled employees" (mainly because I don't have any). I thought you were brighter and more mature. Guess I was wrong. Eisboch Anyone who says that my post do more to convince them to get a gun has some strange ideas rolling around in their head. I post about lunatics who go off in pubic or take out their own families. The number of home invasion robberies are so few, that the potential for anything to touch you or your immediate family are ridiculously low. I thought you were more circumspect and thoughtful. I was wrong. You post that foolishness because that's really all you want to see. We're still waiting to hear your solution to these shooting problems. but you stay silent. Talk about narrow minded. Liberals are more often the problem, not the solution. |
Floridian Hospitality
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Floridian Hospitality
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Floridian Hospitality
In article ,
says... In article , says... On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:30:59 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote: On Oct 11, 2:10*am, jps wrote: On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 19:58:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" *wrote in message .. . On Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:19:57 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: "jps" *wrote in message . .. On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 21:04:45 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: William Pettry had flown from Milwaukee to Jacksonville, Fla., for the Bears game against the Jaguars with his best friend, looking for a good time. (rest of story snipped) Yup we need better knife control here. It's not a weapons problem, it's a mental health problem further exacerbated by easy access to guns. *But I guess 10,000 gun deaths a year is an acceptable figure to you. *The CDC doesn't agree with you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Be it mental health, drugs or whatever .... *there were 806,843 aggravated assaults in the USA *in 2009. *"Aggravated assault" *is defined as the unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury and involves the display of or threat to use a gun, knife, or other weapon. 26.9 percent were committed with hands, fists, and feet; 20.9 percent were committed with firearms; and 18.7 percent were committed with knives or cutting instruments. The remaining 33.5 percent of aggravated assaults were committed with other weapons. Note that the 806,843 number does not include simple assaults, battery or break-ins. *I suspect the inclusion of those would triple or quadruple the number. When I was a younger man with children in the house I never wanted firearms in our house. *But now as a "young", 63 year old senior, kids gone and it's just my wife and I ... *I *have often thought about "what would I do if" *type scenarios. * News reports of assaults (including the many that you like to repeat here in this newsgroup in your anti-gun crusade) *do nothing to convince me to become an anti-gun advocate. * To the contrary, they reinforced my decision to get the necessary permits to own and carry a firearm (when appropriate) *for personal defense and for that of my wife. To *me*, not doing so is irresponsible. Because your gated community is so very often under attack? *Do you wear hoodies while black and wander the neighborhood? People are driven to paranoia by the news but it's more often those who have guns that become the victims. *Gonna go to your safe and unlock it when the giant black men burst through your door to pistol whip you and take your wife's precious jewelry? *Or will you keep it under your bed or in your nightstand for when someone comes into your home when you're not there to steal your stuff and find your gun? That's how most guns make it to the street. The people I worry about are the crazy assholes in movie theaters, mcdonalds, malls and such that get a hold of caches of weapons and unleash their frustrations against whomever in a random event. *Or the recently fired employee who has no life outside of work. Just like this guy who killed his workmates. *Got a lot of hostility at the Music Shoppe? *Disgruntled employees? *Better get a gun. ----------------------------------------- I have to admit. *You live in a strange world. First of all, we do not live in a gated community. * We *did* during the winter months in Florida for three winters, but we sold that property back in 2004 and no longer winter there. No, I am not paranoid. *I am realistic. *My state (MA) *has some of, if not *the* toughest gun control laws in the nation that have been further modified and updated to be even more restrictive in recent years. *The standard *"For all lawful purposes" *does not apply here anymore. *You must have specific reasons to be issued a LTC class "A" license. *The police departments (town and state) have determined that I have sufficient specific reasons. For purposes of responding to you, that's all the information you need. The bulk of your post is a bunch of *goofy gibberish, typical of the ultra-left who spray lies and oblique innuendos, including the race card, hoping something will stick to support their ultra-liberal views. *No, jps, I do not have visions of "giant black men" *floating in my head nor am I concerned with "disgruntled employees" *(mainly because I don't have any). * * I thought you were brighter and more mature. *Guess I was wrong. Eisboch Anyone who says that my post do more to convince them to get a gun has some strange ideas rolling around in their head. *I post about lunatics who go off in pubic or take out their own families. *The number of home invasion robberies are so few, that the potential for anything to touch you or your immediate family are ridiculously low. I thought you were more circumspect and thoughtful. *I was wrong. You post that foolishness because that's really all you want to see. We're still waiting to hear your solution to these shooting problems. but you stay silent. Talk about narrow minded. It's so ****ing obvious. We need to have some intersection between gun ownership and mental health, at the very least. Currently, there's no such thing. It's hard enough to keep guns out of the hands of felons who are, by law, not supposed to possess. We've swung so far to the right in this country, not even the president is willing to recognize the need and call for reform. You are tilting at windmills. I'm not interested in the politics of guns but I see no reason not to require first-time gun purchasers to take a serious hands-on classroom and range training course that takes place over several days or evenings so they earn a certificate that means something before they exercise their right to buy a legal firearm. Maybe gun owners should have to reprove their knowledge of gun laws and gun handling every five years and get their certificate re-stamped. The other issue of gun ownership is extremely complex. Pay your taxes and your debts Harry! |
Floridian Hospitality
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote:
In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 , says... On Oct 10, 9:43*am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. |
Floridian Hospitality
In article ,
says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 , says... On Oct 10, 9:43*am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. A purpose of a 22 is to be able to fire lots of round at a range or in your backyard and just become more proficient at handling and shooting a firearm. Using a conversion kit will help you do that for sure but because of the differences in the rounds I don't think it will add much to your proficiency in firing bigger rounds in the same handgun for the reasons already stated. Another reasons to get an inexpensive Ruger is the cost of magazines. Ruger magazines are around $10 I think. You can buy a handful of them and load them up at the range and fire without reloading every couple of minutes. Plus you can try out different rounds in different magazines to see which work the best for you and the gun. How much do spare mags cost for that conversion kit 22? I think the Ruger or something like it would be a lot more fun than the conversion kit. In fact unless you need the SIG for some other reason, a nice 22 may be all the gun you want or need. Thank you by the way for not being a Nelson Muntz clone in your reply. Too many posters seem to think imitating Muntz is clever when in fact it is childish. |
Floridian Hospitality
In article ,
says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 , says... On Oct 10, 9:43*am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. Of course it does.... |
Floridian Hospitality
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:31:17 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote:
In article , says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 , says... On Oct 10, 9:43*am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. A purpose of a 22 is to be able to fire lots of round at a range or in your backyard and just become more proficient at handling and shooting a firearm. Using a conversion kit will help you do that for sure but because of the differences in the rounds I don't think it will add much to your proficiency in firing bigger rounds in the same handgun for the reasons already stated. Another reasons to get an inexpensive Ruger is the cost of magazines. Ruger magazines are around $10 I think. You can buy a handful of them and load them up at the range and fire without reloading every couple of minutes. Plus you can try out different rounds in different magazines to see which work the best for you and the gun. How much do spare mags cost for that conversion kit 22? I think the Ruger or something like it would be a lot more fun than the conversion kit. In fact unless you need the SIG for some other reason, a nice 22 may be all the gun you want or need. Thank you by the way for not being a Nelson Muntz clone in your reply. Too many posters seem to think imitating Muntz is clever when in fact it is childish. New, the Sig magazines run about $40. From what I could see, quickly, the Ruger magazines are in the $35 range, new. Maybe they're both available somewhere for a lot less, I don't know. Now, back to the discussion. If the purpose in investing in a .22 pistol was for practice, then the conversion kit would serve the purpose. It may not significantly improve performance when going back to the .40 caliber (or whichever)l, but neither would a separate handgun. Don't know and don't care who Nelson Muntz is. |
Floridian Hospitality
On 10/14/2012 3:31 PM, EmpacherFan wrote:
In article , says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 @i14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:43 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. A purpose of a 22 is to be able to fire lots of round at a range or in your backyard and just become more proficient at handling and shooting a firearm. Using a conversion kit will help you do that for sure but because of the differences in the rounds I don't think it will add much to your proficiency in firing bigger rounds in the same handgun for the reasons already stated. Another reasons to get an inexpensive Ruger is the cost of magazines. Ruger magazines are around $10 I think. You can buy a handful of them and load them up at the range and fire without reloading every couple of minutes. Plus you can try out different rounds in different magazines to see which work the best for you and the gun. How much do spare mags cost for that conversion kit 22? I think the Ruger or something like it would be a lot more fun than the conversion kit. In fact unless you need the SIG for some other reason, a nice 22 may be all the gun you want or need. Thank you by the way for not being a Nelson Muntz clone in your reply. Too many posters seem to think imitating Muntz is clever when in fact it is childish. And I just googled Muntz and found it's a cartoon, and obviously your reference was a derogatory shot at posters here... Thank *you* for not being childish, and btw, welcome to rec.boats. You are now the object of your own scorn. snerk |
Floridian Hospitality
On Oct 14, 3:02*pm, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:31:17 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 , says... On Oct 10, 9:43 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. A purpose of a 22 is to be able to fire lots of round at a range or in your backyard and just become more proficient at handling and shooting a firearm. Using a conversion kit will help you do that for sure but because of the differences in the rounds I don't think it will add much to your proficiency in firing bigger rounds in the same handgun for the reasons already stated. Another reasons to get an inexpensive Ruger is the cost of magazines. Ruger magazines are around $10 I think. You can buy a handful of them and load them up at the range and fire without reloading every couple of minutes. Plus you can try out different rounds in different magazines to see which work the best for you and the gun. How much do spare mags cost for that conversion kit 22? I think the Ruger or something like it would be a lot more fun than the conversion kit. In fact unless you need the SIG for some other reason, a nice 22 may be all the gun you want or need. Thank you by the way for not being a Nelson Muntz clone in your reply. Too many posters seem to think imitating Muntz is clever when in fact it is childish. New, the Sig magazines run about $40. From what I could see, quickly, the Ruger magazines are in the $35 range, new. Maybe they're both available somewhere for a lot less, I don't know. Now, back to the discussion. If the purpose in investing in a .22 pistol was for practice, then the conversion kit would serve the purpose. It may not significantly improve performance when going back to the .40 caliber (or whichever)l, but neither would a separate handgun. Don't know and don't care who Nelson Muntz is. John, Carabela's has OE ruger .22 clips for $26.00 and free shipping. Ables has aftermarket for $17- don't know about shipping though http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/ruge...457_15463.html Buds- $16.74 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...cturers_id/369 |
Floridian Hospitality
On 10/14/2012 3:41 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says... On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:54:49 -0400, EmpacherFan wrote: In article 0fbd714d-0101-4ac3-b0a5-da80addeaa79 @i14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:43 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article c8d644c3-cbd3-4457-8d6e-aaf02ce3e028 @n7g2000pbj.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 10, 9:44 am, EmpacherFan wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:41:30 -0700, jps wrote: snippage Still thinking about the Sig Sauer P226. This one, with a conversion kit: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...lassic-22.aspx Good idea, huh? I carry for work, but not a SIG, usually a Glock 22 or a 1911, plus another handgun for backup. The Sig P226 is a nice pistol, though. I'm not sure what you are trying to gain by fitting it with a 22 slide and works. The recoil, muzzle flip and noise will be totally different between the two rounds and at distance at a target, so will the impact of gravity, so you won't be gaining the shooting skills you want with a 40, 45 or even a 9 round in a defense pistol by running 22s through it. I've tried a few of these combos at the range. They were fun but shooting 22 rounds isn't going to help you become proficient firing larger rounds in the same basic pistol. Wow, you have all the perfect weapons, for the perfect environment... You sound a lot like a recent MIA poster here who always had the perfect tool for the job... :) I'm a federal cop. The Glock was issued to me. I encounter a lot of firearms. I don't think the 22 slide kits are anything more than a gimmick. What's your point? The .22 kits (from what I understand,) were used for training purposes as far back as WW 1 to conserve bigger caliber ammunition. Same feel and break down as the .45 ACP but a whole lot cheaper to shoot on the range. I have a WW1 issue British .303 Enfield rifle chambered in .22 single shot for that same reason. You are absolutely correct as far as it goes. The pistol feels the same and breaks down the same, but it doesn't shoot the same. There's much more recoil and muzzle flip from a .40 S&W round than a .22LR round in the same semi-auto. Also consider that the .40 round weighs about five times what the .22 round weighs. Ten rounds of .22 in a magazine is going to weigh a lot less than 10 rounds of .40 in a magazine, and that will change the balance of the weapon considerably. Several posters have suggested the way to go is with a nice defensive semi-auto and a separate and much less expensive .22 semi-auto. I agree. Why? If the purpose of the .22 is to practice cheaply, and the .22 conversion kits aren't the way to go because they don't have the same heft, kick,balance, etc., etc., what is gained by practicing with a totally different, lightweight, low-kick .22? The logic there escapes me. Of course it does.... Please explain, Loogie. Why does the logic escape him? Be specific and cite where appropriate. |
Floridian Hospitality
On Oct 14, 2:31*pm, EmpacherFan wrote:
Thank you by the way for not being a Nelson Muntz clone in your reply. Too many posters seem to think imitating Muntz is clever when in fact it is childish. agreed! |
Floridian Hospitality
In article b74e943e-d7f4-42ba-8aa8-216b144b45f7
@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com, says... On Oct 14, 2:31*pm, EmpacherFan wrote: Thank you by the way for not being a Nelson Muntz clone in your reply. Too many posters seem to think imitating Muntz is clever when in fact it is childish. agreed! I really do not understand the need of some posters on usenet to toss insults at other posters with almost every post they write. I'm glad someone agrees. |
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