Eisboch wrote:


"Earl" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:


wrote in message ...

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:46:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 13:07:01 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 07:59:29 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Solar doesn't work? Wind energy doesn't work? Nuclear doesn't
work? Yep,
you are insane all right.

They "work" they just don't make economic sense.

===

I'm thinking of doing a small scale solar electric project just for
grins since I've got a nice south facing roof and plenty of that
famous Florida sunshine.

The price of panels is now down to about $1/watt if you buy on EBAY.
System costs for batteries/inverters/wiring/installation no doubt more
than double or triple the panel cost but I don't know how much.

At what price point can we get a decent ROI assuming 10 cents a KWH
from LCEC and a 12 to 15 year system life?



I just looked at that Ebay ad. They are a pretty good deal at a buck a
watt.
The real plan these days is to ditch the whole battery thing and use a
grid tie inverter. That is really the only way to get the rebates too.
It is worth looking at if the $1 a watt thing is true.
My first PV project will be a solar pool pump.

The other issue is finding a roofer who will guarantee a roof with
collectors on it.
My pool collectors are on a pan roof over a shelter I really don't
care that much about. I am out of real estate there and I don't even
have as many collectors as I want to heat the pool.
It does a good job on the spa tho.

---------------------------------------------------------

I fooled around with a home-made pool heater in Jupiter, Florida. I
coiled about 200 feet of 3/4" ID black PVC tubing onto a huge plywood
topped frame that I also painted black to increase the total
emissivity. The frame was angled to get the most direct exposure to
the sun. Put a small, half horsepower sump pump in the pool and ran
it all day during daylight hours, cycling water from the pool,
through the pvc and back to the pool. I had thermocouples on the
PVC inlet and outlets to measure the delta T across the PVC. During
the day it often raised the water temperature about 2-3 degrees as
measured at the outlet. If I shut the pump off for an hour or two,
the water in the PVC got hot enough to scald you when the pump was
turned back on.

Problem was, this was during the winter months and anything gained
during the day was quickly lost at night due to evaporation. It
never heated the pool. Gave up and installed a 150,000 BTU electric
pool heater. That did the trick.




I'd hate to see that electric bill. Let me guess - an extra $400/month
in the winter?

-----------------------------------------------

No, I don't remember it being that high. It ran for a solid week to
get the pool temperature up,
but once there it only had to run to recover from any losses during
the evening.
Believe me, if it were $400 per month, I wouldn't have bothered.


I ran mine for two weeks in the winter when some friends were in town
and it was in the mid 60's at night. My bill for that month was $700.
It would have been cheaper to buy a room at a local hotel so they had
pool access! Not as fun, though...

On Sep 5, 9:02*pm, Earl wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Earl" *wrote in message
m...

Eisboch wrote:

wrote in messagenews:u0oa481vp52h48ddkqtkrdtmbkdacci84o@4ax .com...

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:46:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 13:07:01 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 07:59:29 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Solar doesn't work? Wind energy doesn't work? Nuclear doesn't
work? Yep,
you are insane all right.

They "work" they just don't make economic sense.

===

I'm thinking of doing a small scale solar electric project just for
grins since I've got a nice south facing roof and plenty of that
famous Florida sunshine.

The price of panels is now down to about $1/watt if you buy on EBAY.
System costs for batteries/inverters/wiring/installation no doubt more
than double or triple the panel cost but I don't know how much.

At what price point can we get a decent ROI assuming 10 cents a KWH
from LCEC and a 12 to 15 year system life?

I just looked at that Ebay ad. They are a pretty good deal at a buck a
watt.
The real plan these days is to ditch the whole battery thing and use a
grid tie inverter. That is really the only way to get the rebates too.
It is worth looking at if the $1 a watt thing is true.
My first PV project will be a solar pool pump.

The other issue is finding a roofer who will guarantee a roof with
collectors on it.
My pool collectors are on a pan roof over a shelter I really don't
care that much about. I am out of real estate there and I don't even
have as many collectors as I want to heat the pool.
It does a good job on the spa tho.

---------------------------------------------------------

I fooled around with a home-made pool heater in Jupiter, Florida. I
coiled about 200 feet of 3/4" ID black PVC tubing onto a huge plywood
topped frame that I also painted black to increase the total
emissivity. The frame was angled to get the most direct exposure to
the sun. * Put a small, half horsepower sump pump in the pool and ran
it all day during daylight hours, cycling water from the pool,
through the pvc and back to the pool. * I had thermocouples on the
PVC inlet and outlets to measure the delta T across the PVC. *During
the day it often raised the water temperature about 2-3 degrees as
measured at the outlet. * If I shut the pump off for an hour or two,
the water in the PVC got hot enough to scald you when the pump was
turned back on.

Problem was, this was during the winter months and anything gained
during the day was quickly lost at night due to evaporation. *It
never heated the pool. * Gave up and installed a 150,000 BTU electric
pool heater. *That did the trick.

I'd hate to see that electric bill. *Let me guess - an extra $400/month
in the winter?

-----------------------------------------------

No, I don't remember it being that high. *It ran for a solid week to
get the pool temperature up,
but once there it only had to run to recover from any losses during
the evening.
Believe me, if it were $400 per month, I wouldn't have bothered.

I ran mine for two weeks in the winter when some friends were in town
and it was in the mid 60's at night. *My bill for that month was $700.
It would have been cheaper to buy a room at a local hotel so they had
pool access! *Not as fun, though...

What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.

On 9/5/2012 8:46 PM, North Star wrote:
On Sep 5, 9:02 pm, Earl wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Earl" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

wrote in messagenews:u0oa481vp52h48ddkqtkrdtmbkdacci84o@4ax .com...

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:46:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 13:07:01 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 07:59:29 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Solar doesn't work? Wind energy doesn't work? Nuclear doesn't
work? Yep,
you are insane all right.

They "work" they just don't make economic sense.

===

I'm thinking of doing a small scale solar electric project just for
grins since I've got a nice south facing roof and plenty of that
famous Florida sunshine.

The price of panels is now down to about $1/watt if you buy on EBAY.
System costs for batteries/inverters/wiring/installation no doubt more
than double or triple the panel cost but I don't know how much.

At what price point can we get a decent ROI assuming 10 cents a KWH
from LCEC and a 12 to 15 year system life?

I just looked at that Ebay ad. They are a pretty good deal at a buck a
watt.
The real plan these days is to ditch the whole battery thing and use a
grid tie inverter. That is really the only way to get the rebates too.
It is worth looking at if the $1 a watt thing is true.
My first PV project will be a solar pool pump.

The other issue is finding a roofer who will guarantee a roof with
collectors on it.
My pool collectors are on a pan roof over a shelter I really don't
care that much about. I am out of real estate there and I don't even
have as many collectors as I want to heat the pool.
It does a good job on the spa tho.

---------------------------------------------------------

I fooled around with a home-made pool heater in Jupiter, Florida. I
coiled about 200 feet of 3/4" ID black PVC tubing onto a huge plywood
topped frame that I also painted black to increase the total
emissivity. The frame was angled to get the most direct exposure to
the sun. Put a small, half horsepower sump pump in the pool and ran
it all day during daylight hours, cycling water from the pool,
through the pvc and back to the pool. I had thermocouples on the
PVC inlet and outlets to measure the delta T across the PVC. During
the day it often raised the water temperature about 2-3 degrees as
measured at the outlet. If I shut the pump off for an hour or two,
the water in the PVC got hot enough to scald you when the pump was
turned back on.

Problem was, this was during the winter months and anything gained
during the day was quickly lost at night due to evaporation. It
never heated the pool. Gave up and installed a 150,000 BTU electric
pool heater. That did the trick.

I'd hate to see that electric bill. Let me guess - an extra $400/month
in the winter?

-----------------------------------------------

No, I don't remember it being that high. It ran for a solid week to
get the pool temperature up,
but once there it only had to run to recover from any losses during
the evening.
Believe me, if it were $400 per month, I wouldn't have bothered.

I ran mine for two weeks in the winter when some friends were in town
and it was in the mid 60's at night. My bill for that month was $700.
It would have been cheaper to buy a room at a local hotel so they had
pool access! Not as fun, though...

What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.

Civilized would be more like it. Most folks don't go for your inuit
lifestyle.

In article om,
says...

On 9/5/2012 8:46 PM, North Star wrote:
On Sep 5, 9:02 pm, Earl wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Earl" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

wrote in messagenews:u0oa481vp52h48ddkqtkrdtmbkdacci84o@4ax .com...

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:46:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 13:07:01 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 07:59:29 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Solar doesn't work? Wind energy doesn't work? Nuclear doesn't
work? Yep,
you are insane all right.

They "work" they just don't make economic sense.

===

I'm thinking of doing a small scale solar electric project just for
grins since I've got a nice south facing roof and plenty of that
famous Florida sunshine.

The price of panels is now down to about $1/watt if you buy on EBAY.
System costs for batteries/inverters/wiring/installation no doubt more
than double or triple the panel cost but I don't know how much.

At what price point can we get a decent ROI assuming 10 cents a KWH
from LCEC and a 12 to 15 year system life?

I just looked at that Ebay ad. They are a pretty good deal at a buck a
watt.
The real plan these days is to ditch the whole battery thing and use a
grid tie inverter. That is really the only way to get the rebates too.
It is worth looking at if the $1 a watt thing is true.
My first PV project will be a solar pool pump.

The other issue is finding a roofer who will guarantee a roof with
collectors on it.
My pool collectors are on a pan roof over a shelter I really don't
care that much about. I am out of real estate there and I don't even
have as many collectors as I want to heat the pool.
It does a good job on the spa tho.

---------------------------------------------------------

I fooled around with a home-made pool heater in Jupiter, Florida. I
coiled about 200 feet of 3/4" ID black PVC tubing onto a huge plywood
topped frame that I also painted black to increase the total
emissivity. The frame was angled to get the most direct exposure to
the sun. Put a small, half horsepower sump pump in the pool and ran
it all day during daylight hours, cycling water from the pool,
through the pvc and back to the pool. I had thermocouples on the
PVC inlet and outlets to measure the delta T across the PVC. During
the day it often raised the water temperature about 2-3 degrees as
measured at the outlet. If I shut the pump off for an hour or two,
the water in the PVC got hot enough to scald you when the pump was
turned back on.

Problem was, this was during the winter months and anything gained
during the day was quickly lost at night due to evaporation. It
never heated the pool. Gave up and installed a 150,000 BTU electric
pool heater. That did the trick.

I'd hate to see that electric bill. Let me guess - an extra $400/month
in the winter?

-----------------------------------------------

No, I don't remember it being that high. It ran for a solid week to
get the pool temperature up,
but once there it only had to run to recover from any losses during
the evening.
Believe me, if it were $400 per month, I wouldn't have bothered.

I ran mine for two weeks in the winter when some friends were in town
and it was in the mid 60's at night. My bill for that month was $700.
It would have been cheaper to buy a room at a local hotel so they had
pool access! Not as fun, though...

What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.

Civilized would be more like it. Most folks don't go for your inuit
lifestyle.

That's for sure!

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 17:46:35 -0700, North Star wrote:


What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.

It's a Florida thing. If you go down there in the winter, the locals
will be wearing their winter jackets, sometimes down jackets. The
tourists from Michigan will be bare chested, riding in the back of a
pickup truck, heading to the beach for a swim.

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 01:35:12 +0000 (UTC), thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 17:46:35 -0700, North Star wrote:


What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.

It's a Florida thing. If you go down there in the winter, the locals
will be wearing their winter jackets, sometimes down jackets. The
tourists from Michigan will be bare chested, riding in the back of a
pickup truck, heading to the beach for a swim.

===

Except for the "Spring Breakers" the Michigan folks seem to have more
sense than that. When we see adults swimming at the beach in the
winter we usually assume they're Canadian.

On Sep 5, 11:39*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 01:35:12 +0000 (UTC), thunder
wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 17:46:35 -0700, North Star wrote:

What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.

It's a Florida thing. *If you go down there in the winter, the locals
will be wearing their winter jackets, sometimes down jackets. *The
tourists from Michigan will be bare chested, riding in the back of a
pickup truck, heading to the beach for a swim.

===

Except for the "Spring Breakers" the Michigan folks seem to have more
sense than that. * When we see adults swimming at the beach in the
winter we usually assume they're Canadian.

...After an unusually hot summer... here's todays info from the buoy
off Halifax Harbour..
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=44258

On Wed, 5 Sep 2012 20:33:45 -0700 (PDT), North Star
wrote:

Except for the "Spring Breakers" the Michigan folks seem to have more
sense than that. * When we see adults swimming at the beach in the
winter we usually assume they're Canadian.

..After an unusually hot summer... here's todays info from the buoy
off Halifax Harbour..
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=44258

===

Dayummm! 52.7 F ?? Might as well chill it down a little more and
cube it up for the drinks. Even in mid winter the Gulf is still in
the mid to upper 60s, even warmer on the east coast near Miami and
Lauderdale.

"North Star" wrote in message
...

On Sep 5, 9:02 pm, Earl wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"Earl" wrote in message
m...

Eisboch wrote:

wrote in messagenews:u0oa481vp52h48ddkqtkrdtmbkdacci84o@4ax .com...

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:46:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 13:07:01 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2012 07:59:29 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Solar doesn't work? Wind energy doesn't work? Nuclear doesn't
work? Yep,
you are insane all right.

They "work" they just don't make economic sense.

===

I'm thinking of doing a small scale solar electric project just for
grins since I've got a nice south facing roof and plenty of that
famous Florida sunshine.

The price of panels is now down to about $1/watt if you buy on EBAY.
System costs for batteries/inverters/wiring/installation no doubt more
than double or triple the panel cost but I don't know how much.

At what price point can we get a decent ROI assuming 10 cents a KWH
from LCEC and a 12 to 15 year system life?

I just looked at that Ebay ad. They are a pretty good deal at a buck a
watt.
The real plan these days is to ditch the whole battery thing and use a
grid tie inverter. That is really the only way to get the rebates too.
It is worth looking at if the $1 a watt thing is true.
My first PV project will be a solar pool pump.

The other issue is finding a roofer who will guarantee a roof with
collectors on it.
My pool collectors are on a pan roof over a shelter I really don't
care that much about. I am out of real estate there and I don't even
have as many collectors as I want to heat the pool.
It does a good job on the spa tho.

---------------------------------------------------------

I fooled around with a home-made pool heater in Jupiter, Florida. I
coiled about 200 feet of 3/4" ID black PVC tubing onto a huge plywood
topped frame that I also painted black to increase the total
emissivity. The frame was angled to get the most direct exposure to
the sun. Put a small, half horsepower sump pump in the pool and ran
it all day during daylight hours, cycling water from the pool,
through the pvc and back to the pool. I had thermocouples on the
PVC inlet and outlets to measure the delta T across the PVC. During
the day it often raised the water temperature about 2-3 degrees as
measured at the outlet. If I shut the pump off for an hour or two,
the water in the PVC got hot enough to scald you when the pump was
turned back on.

Problem was, this was during the winter months and anything gained
during the day was quickly lost at night due to evaporation. It
never heated the pool. Gave up and installed a 150,000 BTU electric
pool heater. That did the trick.

I'd hate to see that electric bill. Let me guess - an extra $400/month
in the winter?

-----------------------------------------------

No, I don't remember it being that high. It ran for a solid week to
get the pool temperature up,
but once there it only had to run to recover from any losses during
the evening.
Believe me, if it were $400 per month, I wouldn't have bothered.

I ran mine for two weeks in the winter when some friends were in town
and it was in the mid 60's at night. My bill for that month was $700.
It would have been cheaper to buy a room at a local hotel so they had
pool access! Not as fun, though...

What's wrong with mid 60F water.
Y'all sure have gone and gotten sissified.


------------------------------
I have wetsuits for cold water. In San Diego now and use my rash guard and
shorty suit to surf and the water is only 64. My pool has solar to heat it.
Took out the gas heater years ago. Used it twice to bring up the
temperature for early in the year swim party. Gas meter little needle
looked like the front of a Cessna.