On 7/18/12 1:57 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 7/17/12 8:53 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:35 pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 7/17/12 7:08 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jul 17, 10:48 am, thumper wrote:
On 7/17/2012 5:45 AM, Tim wrote:

And what marvels me is those who feel that if science can't prove it,
then there is (nor can not be ) any other explanation.

Undoubtedly there are *many* things that science will never "prove".
That doesn't make supernatural explanations valid.

You're right. but "supernatural explanations" shouldn't be discounted
because of such.

Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

I am. Why should I not be? I'm not discounting science, but I'm also
not discounting anything supernatural or divine. No Harry, I'm not a
close minded person as you seem to like to paint Christians to be. in
fact, I'd think I'd ;like to be considered open-minded. Not choosing
only one side.

That to me is irrational.




There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support "the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

--------------------------------------------------------

There is, Harry and it's very serious. There are millions and millions of
people who support and demonstrate it everyday. It can be summed
up in a single word.

Faith.

Not all have it. You obviously don't. I don't. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't exist.


"Faith" isn't serious evidence.

"X ` Man" wrote in message
...

On 7/18/12 1:57 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 7/17/12 8:53 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:35 pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 7/17/12 7:08 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jul 17, 10:48 am, thumper wrote:
On 7/17/2012 5:45 AM, Tim wrote:

And what marvels me is those who feel that if science can't
prove it,
then there is (nor can not be ) any other explanation.

Undoubtedly there are *many* things that science will never
"prove".
That doesn't make supernatural explanations valid.

You're right. but "supernatural explanations" shouldn't be
discounted
because of such.

Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

I am. Why should I not be? I'm not discounting science, but I'm
also
not discounting anything supernatural or divine. No Harry, I'm not
a
close minded person as you seem to like to paint Christians to be.
in
fact, I'd think I'd ;like to be considered open-minded. Not
choosing
only one side.

That to me is irrational.




There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support
"the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

--------------------------------------------------------

There is, Harry and it's very serious. There are millions and
millions of
people who support and demonstrate it everyday. It can be summed
up in a single word.

Faith.

Not all have it. You obviously don't. I don't. But that doesn't
mean
it doesn't exist.


"Faith" isn't serious evidence.

------------------------------------------------

If "Faith" isn't serious evidence of something, what are you
complaining about?
For those who have embraced it, it is the most significant cause of
millions upon
millions of other people's lifestyles, views on controversial issues
and even
why we are all here in the first place. "Faith" has an enormous
affect on how
people think and act world wide . If that isn't serious evidence of
something,
I don't know what is.

For those of us that lack it, we may not understand it. Doesn't mean
it doesn't
exist. I tend not to ridicule or attempt to destroy in others
something that I don't
have or understand. You tend to demonstrate otherwise.

On 7/18/2012 8:30 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
...

On 7/18/12 1:57 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 7/17/12 8:53 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:35 pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 7/17/12 7:08 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jul 17, 10:48 am, thumper wrote:
On 7/17/2012 5:45 AM, Tim wrote:

And what marvels me is those who feel that if science can't prove
it,
then there is (nor can not be ) any other explanation.

Undoubtedly there are *many* things that science will never "prove".
That doesn't make supernatural explanations valid.

You're right. but "supernatural explanations" shouldn't be discounted
because of such.

Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

I am. Why should I not be? I'm not discounting science, but I'm also
not discounting anything supernatural or divine. No Harry, I'm not a
close minded person as you seem to like to paint Christians to be. in
fact, I'd think I'd ;like to be considered open-minded. Not choosing
only one side.

That to me is irrational.




There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support "the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

--------------------------------------------------------

There is, Harry and it's very serious. There are millions and
millions of
people who support and demonstrate it everyday. It can be summed
up in a single word.

Faith.

Not all have it. You obviously don't. I don't. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't exist.


"Faith" isn't serious evidence.

------------------------------------------------

If "Faith" isn't serious evidence of something, what are you
complaining about?
For those who have embraced it, it is the most significant cause of
millions upon
millions of other people's lifestyles, views on controversial issues and
even
why we are all here in the first place. "Faith" has an enormous affect
on how
people think and act world wide . If that isn't serious evidence of
something,
I don't know what is.

For those of us that lack it, we may not understand it. Doesn't mean it
doesn't
exist. I tend not to ridicule or attempt to destroy in others
something that I don't
have or understand. You tend to demonstrate otherwise.


Well said.
This is just the kind of rational guidance Harry needs.

On 7/18/12 8:30 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
...

On 7/18/12 1:57 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 7/17/12 8:53 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:35 pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 7/17/12 7:08 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jul 17, 10:48 am, thumper wrote:
On 7/17/2012 5:45 AM, Tim wrote:

And what marvels me is those who feel that if science can't prove
it,
then there is (nor can not be ) any other explanation.

Undoubtedly there are *many* things that science will never "prove".
That doesn't make supernatural explanations valid.

You're right. but "supernatural explanations" shouldn't be discounted
because of such.

Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

I am. Why should I not be? I'm not discounting science, but I'm also
not discounting anything supernatural or divine. No Harry, I'm not a
close minded person as you seem to like to paint Christians to be. in
fact, I'd think I'd ;like to be considered open-minded. Not choosing
only one side.

That to me is irrational.




There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support "the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

--------------------------------------------------------

There is, Harry and it's very serious. There are millions and
millions of
people who support and demonstrate it everyday. It can be summed
up in a single word.

Faith.

Not all have it. You obviously don't. I don't. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't exist.


"Faith" isn't serious evidence.

------------------------------------------------

If "Faith" isn't serious evidence of something, what are you
complaining about?
For those who have embraced it, it is the most significant cause of
millions upon
millions of other people's lifestyles, views on controversial issues and
even
why we are all here in the first place. "Faith" has an enormous affect
on how
people think and act world wide . If that isn't serious evidence of
something,
I don't know what is.

For those of us that lack it, we may not understand it. Doesn't mean it
doesn't
exist. I tend not to ridicule or attempt to destroy in others
something that I don't
have or understand. You tend to demonstrate otherwise.



Faith, as it is being discussed here, is not serious evidence of
anything beyond belief.

I don't give a damn if the "faithful" believe in the easter bunny, santa
claus, jesus or punxsutawney phil. The problems arise when such
believers try to force their "faith" and their religiously based beliefs
onto non-believers or those who believe differently. That is happening
with increasing frequency and nastiness in this country.

"X ` Man" wrote in message
...


Faith, as it is being discussed here, is not serious evidence of
anything beyond belief.
---------------------------------------------------------

No sir. Faith is much more than a belief. That's why I know I don't
have it, nor do you. But, I see serious evidence of it's existence
in others every day.
--------------------------------------------------------

I don't give a damn if the "faithful" believe in the easter bunny,
santa
claus, jesus or punxsutawney phil. The problems arise when such
believers try to force their "faith" and their religiously based
beliefs
onto non-believers or those who believe differently. That is happening
with increasing frequency and nastiness in this country.
--------------------------------------------------------
This last paragraph is simply something you believe.
Keep it up. These sessions do you so much good! ;-)

On 7/18/12 9:50 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
...


Faith, as it is being discussed here, is not serious evidence of
anything beyond belief.
---------------------------------------------------------

No sir. Faith is much more than a belief. That's why I know I don't
have it, nor do you. But, I see serious evidence of it's existence
in others every day.
--------------------------------------------------------

I don't give a damn if the "faithful" believe in the easter bunny, santa
claus, jesus or punxsutawney phil. The problems arise when such
believers try to force their "faith" and their religiously based beliefs
onto non-believers or those who believe differently. That is happening
with increasing frequency and nastiness in this country.
--------------------------------------------------------
This last paragraph is simply something you believe.
Keep it up. These sessions do you so much good! ;-)



It's not "simply something" I believe. There is plenty of factual,
undeniable evidence that "the religious" are working diligently to force
their religiously based beliefs onto society.

Oh, and the "fact" that you see "serious evidence" of faith in others
does not mean there is anything to that "faith" beyond faith itself.
It's easy enough to "believe" via faith in a creator. Let's see some
proof of a creator's existence, beyond the faith that there is one.

On 7/18/2012 9:50 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
...


Faith, as it is being discussed here, is not serious evidence of
anything beyond belief.
---------------------------------------------------------

No sir. Faith is much more than a belief. That's why I know I don't
have it, nor do you. But, I see serious evidence of it's existence
in others every day.
--------------------------------------------------------

I don't give a damn if the "faithful" believe in the easter bunny, santa
claus, jesus or punxsutawney phil. The problems arise when such
believers try to force their "faith" and their religiously based beliefs
onto non-believers or those who believe differently. That is happening
with increasing frequency and nastiness in this country.
--------------------------------------------------------
This last paragraph is simply something you believe.
Keep it up. These sessions do you so much good! ;-)




Damn you for the coffee spritzed on my keyboard. ;-)

On 7/18/2012 9:13 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 7/18/12 8:30 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
...

On 7/18/12 1:57 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 7/17/12 8:53 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:35 pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 7/17/12 7:08 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jul 17, 10:48 am, thumper wrote:
On 7/17/2012 5:45 AM, Tim wrote:

And what marvels me is those who feel that if science can't prove
it,
then there is (nor can not be ) any other explanation.

Undoubtedly there are *many* things that science will never "prove".
That doesn't make supernatural explanations valid.

You're right. but "supernatural explanations" shouldn't be discounted
because of such.

Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

I am. Why should I not be? I'm not discounting science, but I'm also
not discounting anything supernatural or divine. No Harry, I'm not a
close minded person as you seem to like to paint Christians to be. in
fact, I'd think I'd ;like to be considered open-minded. Not choosing
only one side.

That to me is irrational.




There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support "the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

--------------------------------------------------------

There is, Harry and it's very serious. There are millions and
millions of
people who support and demonstrate it everyday. It can be summed
up in a single word.

Faith.

Not all have it. You obviously don't. I don't. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't exist.


"Faith" isn't serious evidence.

------------------------------------------------

If "Faith" isn't serious evidence of something, what are you
complaining about?
For those who have embraced it, it is the most significant cause of
millions upon
millions of other people's lifestyles, views on controversial issues and
even
why we are all here in the first place. "Faith" has an enormous affect
on how
people think and act world wide . If that isn't serious evidence of
something,
I don't know what is.

For those of us that lack it, we may not understand it. Doesn't mean it
doesn't
exist. I tend not to ridicule or attempt to destroy in others
something that I don't
have or understand. You tend to demonstrate otherwise.



Faith, as it is being discussed here, is not serious evidence of
anything beyond belief.

I don't give a damn if the "faithful" believe in the easter bunny, santa
claus, jesus or punxsutawney phil. The problems arise when such
believers try to force their "faith" and their religiously based beliefs
onto non-believers or those who believe differently. That is happening
with increasing frequency and nastiness in this country.



Do you feel intimidated by the Easter bunny. People offering to share
information about their faith is far less dangerous than saying you must
pay for the healthcare of people who won't work to take care of
themselves. Far less dangerous than a powerful person saying "Next year
I'll have a lot more flexibility to do whatever I want to the USA". Far
less dangerous than government holding hands with unions. On and on and
on...............

On 7/18/12 8:30 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
...

On 7/18/12 1:57 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 7/17/12 8:53 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jul 17, 6:35 pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 7/17/12 7:08 PM, Tim wrote:

On Jul 17, 10:48 am, thumper wrote:
On 7/17/2012 5:45 AM, Tim wrote:

And what marvels me is those who feel that if science can't prove
it,
then there is (nor can not be ) any other explanation.

Undoubtedly there are *many* things that science will never "prove".
That doesn't make supernatural explanations valid.

You're right. but "supernatural explanations" shouldn't be discounted
because of such.

Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

I am. Why should I not be? I'm not discounting science, but I'm also
not discounting anything supernatural or divine. No Harry, I'm not a
close minded person as you seem to like to paint Christians to be. in
fact, I'd think I'd ;like to be considered open-minded. Not choosing
only one side.

That to me is irrational.




There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support "the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

--------------------------------------------------------

There is, Harry and it's very serious. There are millions and
millions of
people who support and demonstrate it everyday. It can be summed
up in a single word.

Faith.

Not all have it. You obviously don't. I don't. But that doesn't mean
it doesn't exist.


"Faith" isn't serious evidence.

------------------------------------------------

If "Faith" isn't serious evidence of something, what are you
complaining about?
For those who have embraced it, it is the most significant cause of
millions upon
millions of other people's lifestyles, views on controversial issues and
even
why we are all here in the first place. "Faith" has an enormous affect
on how
people think and act world wide . If that isn't serious evidence of
something,
I don't know what is.

For those of us that lack it, we may not understand it. Doesn't mean it
doesn't
exist. I tend not to ridicule or attempt to destroy in others
something that I don't
have or understand. You tend to demonstrate otherwise.




I have no interest in "destroying," as it were, the faith others have in
religious beliefs. I'm not standing in a pulpit anywhere telling people
not to believe, nor am I trying to get legislation passed outlawing
religious belief. My issue with religion is mainly with the efforts
believers make (especially fundamentalists) to shove their beliefs down
the throats of those who believe differently or not at all.

If the "religious" simply kept their attempts to control within their
flock, I'd pretty much ignore them. But they don't...they're poisoning
everyone's well with overt hatred of those they don't like or perfectly
legal activities of which they don't approve.

Frankly, I would support efforts to remove the tax exemptions from any
religious organizations or surrogate organizations that are actively
engaged in political activities that go beyond lobbying for help for the
hungry, the homeless, the poor, the sick, et cetera.

"X ` Man" wrote in message ...


Goodness...and I thought you were at least near rational.

There isn't even the slightest bit of serious evidence to support
"the
supernatural" or "the divine." Nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

I have no interest in "destroying," as it were, the faith others
have in religious beliefs. I'm not standing in a pulpit anywhere
telling people not to believe
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Your pulpit is rec.boats. Sorry. Couldn't resist.